Who moves now after johnny hockey signed??

[Columbus Jack]

Hey, as I said, I respect your opinion I just don't happen to agree with it and, honestly, your list of 4 seems to contradict itself.

1. We have a glut of players who need ice time? Certainly true but are you looking to give older players ice time? I mean he's 21...
2. While his skills are unique, you're not convinced it's what the team needs? Are we looking for generic skill sets to play with more ice time? (this is not meant to be dickish, I just don't understand)
3. He can actually return something of value? OK, do we need more young players or prospects? His salary isn't enough to get us any cap space and any skill set we might acquire that is better/different/valuable, is likely to cost more putting us in a worse predicament. If we're moving him for a lottery pick, does that help?
4. Phase in the next wave? I mean, he's 21. Can he not be part of the current wave AND the next wave? He's on a bridge deal already and if it's not any better in 2-3 years, then we have the next wave.

Again, I'm not trying to be a jerk but this just doesn't make sense in my head. You seem to be focused on the new shiny toys that have done and shown nothing or next to nothing at the minor league level let alone NHL. Believe me, I'm very excited about Ceulemans, Jiricek, Mateychuk, Blankeburg, among others on the back end but I guess I just see more in Boqvist than those of you that feel these others are a better option. He has his warts but I'm not sure they are bigger/worse than any others. You said it yourself, he has a unique skill set. My goodness if he can pick up his own end even just a little we would regret (in my opinion) moving him.

It's cool, again, I just disagree.

I could not agree more.

Boqvist for me has just as high as of a ceiling as any of those other guys. He's 21. Does anyone remember how upset Hawks fans were when Boqvist got traded here? The whole team was an absolute tire fire defensively. I'm going to bank on Boqvist bouncing back strong and being a big piece for us next year.

He is incredibly gifted offensively and I expect him to break out this year.

 

[cslebn]

I could not agree more.

Boqvist for me has just as high as of a ceiling as any of those other guys. He's 21. Does anyone remember how upset Hawks fans were when Boqvist got traded here? The whole team was an absolute tire fire defensively. I'm going to bank on Boqvist bouncing back strong and being a big piece for us next year.

He is incredibly gifted offensively and I expect him to break out this year.

Also @Xoggz22

My question isn't if he can or more points up. Can he box out, win board battles and crease battles? I may be old fashioned but the D that seem critical, the Toews, Slavins, etc can do this things. That's where my concern is.

 

[Xoggz22]

Also @Xoggz22

My question isn't if he can or more points up. Can he box out, win board battles and crease battles? I may be old fashioned but the D that seem critical, the Toews, Slavins, etc can do this things. That's where my concern is.

All good. I'm old school as well but also adhere to the adage that D does take time to develop and in some cases European/Scandinavian D tend to need to build strength more than North Americans. Not true for all but I think it's a little easier (maybe longer) to pick up that aspect than to gain the skill, and IQ (which I happen to think Boqvist has a lot of). We'll see what happens. Just a player I like and think has a big time career in front of him. HOping with CBJ

 

[CBJx614]

The reasons I’m willing to dump him are
1. We have a glut of players that need ice time
2. While his skills are unique (and they are), I’m not convinced it is what the team needs
3. He can actually return something of value
4. Adding to #3 that would possibly allow us to phase the next wave in better (a player on an ELC or bridge as our next wave gets raises)

It’s exactly the 2 way play why I value Blankenburg higher. The funny thing is I halfway expect to see Bean next to Werenski again.

@majormajor it’s you me and Bus plus some others I think

Mostly the same could be said of Werenski in his rookie season.

Also @Xoggz22

My question isn't if he can or more points up. Can he box out, win board battles and crease battles? I may be old fashioned but the D that seem critical, the Toews, Slavins, etc can do this things. That's where my concern is.

Same here

 

[Viqsi]

Voracek’s cap hit is 8,250,000 for 22/23 season and also same for 23/24 season is why. Nyquist is 5,500,000 for 22/23 season and then his contract is up so that would free up money for 23/24 season when other players will be getting raises. Voracek cap hit alone should free up enough cap space to sign Laine.

Except that we're paying a whole hell of a lot more to move Voracek's contract, whereas Nyquist's might be available to move out without paying anything.

