Who do you build around: Draisaitl or Mackinnon?

[The Moose is Loose]

I've made my opinion known on the first page but I'm surprised that people act like there is some massive gap between them defensively.

Look at Draisaitl's defensive impact as center (after January 1st) versus as McDavid's winger (before January 1st). He is significantly better defensively as a center which is pretty logical, its his drafted position, it forces him lower in the zone, and he is "the guy" on his line where as he cheats for offense when he is on McDavid's wing. He is also slightly better offensively at center than on McDavid's wing, passing is his strength and he works better from the middle of the ice rather than off the boards (but this is an aside topic- I'm mostly speaking to the notable difference in defensive play).

He is pretty damn bad defensively as a winger which no one will contest but I think a full year at center could shift this "Draisaitl is terrible defensively" narrative which is only partially true.

Mackinnon is by all means pretty average defensively which is not surprising, he's one of the league premier offensive threats, he's not out there to shutdown opposing lines. Draisaitl is behind him, but looking only at Draisaitl's time as a center, it's not by much.

 

[Raistlin]

You're absolutely right. It's not even close.

One of these two players has the following accolades:
2 x 100-point seasons
1 50-goal season
1 Art Ross Trophy
1 Hart Trophy
1 Ted Lindsay Trophy.

Hint: It's not MacKinnon.

and one of them have a Hart/ArtRoss/Lindsay winner absorbing the opposing team's shutdown pairs.

Look, there is no conspiracy to undermine your superstar player in Edm, we can plainly see he is a great player. He is just not as dominant as this particular player you're comparing him with. I've seen Draisaitl 4 times in person, and MAck 3 times, I came away impressed with Mack every. single. time., he factors in every aspect of offense on a offensive powerhouse, Draisaitl on the other hand just dutifully fills the scoresheet, I've never seen him dominate the way Mackinnon or McDavid did in my 4 viewings. So the question is, who do you build around, IMO, 10 times out of 10 its Mack AINEC. For your information, if the comparison is btw McD and Mack, then it will be much more debatable, all the oil fans defending Drai in droves seem excessive.

 

[GOilers88]

Do you or do you not think that having McDavid on the same team helped Draisaitl last year?

What you keep ignoring is that you can apply this to any player in the league. You seem to think it only applies to Draisaitl.

Did you have Malkin coming down a few rungs when him and Crosby were prime? Since Crosby was the best player in the league and they played on the same team and powerplay, surely that means most of Malkin's numbers were because of Crosby...

Right?

 

[GOilers88]

and one of them have a Hart/ArtRoss/Lindsay winner absorbing the opposing team's shutdown pairs.

Look, there is no conspiracy to undermine your superstar player in Edm, we can plainly see he is a great player. He is just not as dominant as this particular player you're comparing him with. I've seen Draisaitl 4 times in person, and MAck 3 times, I came away impressed with Mack every. single. time., he factors in every aspect of offense on a offensive powerhouse, Draisaitl on the other hand just dutifully fills the scoresheet, I've never seen him dominate the way Mackinnon or McDavid did in my 4 viewings. So the question is, who do you build around, IMO, 10 times out of 10 its Mack AINEC. For your information, if the comparison is btw McD and Mack, then it will be much more debatable, all the oil fans defending Drai in droves seem excessive.

I'm not so much defending Draisaitl as I am calling out stupid, lazy, inconsistent posts. Like I said a number of pages ago I'd take MacK as well. The delusion that somehow there's a chasm between the two and it's all because of McDavid is not only wrong, it's just plain stupid.

How many Oiler HOFers had their numbers pumped because they played on a team with Gretzky? Best player ever. They played on his powerplay. You could stick Gretzky on any team with any players and they'd kill it because it's Gretzky right? Obviously not. So why is this an argument for McDavid and Draisaitl? Why doesn't this illogical bullshit come up when discussing every other elite player in the league? Again, Malkin had the best.player in the league on his team and PP for years. Why do I not recall seeing these same folks hack him down in the same fashion? If that was the consensus and there's posts to back it up I'll gladly stand corrected.

 

[McDNicks17]

They're no McDavid, but are we really going to pretend like MacKinnon has had no help when he's played like 90% of his ice time with Landeskog and Rantanen the past few years?

 

[Duke74]

and one of them have a Hart/ArtRoss/Lindsay winner absorbing the opposing team's shutdown pairs.

Look, there is no conspiracy to undermine your superstar player in Edm, we can plainly see he is a great player. He is just not as dominant as this particular player you're comparing him with. I've seen Draisaitl 4 times in person, and MAck 3 times, I came away impressed with Mack every. single. time., he factors in every aspect of offense on a offensive powerhouse, Draisaitl on the other hand just dutifully fills the scoresheet, I've never seen him dominate the way Mackinnon or McDavid did in my 4 viewings. So the question is, who do you build around, IMO, 10 times out of 10 its Mack AINEC. For your information, if the comparison is btw McD and Mack, then it will be much more debatable, all the oil fans defending Drai in droves seem excessive.

So what you're talking about is the eye test. You're saying that MacKinnon is more exciting and dynamic to watch and you may be right. However, I'll take the guy that produces at a higher rate over the course of his career. Hence the figures I posted in my earlier comment.

 

[McDNicks17]

and one of them have a Hart/ArtRoss/Lindsay winner absorbing the opposing team's shutdown pairs.

Look, there is no conspiracy to undermine your superstar player in Edm, we can plainly see he is a great player. He is just not as dominant as this particular player you're comparing him with. I've seen Draisaitl 4 times in person, and MAck 3 times, I came away impressed with Mack every. single. time., he factors in every aspect of offense on a offensive powerhouse, Draisaitl on the other hand just dutifully fills the scoresheet, I've never seen him dominate the way Mackinnon or McDavid did in my 4 viewings. So the question is, who do you build around, IMO, 10 times out of 10 its Mack AINEC. For your information, if the comparison is btw McD and Mack, then it will be much more debatable, all the oil fans defending Drai in droves seem excessive.

