Who is this years whipping boy?

[57special]

seems like Coyle is running away with this, though Pateryn is showing potential. The thing with Coyle is that he is a RHS 3rd liner who can play C, and is paid 3.2M. He has reasonable speed, and excellent size and strength. He occasionally flashes top 6 skill, but then that disappears and he goes back to what he is. Time to accept it, and appreciate him for what he is.

3,2 M is appropriate payment for what he is bringing to the table. Some would say that he is underpaid.

Nino, OTOH, looks overpaid. He is a LHS winger who is also inconsistent, and has been playing over the past year like a 3rd liner. Don't see how he gets a pass, yet Coyle gets ragged on incessantly. Both are disappointing, in my mind. Bjugstadian. I think the expectation just a couple of years ago was that Granlund, Nino, and Coyle would lead the new generation of forwards, with a bit of help from Zucker.

 

[TaLoN]

seems like Coyle is running away with this, though Pateryn is showing potential. The thing with Coyle is that he is a RHS 3rd liner who can play C, and is paid 3.2M. He has reasonable speed, and excellent size and strength. He occasionally flashes top 6 skill, but then that disappears and he goes back to what he is. Time to accept it, and appreciate him for what he is.

3,2 M is appropriate payment for what he is bringing to the table. Some would say that he is underpaid.

Nino, OTOH, looks overpaid. He is a LHS winger who is also inconsistent, and has been playing over the past year like a 3rd liner. Don't see how he gets a pass, yet Coyle gets ragged on incessantly. Both are disappointing, in my mind. Bjugstadian. I think the expectation just a couple of years ago was that Granlund, Nino, and Coyle would lead the new generation of forwards, with a bit of help from Zucker.

I haven't seen anyone give Nino a pass... not sure where you're getting that idea.

 

[57special]

I am a Brodin admirer, but I would hope that his recent play has dispelled any notions of him being a problem. I think he is still adjusting to having Spurgeon as a partner, but it must be nice having a guy who is as good, if not better than him defensively as a partner. Hasn't happened since Suter way back when.

 

[chchelseII]

Winning seems to be hiding the lack of effectiveness from too many of our players, but certainly, after last night's game, JEE has risen to the top as this year's whipping boy. Like many of his teammates, especially Coyle, Nino, and Zucker, he seems to have no ability to control the puck. You can't make plays if you can't catch a pass and keep the puck on your stick. This is why I believe Zucker is so ineffective on the PP, he never seems to be able to handle the puck cleanly. As for JEE, his confidence looks completely shot. I would send him down at this point, maybe for the rest of the year, regardless of how he does, hoping he gets his game back.

 

[57special]

JEE is too young for me to call him a whipping boy, though his game, or lack of it, is frustrating. Completely agree with the Coyle, Nino, and (reluctantly), Zucker. The latter can be such a good finisher when he's on... certainly not on his game now.

Is this team ever screwed if we don't re-sign Staal, and Koivu rides off into the sunset. Sticking Granlund back at C might be a disaster, Coyle seems to be regressing, and Ek looks lost.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

JEE is too young for me to call him a whipping boy, though his game, or lack of it, is frustrating. Completely agree with the Coyle, Nino, and (reluctantly), Zucker. The latter can be such a good finisher when he's on... certainly not on his game now.

Is this team ever screwed if we don't re-sign Staal, and Koivu rides off into the sunset. Sticking Granlund back at C might be a disaster, Coyle seems to be regressing, and Ek looks lost.

Perhaps he's lost because he was suddenly put at first line center? He made a couple errors sure, but they keep bouncing him around. His shot was actually a dangerous chance. We'll see more if he gets decent linemates and more familiarity. Guys with zero shots: Coyle, Granlund, Koivu, Brodin...

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Zucker/Ek/Nino was not our first line last night, and as linemates go, they should be "decent" enough for a guy that has proven nothing.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Zucker/Ek/Nino was not our first line last night, and as linemates go, they should be "decent" enough for a guy that has proven nothing.

Yes, this was one game. The narrative was that he was "replacing" Staal. In fact, only Brown played fewer minutes than JEE. Not sure how that's supposed to help him score. He's still only marginally less effective than Koivu.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Yes, this was one game. The narrative was that he was "replacing" Staal. In fact, only Brown played fewer minutes than JEE. Not sure how that's supposed to help him score. He's still only marginally less effective than Koivu.

Except Koivu had an assist on the tying goal and didn't have a hand in 2 of the goals against. I think that's more than marginal.

Ek got the minutes he deserved last night.

 

[TaLoN]

Perhaps he's lost because he was suddenly put at first line center? He made a couple errors sure, but they keep bouncing him around. His shot was actually a dangerous chance. We'll see more if he gets decent linemates and more familiarity. Guys with zero shots: Coyle, Granlund, Koivu, Brodin...

He was 3rd line last night. Coyle and Greenway were Staal's linemates prior to illness, Fehr took his spot, JEE stayed on the 3rd line with a demoted Nino and Zucker.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

Except Koivu had an assist on the tying goal and didn't have a hand in 2 of the goals against. I think that's more than marginal.