 

[traffic cone]

Except that we're paying a whole hell of a lot more to move Voracek's contract, whereas Nyquist's might be available to move out without paying anything.

Is it totally out of the question that someone could want Voracek for just future considerations (kinda like Pacioretty)?

I know it may not be.

But if it would, it would give the Jackets all kinds of options.

First get Laine signed. And after that there would be space left even to add a D. Then with Nyquist’s contract expiring after this season you could extend Gavrikov etc.

 

[majormajor]

Is it totally out of the question that someone could want Voracek for just future considerations (kinda like Pacioretty)?

I know it may not be.

But if it would, it would give the Jackets all kinds of options.

First get Laine signed. And after that there would be space left even to add a D. Then with Nyquist’s contract expiring after this season you could extend Gavrikov etc.

With two years left, yes I think it is out of the question. Maybe if he has another strong year sometime will want the last year.

 

[BB88]

Is it totally out of the question that someone could want Voracek for just future considerations (kinda like Pacioretty)?

I know it may not be.

But if it would, it would give the Jackets all kinds of options.

First get Laine signed. And after that there would be space left even to add a D. Then with Nyquist’s contract expiring after this season you could extend Gavrikov etc.

Pacioretty has 1 year left

 

[traffic cone]

Good points.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

Trade Bean and Bemstrom + for picks. Sign cheap veteran defenseman for third pair/extra (such as Kris Russell or Del Zotto if he hadn’t signed in florida, or anyone reliable to play 15 minutes a night) to one year deal. Boom, you’re about 1-2M under the cap. If it doesn’t work out, trade Nyquist at the deadline, and then you have a full slate of picks going into 2023 draft plus two or three more.

By trading Nyquist now for no value, we would be losing one our most productive and experienced players for nothing, and still risk losing Bemstrom and potentially Foudy on waivers anyway. While I like him, I think Bean has been passed by Peeke, Boqvist, Blankenburg and Gudbranson, and Nyquist is still capable of playing in a top 6 role + 1st PK + 1st/2nd PP.

Both players are unlikely to be as high in the depth chart in 23-24, but I think we can get value for both instead of losing something for nothing.

 

[DJA]

Trade Bean and Bemstrom + for picks. Sign cheap veteran defenseman for third pair/extra (such as Kris Russell or Del Zotto if he hadn’t signed in florida, or anyone reliable to play 15 minutes a night) to one year deal. Boom, you’re about 1-2M under the cap. If it doesn’t work out, trade Nyquist at the deadline, and then you have a full slate of picks going into 2023 draft plus two or three more.

By trading Nyquist now for no value, we would be losing one our most productive and experienced players for nothing, and still risk losing Bemstrom and potentially Foudy on waivers anyway. While I like him, I think Bean has been passed by Peeke, Boqvist, Blankenburg and Gudbranson, and Nyquist is still capable of playing in a top 6 role + 1st PK + 1st/2nd PP.

Both players are unlikely to be as high in the depth chart in 23-24, but I think we can get value for both instead of losing something for nothing.

Trading Bean and Bemstrom wouldn’t create enough cap space to sign Laine, let alone another dman. Bemstrom doesn’t even have a contract at the moment and Bean only counts for $2.3M. We have about $2.3m in space currently. That would give us about $4.6M to sign Laine and another dman, which obviously isn’t happening.

 

[KJ Dangler]

Also @Xoggz22

My question isn't if he can or more points up. Can he box out, win board battles and crease battles? I may be old fashioned but the D that seem critical, the Toews, Slavins, etc can do this things. That's where my concern is.

You realize that he’s 21, undersized , playing really his first full season in the NHL, and playing the hardest position in hockey , right ?

 

[KJ Dangler]

Boquist isn’t going anywhere , Bean and Gus are highly probable to be traded . Not sure how people are making judgements on Boquist , Chinakov in really their first full season . You guys realize that the NHL is a huge step up in competition right ? Boquist was on pace for 17g if he plays full season , and he’s 21 . Ofcourse he will improve defensively this yr .. game will start to slow down for him . Defense is the hardest position to break into . Here was his scouting report when he was drafted 8th overall …

A dynamic offensive defenceman that can carry plays with the puck on his stick. A highly mobile and nimble skater that moves with fluidity, balance, and confidence. Utilizes an active stick and creates turnovers frequently. Could be more proactive in his own end, but has shown progression in understanding lanes and reading unfolding plays; most of his best defensive work comes through the neutral zone, as there is a lot less time and space to work with, and it is in those moments that Boqvist shines.

