A guy who hasn't sniffed the playoffs has no business in this conversation. I don't think McDavid should be automatically be assumed #1 either. Kuch, Mack and Drai have all been just as good if not better the last couple years. The top 4 is pretty unanimous right now, but extremely close between them.
Who is the 2nd best player currently?
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A guy who hasn't sniffed the playoffs has no business in this conversation. I don't think McDavid should be automatically be assumed #1 either. Kuch, Mack and Drai have all been just as good if not better the last couple years. The top 4 is pretty unanimous right now, but extremely close between them.
The90
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He’s a top 10 forward whether his team wins or not. Not sure I’d put him conversation for #2 though.
GOALOFSSON
Game Changer
Why not though? It's obvious if there was a poll asking whose the best player McDavid 100% wins by a huge majority. Unanimous? No, very few things are, but still it's pretty obvious. Asking who #2 is is the much more interesting topic.
I agree with your top 4 (tempted to lump Crosby in there too - but i understand questions since injuries really impeded him last year). The one thing McDavid has on all of those guys though is:
Kucherov, career year, way above everyone else....except McDavid, who hung with him. Finished second, but quite close in scoring race. Mack and Drai much farther back.
Drai, career year, way above everyone else....except McDavid, who hung with him. Finished second, but quite close in scoring. Mack and Kuch further back
McDavid wins Art Ross and probably sweeps award in 2018, but his team misses playoffs, so he doesn't get votes. Still above all 3 other guys in scoring race.
McDavid is no Gretzky nor Lemieux where he'll sweep the awards and scoring race every year. But others will have ups and downs - and he's always there at the top. That makes him #1 until proven otherwise.
I think if you have Drai repeat last year's success (again topping McDavid), or Kucherov repeating his 2019 season (and again topping McDavid) - both would be in conversation for #1. But until then, it's McDavid.
Fatass
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Kairi Zaide
Unforgiven
My post was mostly regarding the value of individual hardware in these discussions (although I did bold "Stanley cup" in your post that I quoted alongside them)
I'm not making any point regarding who's the 2nd best player, for the record. I was just reading this thread, stumbled upon your post, and wanted to address the bolded part (and only that).
For the record, if you go through my posting history (which I'm highly recommending you to not do because you'd have to filter out a lot of Lounge spam) I have no problem defending my opinions and elaborating on them with unreadable walls of text. \o/
Slapshot Sultan
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It's Kucherov. Its like people forgot his 128 point season in 2019. That's 30 points higher than Macs best. No matter the circumstances, that's huge. Now lead the playoffs with 30+.
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Best players win best player awards. McDavid hasn't won one in the past 2 seasons. So he can't be the unquestioned best player.
This whole concept of hockey fans and Canadian media claiming "I am the arbiter of best player regardless of who actually was the best player, and regardless of what actually happened" invites all sorts of nonsense. It entertains daydreams, but proports to give it the legitimacy of reality.
What if there isn't always a clear cut best player? Must we declare one anyway? Are ties disallowed? Are ties in value non-indicative of reality in all cases? What if a full season, let alone 2, is a good enough sample to establish a new best player? What if there are a handful of players that are all close in value, and the distinctions between them are so small as to be arbitrary, or well within the margin of error in terms of predictions? What if those margins are tiny, but the hockey media is dramatically exaggerating its own precision?
This whole concept of hockey fans and Canadian media claiming "I am the arbiter of best player regardless of who actually was the best player, and regardless of what actually happened" invites all sorts of nonsense. It entertains daydreams, but proports to give it the legitimacy of reality.
What if there isn't always a clear cut best player? Must we declare one anyway? Are ties disallowed? Are ties in value non-indicative of reality in all cases? What if a full season, let alone 2, is a good enough sample to establish a new best player? What if there are a handful of players that are all close in value, and the distinctions between them are so small as to be arbitrary, or well within the margin of error in terms of predictions? What if those margins are tiny, but the hockey media is dramatically exaggerating its own precision?
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Fatass
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And he led his team to the Cup. Best players win Cups.
qqaz
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I'll say Crosby. I'm still blown away by the guy pretty regularly.
I don't get why people are sleeping on Sid, Malkin, and Ovie in almost every thread. You'd think they were 60 point guys who are 39 yo, judging by how much credit and attention they get here on HF.
I don't get why people are sleeping on Sid, Malkin, and Ovie in almost every thread. You'd think they were 60 point guys who are 39 yo, judging by how much credit and attention they get here on HF.
Maybe Eichel is just underrated
If only this made sense
How does it not make sense ? He's been in the league for what 5 years, and hasn't even come close to making the playoffs. Not to mention how much better Dra, Mack and Kuch have been. Top 10 he has a case, top 2 absolutely not.
Honestly nobody outside the top 4 selections should have a vote. As it stands today, it's quite clearly McDavid/Mackinnon/Draisaitl/Kuch/Crosby as the top 5. I have Crosby firmly at 5, rest are interchangeable.
Sidney the Kidney
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That sports hernia injury/surgery might be an issue for Crosby. 2018-19 Crosby and 2019-20 Crosby were night and day different. If he can't return to his 2018-19 form, he's not top 5 at this point.
Mez
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I dont get this love affair with Mackinnon since the pre season playoffs...This should be Kucherov.
Nathaniel Skywalker
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Kucherov scored 128 points then the very next year finished top 10 in scoring and had a playoff high 34 points on Route to a ring. There's a huge argument he is better than McDavid. McDavid seems to be having great trouble establishing himself as the top player in the league
You're spinning it.
Kucherov had 128 points but McDavid had 116 himself - which is 122 if he doesn't miss 4 games. Good for 2nd place.
It's true Kucherov finished top 10 this year, but he was 7th and 25 points behind leader. McDavid was once again second, and if you pace out to 82 games it's 3 points behind leader
Kucherov was great this past playoff - but most people are saying he was only the 3rd best player on his team (Hedman and Point).
There isn't a huge argument that he is better than McDavid. You might argue they're on same tier - but the much more reasonable take is to give McDavid benefit of the doubt because he's more consistent at that level and have him at #1.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
I don't speak for everyone, but I don't think a pure offensive winger that adds little else like Kucherov is a top 5 player, regardless of how good he is offensively. You could make a similar argument for Draisaitl, but I think he has the better argument because he plays center, he at least attempts to play better defense and be more of an all around player, and I also think that some of his poor defensive stats are due to the team he plays for.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
What does the playoffs have to do with who plays better hockey?
Who would be #1 over McDavid?
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
I knew someone would nitpick that. I think there's a difference that goes beyond the advanced stats.
Watching them play, Kucherov is a complete floater, which isn't bad because thats part of his role and he's elite at it.
Tippett isn't putting out Draisaitl in so many important defensive situations if he was a floater or didn't attempt to work hard defensively. Is he good at it? Statistically, no, which should factor into an evaluation of his defense.
But I don't think because his defensive analytics are bad that means he doesn't attempt to play defense. He might just not be very good at it. I'm also not sure thats what it is for Draisaitl. I think his defensive analytics are explainable, and he could be a good or better defensive player for the rest of his career.