According to PuckIQ, Draisaitl played against elite competition more than MacKinnon did.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

Do you or do you not think that having McDavid on the same team helped Draisaitl last year?

sure
didn't MacKinnon point totals get helped when he went from a 53 point scorer in 2016-17 to a 97 point scorer in 2017-18 with the help of better players around him?

imagine that

 

[Regal]

I've made my opinion known on the first page but I'm surprised that people act like there is some massive gap between them defensively.

Look at Draisaitl's defensive impact as center (after January 1st) versus as McDavid's winger (before January 1st). He is significantly better defensively as a center which is pretty logical, its his drafted position, it forces him lower in the zone, and he is "the guy" on his line where as he cheats for offense when he is on McDavid's wing. He is also slightly better offensively at center than on McDavid's wing, passing is his strength and he works better from the middle of the ice rather than off the boards (but this is an aside topic- I'm mostly speaking to the notable difference in defensive play).

He is pretty damn bad defensively as a winger which no one will contest but I think a full year at center could shift this "Draisaitl is terrible defensively" narrative which is only partially true.

Mackinnon is by all means pretty average defensively which is not surprising, he's one of the league premier offensive threats, he's not out there to shutdown opposing lines. Draisaitl is behind him, but looking only at Draisaitl's time as a center, it's not by much.

I think this is likely true. Draisaitl playing center with two competent wingers in the second half made for a line that dominated both the stat sheet and the underlying numbers. I'm not sold he will continue to produce like he did in that stretch though as the line rode some crazy hot numbers, and the Oilers PP all last year was unsustainably good. A full year playing center with a more reasonable PP and I bet both his production and defensive numbers look similar to MacKinnon's

 

[KidLine93]

well the Oilers are built around McDavid and the advanced stats guys on this site have made it known the Avs are built around Valeri "advanced stats God" Nichushkin because reasons. So i'll have to go with neither.

 

[KidLine93]

Drai turned out pretty god considering he was a bust on the boards and no where near as good as Sam Bennett

 

[aufheben]

well the Oilers are built around McDavid and the advanced stats guys on this site have made it known the Avs are built around Valeri "advanced stats God" Nichushkin because reasons. So i'll have to go with neither.

This is true though. Not specifically Nichushkin but the amount of quality depth players are what really makes that team.

 

[Fatass]

Draisaitl is playing great, but isn’t he more of a second fiddle, while Mackinnon is more the lead?

 

[Llamamoto]

Draisaitl is playing great, but isn’t he more of a second fiddle, while Mackinnon is more the lead?

So Matt Barzal is better than Evgeni Malkin?

 

[Poda]

Has anyone noted yet, that MacKinnon's teammates scored more points than Draisaitl's teammates (including McDavid) last season until the Covid break? One should think that this is an interesting bit of information the way this discussion is going.

 

[nbwingsfan]

lolwut? Draisaitl has "put it all together"??? Not remotely close. He still leaches off McDavid ALOT, although not as much as in past years. And the same statistics that paint Matthews as a play driver and one that inhibits chances against among the best int he league, paint Draisaitl as a mess. Like Kovalev level floater.

Draisaitl didn't come close to "leaching" off of anyone this season and that's not really debatable.

Im glad this thread re-surfaced, it's clearly showing who's an idiot

 

[McDNicks17]

Remember when Rantanen was leading the league in scoring in 2018-19 and even got a "Is Rantanen the best player in the league" thread on here?

Apparently he's chopped liver now.

 

[LuGBuG]

MacKinnon because I like him more and dislike the Oilers and I am biased.

 

[Muffin]

2020 playoffs MacKinnon was the best player in the world, if he can sustain that level of play he'll surpass McDavid let alone Draisaitl. He was on a 137 point pace in the playoffs, that's unheard of.

 

[Canovin]

2020 playoffs MacKinnon was the best player in the world, if he can sustain that level of play he'll surpass McDavid let alone Draisaitl. He was on a 137 point pace in the playoffs, that's unheard of.

McDavid was on a 185 point pace. Just saying

 

[MessierII]

Has anyone noted yet, that MacKinnon's teammates scored more points than Draisaitl's teammates (including McDavid) last season until the Covid break? One should think that this is an interesting bit of information the way this discussion is going.

Don’t cloud the issue with facts

 

[Muffin]

McDavid was on a 185 point pace. Just saying

Over a 4 game sample size. MacKinnon was over 15 games. Also if you look up their career playoffs total, they're not close at all.

I mean it's debatable if McDavid's points should even be considered playoff points....I still stand by that play in rounds aren't playoffs.

 

[Muffin]

Has anyone noted yet, that MacKinnon's teammates scored more points than Draisaitl's teammates (including McDavid) last season until the Covid break? One should think that this is an interesting bit of information the way this discussion is going.

What? McDavid scored 97 points? He scored more points than Rantanen and Landeskog combined. Not sure what you're talking about. In fact MacKinnon scored 43 more points than his next closest teammate.

 

[McDNicks17]

What? McDavid scored 97 points? He scored more points than Rantanen and Landeskog combined. Not sure what you're talking about. In fact MacKinnon scored 43 more points than his next closest teammate.

Because of injuries.

Pretending it's because of a lack of quality is pretty disingenuous.

 

[aufheben]

Has anyone noted yet, that MacKinnon's teammates scored more points than Draisaitl's teammates (including McDavid) last season until the Covid break? One should think that this is an interesting bit of information the way this discussion is going.

What teammates? His linemates or literally everyone on the team? Who scored more than McDavid?