Offensively, Boqvist is electric; he has the toolbox of a top line forward. Slick puckhandling ability paired with excellent vision and positional awareness makes him a dangerous threat every time he is on the ice. He also takes advantage of the attention and bodies he draws towards himself in creating space for teammates. All-in-all, Adam Boqvist is a complete offensive defenseman who knows how to get the puck from point A to the back of the net, and can make it happen all by himself. (Curtis Joe, EP 2017

 

[cslebn]

You realize that he’s 21, undersized , playing really his first full season in the NHL, and playing the hardest position in hockey , right ?

First season? He’s basically played 3 half seasons….

4/28/22	Lower Body
3/1/22	Upper Body
1/17/22	COVID-19
12/10/21	Upper Body
10/25/21	Undisclosed
4/27/21	Wrist
4/15/21	Concussion Protocol
1/25/21	Health Protocols
3/11/20	Concussion
3/6/20	Upper Body
2/8/20	Right Shoulder
12/23/19	Upper body

 

[KJ Dangler]

First season? He’s basically played 3 half seasons….

4/28/22	Lower Body
3/1/22	Upper Body
1/17/22	COVID-19
12/10/21	Upper Body
10/25/21	Undisclosed
4/27/21	Wrist
4/15/21	Concussion Protocol
1/25/21	Health Protocols
3/11/20	Concussion
3/6/20	Upper Body
2/8/20	Right Shoulder
12/23/19	Upper body

Yup.. covid was one of them , he’s 21 … last season was his first full season as a regular . He’s also what , 170lbs during that time ? Imagine has he builds muscle , puts on weight , this changes

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

Trading Bean and Bemstrom wouldn’t create enough cap space to sign Laine, let alone another dman. Bemstrom doesn’t even have a contract at the moment and Bean only counts for $2.3M. We have about $2.3m in space currently. That would give us about $4.6M to sign Laine and another dman, which obviously isn’t happening.

The $2.3M in space showing on capfriendly right now is based on a 27 person roster that has Tarasov, Gaunce, Meyer, Bayreuther, Danforth on it. Send those down and we have about $7.5M in space.

 

[Marioesque]

It's a cruel numbers game, Bean and Nyquist would make the most sense but it might also depend who the market wants. I would hate to lose Gus but there is no market for Jake with the remaining contract so not too many options.

 

[DJA]

The $2.3M in space showing on capfriendly right now is based on a 27 person roster that has Tarasov, Gaunce, Meyer, Bayreuther, Danforth on it. Send those down and we have about $7.5M in space.

A 21-man roster isn’t going to fly so you need to add 2 more contracts to the roster.

 

[Marioesque]

The $2.3M in space showing on capfriendly right now is based on a 27 person roster that has Tarasov, Gaunce, Meyer, Bayreuther, Danforth on it. Send those down and we have about $7.5M in space.

The $2.3M in space showing on capfriendly right now is based on a 27 person roster that has Tarasov, Gaunce, Meyer, Bayreuther, Danforth on it. Send those down and we have about $7.5M in space.

That's good information, thank you.

So it would be enough to just get rid of maybe Bemstrom or Bean and already afford Laine.

 

[DJA]

That's good information, thank you.

So it would be enough to just get rid of maybe Bemstrom or Bean and already afford Laine.

No, it wouldn’t.

 

[CoachWithNoTeam]

A 21-man roster isn’t going to fly so you need to add 2 more contracts to the roster.

Agreed. But it could be Foudy and Bayreuther as the extras though for less than 1.5M in cap. Either way, I think we are closer to $2M over rather than the $5-6M

We could just send everyone down and ask a couple of the monsters to live in Mansfield.

edit: Or just signing Laine and Bemstrom brings it to 23.

 

[Xoggz22]

Trading Bean and Bemstrom wouldn’t create enough cap space to sign Laine, let alone another dman. Bemstrom doesn’t even have a contract at the moment and Bean only counts for $2.3M. We have about $2.3m in space currently. That would give us about $4.6M to sign Laine and another dman, which obviously isn’t happening.

