Canadiens1958
Registered User
Jean Beliveau
After Bobby Orr, Jean Beliveau brought the greatest offensive variety to the rink. Scorer or playmaker, he could fill both roles.Also after Harvey left the Canadiens, Beliveau could lead the rush from the defensive end and he was the only one from the players you listed that could generate offense from the forecheck on a regular basis. Lemieux did not have the last two attributes.
A few comments about the other players.
Bobby Hull. Started his career as a center then moved to LW. Outside of his seasons with Bill Hay and Murray Balfour he did not have ideal linemates while in the NHL.
Phil Esposito. Blessed with advantageous teammates - Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita in Chicago, Bobby Orr in Boston whose talents catered to his strength, playing the slot. Granted no one played the slot as well as Phil Esposito.
Maurice Richard. First post Red Line scorer. Until Gordie Howe matured and developed a complete game, playmaking was not part of the lead wingers profile. See Charlie Conacher's stats:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/c/conacch01.html
BTW Charlie Conacher should be considered. When healthy he dominated the NHL in goal scoring during the thirties.
Jaromir Jagr. Defined by his era and player pool.
I thought that as well. I think we need to entertain the idea that Orr may not be in the top 4 in this category. Let's face it, Orr did everything elite, and that's why he's among the top 4 players of all-time, but if you isolate the offense-only, is it possible to put a defenseman in here? Even Orr?
Impossible. He won his only scoring title by a mere two points. If you throw in Forsberg you may as well throw in Lindros. Neither belongs.
Other than Gretzky, you can easily make an argument that Richard is the most clutch player in NHL history. Who else is arguably better in that category? Patrick Roy perhaps? As far as I am concerned it is that trifecta first and then the rest. However, the assists for Richard are too low for him to be #5 offensive player of all-time.
The OP can be forgiven for not including him originally. There is a very intriguing argument for him to be #5 all-time here. First off, let's take the general consensus 5 next best offensive players after the "big 4".
Top 10 scoring finishes:
Beliveau - 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3, 3, 4, 6, 8, 8, 9 (12 in total)
Richard - 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 (11)
Hull - 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9 (11)
Esposito - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 7, 9 (10)
Jagr - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 5, 6, 8, 9 (11)
Wow, talk about tight in that regards. In total, Beliveau has the most top 10 finishes. Esposito and Jagr have the most scoring titles. Esposito has 8 top 3 finishes. Hull has 6. Everyone else has 7. Richard has the most top 5 finishes with 9. The next best is everyone else with 8.
So since that is such a small discrepancy between all the players then let's look at something else. Who was the best goal scorer out of the bunch? Hull probably. By a wide margin? Not much, but my choice as #1 of that group. Who was the worst goal scorer? Jagr maybe and that says something. Who was the best playmaker? Beliveau with the next best being Jagr. The worst? Richard?
So what does this mean? Well I think in order to judge you have to take stats into account and your vision as well. With our eyes who was the best all around offensive talent out of these guys? Does Hull's goal scoring make up for that fact that he wasn't the best playmaker out of these guys? Does Espo's skating hold him back a bit? Does Richard's lack of playmaking hold him back? I think it does, which is why if I had to pick I would choose either one of Jagr or Beliveau.
Put it this way, these guys did everything special when it came to offense. Jagr was a human highlight reel and people forget one thing about Beliveau, watch old tapes of him from back in the day and tell me that he doesn't remind you in a way of Mario, or let's put it this way, Mario reminds you of Beliveau. Now, Mario did it better but Beliveau looked special out there as well. He was like a machine out there. He could beat you so many ways.
Jagr is a close second in my mind in this group and then I would have to throw Hull behind him.
After Bobby Orr, Jean Beliveau brought the greatest offensive variety to the rink. Scorer or playmaker, he could fill both roles.Also after Harvey left the Canadiens, Beliveau could lead the rush from the defensive end and he was the only one from the players you listed that could generate offense from the forecheck on a regular basis. Lemieux did not have the last two attributes.
A few comments about the other players.
Bobby Hull. Started his career as a center then moved to LW. Outside of his seasons with Bill Hay and Murray Balfour he did not have ideal linemates while in the NHL.
Phil Esposito. Blessed with advantageous teammates - Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita in Chicago, Bobby Orr in Boston whose talents catered to his strength, playing the slot. Granted no one played the slot as well as Phil Esposito.
Maurice Richard. First post Red Line scorer. Until Gordie Howe matured and developed a complete game, playmaking was not part of the lead wingers profile. See Charlie Conacher's stats:
http://www.hockey-reference.com/players/c/conacch01.html
BTW Charlie Conacher should be considered. When healthy he dominated the NHL in goal scoring during the thirties.
Jaromir Jagr. Defined by his era and player pool.