Ek got the minutes he deserved last night.

ok, coach

 

[Bruce Granville]

Except Koivu had an assist on the tying goal and didn't have a hand in 2 of the goals against. I think that's more than marginal.

Ek got the minutes he deserved last night.

Nevermind, strip the C!!11eleven!!

 

[TaLoN]

ok, coach

Bruce said basically the same in Russo's gamer.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

ok, coach

I'm sorry. I don't hate the kid. I very much dislike the way the organization has handled him, but I don't hate him.

We all have "our guys" on the team and he's one of yours. I get it.

But the fact is that he's a completely ineffective offensive NHL player right now. And if you're ineffective offensively, then you sure as hell better not be costing goals at the other end. And he did. Same goes for guys like Zucker and Nino as well, but you can't cut everybody's minutes and they at least have a little bit of NHL equity. He had a chance to play well with supposed legit top 6 NHLers and he fumbled it. Disappointing, but it's what happened.

 

[Saga of the Elk]

I understand that Koivu shuts guys down. I'm a fan of Koivu, and really the 'strip the C' stuff you see is a bit silly (often intended to be so). But again: 5v5 goals the last two seasons: JEE - 5, Koivu - 8. JEE needs a defined role where he can do what he does best: forecheck, disrupt, win board battles, shoot.

 

[Wabit]

I miss the days Foligno when was the whipping boy due to the rest of the FWDs all being better than him.

 

[TaLoN]

I understand that Koivu shuts guys down. I'm a fan of Koivu, and really the 'strip the C' stuff you see is a bit silly (often intended to be so). But again: 5v5 goals the last two seasons: JEE - 5, Koivu - 8. JEE needs a defined role where he can do what he does best: forecheck, disrupt, win board battles, shoot.

Neither player is a goal scorer, but goal scoring is only one aspect. Koivu is more than marginally better at every other aspect of the game.

Hence Koivu has 8pts, JEE has none.

JEE needs to go down to Iowa to develop.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I understand that Koivu shuts guys down. I'm a fan of Koivu, and really the 'strip the C' stuff you see is a bit silly (often intended to be so). But again: 5v5 goals the last two seasons: JEE - 5, Koivu - 8. JEE needs a defined role where he can do what he does best: forecheck, disrupt, win board battles, shoot.

So... a 4th line winger role?

 

[nt3005]

I think Nino has looked atrocious. He is 100% the player I am going with for "whipping boy"

 

[Wabit]

I'm all for sticking Nino on the Foligno/Fehr line. He'll get goal with them. I really think that scoring his first goal will serve as a pressure relief valve and his game will be fine after that.

After Nino scores then put JEE with them and keep him there for awhile. He needs stability more than anything right now. Mixing and matching him with 2 other FWDs that are struggling to find their games isn't helping anyone.

 

[Bazeek]

I'm all for sticking Nino on the Foligno/Fehr line. He'll get goal with them. I really think that scoring his first goal will serve as a pressure relief valve and his game will be fine after that.

After Nino scores then put JEE with them and keep him there for awhile. He needs stability more than anything right now. Mixing and matching him with 2 other FWDs that are struggling to find their games isn't helping anyone.

It's perplexing that this actually makes a degree of sense to me right now.

 

[chchelseII]

I'm one of JEE's biggest supporters, but his demeanor is troublesome. Whenever they show him on the bench, he's sitting apart from his teammates looking uncomfortable. Lack of confidence can not only lead to poor play on the ice, but also a mindset where you don't believe you're good enough, an idea that the other players blame you or expect you to do more, the thought you don't belong, etc etc. This is just speculation on my part, but he appears so uncomfortable, to me. I wonder how many friends he has on the team, and how his off ice life is going.

 

[57special]

Perhaps he's lost because he was suddenly put at first line center? He made a couple errors sure, but they keep bouncing him around. His shot was actually a dangerous chance. We'll see more if he gets decent linemates and more familiarity. Guys with zero shots: Coyle, Granlund, Koivu, Brodin...

Brodin rang one off the post that had the goalie completely beat, and Koivu had a great pass to Dumba on his goal.

Check that, he had two assists last night, on the 3 goals that we scored. WTF? Is he supposed to be involved in all 3?

 

[Wabit]

It's perplexing that this actually makes a degree of sense to me right now.

A few years ago they were sticking whoever was struggling with Pommer/Haula (both better than Foligno/Fehr) for a game or three just to ease the pressure a little. Since the 3rd line players are all currently lost try it with the 4th line guys that are playing well/consistent. Plus you can let Nino (or whoever) cheat a little bit towards the o-zone with Foligno/Fehr play their d-zone game.

 

[Bazeek]

A few years ago they were sticking whoever was struggling with Pommer/Haula (both better than Foligno/Fehr) for a game or three just to ease the pressure a little. Since the 3rd line players are all currently lost try it with the 4th line guys that are playing well/consistent. Plus you can let Nino (or whoever) cheat a little bit towards the o-zone with Foligno/Fehr play their d-zone game.

No, I get it. Foligno had at least one cut to the net last night that looked like vintage Nino; he's playing very well lately. He and Fehr have been two of our most consistent forwards and while I haven't looked at the numbers, they seem to spend a lot of time in the offensive zone. It's just super weird to say all of that.