We actually have more cap space than that at the moment. Currently our Cap figure includes 27 players due to 3 being on IR (Jenner, Tarasov and Texier) and you can also remove a 4th as the player Laine would replace so from a Cap perspective you can add ~$3.5 -$4M to the pool for available money giving us around $5.5M to $6M below the cap prior to signing Laine. The team will still need some flexibility during the season so moving guy like Nyquist (as we've all discussed ad-nauseum) gives them the space. If they don't care about the space, then it's possible you could move a player like Bean and get enough to fit Laine in but then you are running at the Cap for the season but save Nyquist for a move at the deadline or he's off the books next year giving you the money you need for raises to Tex, Gavrikov and/or Peeke. I don't think it's a situation where it's dump Nyquist for pennies on the dollar. You won't get the dollar but you may be $0.75 for him instead of $0.10

 

[Xoggz22]

A 21-man roster isn’t going to fly so you need to add 2 more contracts to the roster.

27 - 4 = 23 by my count. Tarasov, Meyer, Bayreuther and Gaunce (~$3.25M) can all be put on waivers or sent to the AHL, The add one more to replace (say Chinakov @ $925K- no waivers) when Laine comes in. That's 23 on the roster (Not sure how you got 21) but there is more room available than just dumping Nyquist. Moving Bean would be enough (technically) for a contract to Laine of around ~$8.2M AAV with a roster of 22 but really no cap space. It can be done but certainly isn't ideal. I think that's what Jarmo is looking at. We can be in a tough spot but may be able to avoid a very bad deal (dump a good player) with some of these other contracts.

You could see guys like Chinakov, Marchenko and even Johnson start the year in Cleveland as they work deals. Wouldn't be the worst thing and if it keeps us from losing Foudy, Bemstrom and Nyquist for nothing, I'd support that. LIkely a short term proposition but is just part of the game.

 

[DJA]

We actually have more cap space than that at the moment. Currently our Cap figure includes 27 players due to 3 being on IR (Jenner, Tarasov and Texier) and you can also remove a 4th as the player Laine would replace so from a Cap perspective you can add ~$3.5 -$4M to the pool for available money giving us around $5.5M to $6M below the cap prior to signing Laine. The team will still need some flexibility during the season so moving guy like Nyquist (as we've all discussed ad-nauseum) gives them the space. If they don't care about the space, then it's possible you could move a player like Bean and get enough to fit Laine in but then you are running at the Cap for the season but save Nyquist for a move at the deadline or he's off the books next year giving you the money you need for raises to Tex, Gavrikov and/or Peeke. I don't think it's a situation where it's dump Nyquist for pennies on the dollar. You won't get the dollar but you may be $0.75 for him instead of $0.10

That’s a lot of words to say we’d still be over the cap, which was my original point, so thanks for agreeing with me I guess? Trading Bean and Bemstrom + signing another dman (while still signing Laine) isn’t feasible (which is what the original post was advocating. I’d suggest you go back and read it. )

 

[DJA]

27 - 4 = 23 by my count. Tarasov, Meyer, Bayreuther and Gaunce (~$3.25M) can all be put on waivers or sent to the AHL, The add one more to replace (say Chinakov @ $925K- no waivers) when Laine comes in. That's 23 on the roster (Not sure how you got 21but there is more room available than just dumping Nyquist. Moving Bean would be enough (technically) for a contract to Laine of around ~$8.2M AAV with a roster of 22 but really no cap space. It can be done but certainly isn't ideal. I think that's what Jarmo is looking at. We can be in a tough spot but may be able to avoid a very bad deal (dump a good player) with some of these other contracts.

You could see guys like Chinakov, Marchenko and even Johnson start the year in Cleveland as they work deals. Wouldn't be the worst thing and if it keeps us from losing Foudy, Bemstrom and Nyquist for nothing, I'd support that. LIkely a short term proposition but is just part of the game.

The poster I was responding to posted a chart from Capfriendly with a roster of only 21. That’s how I “got” 21. It’s easy to say we have cap space with a roster of 21 or 22 but that’s not how the real world works.

Also, if you don’t want to lose Bemstrom “for nothing”, he requires a contract, which requires additional cap space.