Who are your generational players?

[Dipsy Doodle]

I don't think there's any justification for putting Ovechkin or Crosby above Howe.

And I say this as a die hard Pens fan.

 

[Kamiccolo]

Sorry, the minimum qualification is a single 70 point or 30 assist season

Why do I have a feeling this entire thread was for this comment.

 

[hockeyguy1967]

So if Orpik hadn't had hit Crosby in the face with a slap shot in 2012-13 and Crosby won the Art Ross that year (he was running away with it, only eventually losing it to St. Louis by 4 points in 12 less games), he's generational? But since he didn't duck in time, he's not?

That's how silly it is when you put weird restrictions on "you need to win X amount of this trophy" before they qualify.

Injuries happen to everyone. In fact McDavid might have won it in his rookie year of not for injures he was second in PPG. Being the best in the NHL twice in your career is not generational sorry.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Only ones to arise in my lifetime are Gretzky, Lemieux, Lindros, Hasek, Lidstrom, Ovechkin, Crosby, and McDavid.

 

[bukwas]

Short but sweet.

Orr
Gretzky
Lemieux

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Injuries happen to everyone. In fact McDavid might have won it in his rookie year of not for injures he was second in PPG. Being the best in the NHL twice in your career is not generational sorry.

Your cut-off seems awfully convenient to leave off Crosby, especially when you refuse to acknowledge that injuries cost him at least a couple.

If you were being genuine about there having to be a "minimum Art Ross count", then why not a more reasonable number? Why not 5? Anyone with less than 5 is not generational? Why is "only 2 not enough" other than because that's what Crosby has?

 

[MMANumminen]

Orr
Howe
Wayne
Mario
Lindros
Crosby
McDavid

 

[Neutrinos]

McDavid is obviously a generational talent

I find this notion that he "needs more time" is completely arbitrary

 

[Zuluss]

Orr
Gretzky
Lemieux
Crosby

Its tough to leave Howe off the list because I think he is a top 5 all time guy but what seems to be so impressive about him is how long he was great for not as much of how much better he was than everyone else.

What seems impressive and never fails to amaze is how many people do not know about Howe's peak and only remember "how long he was great for".

So here are some numbers: in Howe's time (1944-1970), an average Art Ross winner led #5 in points by 32% and an average Art Ross runner-up led #5 in points by 19%. In his five best years (1950-54 plus 56/57) Howe, on average, led #5 in points by 50%, so peak Howe was 1.5x the average Art Ross winner and 2.5x the average Art Ross runner-up of his time in terms of the dominance over the peers.

In Gretzky's time (1970-1996, high-scoring years), an average Art Ross winner led #5 in points by 45% and an average Art Ross runner-up led #5 in points by 20%. In his best 5 years (1981-1986), Gretzky led #5 in points by 74%. For Lemieux, the same number is 42% (yes, injuries suck, but what happened, happened).

In the modern era (1997-2017), the average lead of the Art Ross winner/runner up over #5 in points are 20% and 11%. The same five-year average point lead over #5 for Jagr and Crosby is 25% and 15%.

So, to draw the bottom line, the average lead over #5 in points in five best seasons, expressed as the multiple of the #2 lead over #5 in the respective era:

Gretzky 3.7
Howe 2.63
Jagr 2.27
Lemieux 2.1
Crosby 1.36

I mean, Lemieux and, of all people, Crosby make your list, and Howe does not, because his peak was not high enough? Come on.

 

[Future GOAT]

Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr
Hasek
Howe
Crosby
McDavid
Ovechkin

Best list so far.

 

[Tripod]

There's a clear separation between the top 4 and guys like Jagr, Crosby, Hasek, Ovechkin. If we include the latter as generational we need to come up with another term for Gretzky/Lemieux/Orr/Howe.

100% agreed. I just can't put Ovi and Sid in their class when the big 4 are on such a higher tier.

If those 4 are generational, no one has been since Mario. If Sid, Ovi and Jagr are considered generational....then the big 4 another name for their tier.

 

[GlitchMarner]

If the definition you're using is "best of a generation", then Jagr doesn't qualify.

But if you use a different definition for "generational," why would you exclude Jagr and include any of Crosby, Ovechkin and McDavid?

 

[tucker3434]

I don’t have enough knowledge of the hockey eras prior to Gretzky/Lemieux to have a firm opinion on who was generational. But from then forward, I’d say Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, and McDavid.

 

[Foppberg]

Gretzky
Lemieux
Orr

 

[GlitchMarner]

McDavid is obviously a generational talent

I find this notion that he "needs more time" is completely arbitrary

I expect he'll be the clear-cut best of his generation, more than Crosby is of his.

 

[LamorielloAndSon]

Howe Gretzky Lindros Crosby mcdavid

 

[TheGroceryStick]

Orr and Gretzky.

Everyone else is in a lower echelon.

Both Orr and Gretzky are players that NHLers wished there were a better league for them to watch.

 

[Baxterman]

What seems impressive and never fails to amaze is how many people do not know about Howe's peak and only remember "how long he was great for".

So here are some numbers: in Howe's time (1944-1970), an average Art Ross winner led #5 in points by 32% and an average Art Ross runner-up led #5 in points by 19%. In his five best years (1950-54 plus 56/57) Howe, on average, led #5 in points by 50%, so peak Howe was 1.5x the average Art Ross winner and 2.5x the average Art Ross runner-up of his time in terms of the dominance over the peers.

In Gretzky's time (1970-1996, high-scoring years), an average Art Ross winner led #5 in points by 45% and an average Art Ross runner-up led #5 in points by 20%. In his best 5 years (1981-1986), Gretzky led #5 in points by 74%. For Lemieux, the same number is 42% (yes, injuries suck, but what happened, happened).

In the modern era (1997-2017), the average lead of the Art Ross winner/runner up over #5 in points are 20% and 11%. The same five-year average point lead over #5 for Jagr and Crosby is 25% and 15%.

So, to draw the bottom line, the average lead over #5 in points in five best seasons, expressed as the multiple of the #2 lead over #5 in the respective era:

Gretzky 3.7
Howe 2.63
Jagr 2.27
Lemieux 2.1
Crosby 1.36

I mean, Lemieux and, of all people, Crosby make your list, and Howe does not, because his peak was not high enough? Come on.

Sure if you want to add him it doesn't really bother me that much.

Crosby made my list because I watched his whole career so easy for me to say that he definitely was generational. Having not watched Howe play it was much easier to leave him off. But I am certainly not going to argue against the addition of Howe.

 

[bobbyking]

The term Generation I think typically means 20-25 years, an era of a person born into early adulthood, at least I thought that's what it meant.

But in Pro-Hockey, I think the term can mean any player every 10 or so years if the impact they brought to the game was so special by position that it meant they would be remembered throughout history, or as the very elite of the elite.


The Hockey Guy has a good video on youtube search Generation vs Franchise Players

He talks throughout history what the difference is.

He said something pretty controversial I doubt many on here would agree with that Eichel has the potential to be Generational along with McDavid where-as Matthews is more of a franchise player, and he gives examples why. I found this strange seeing as while not a Leaf Fan, he goes above and beyond defending Matthews and the Leafs and claims they will win a cup in the next two or three years. One thing about The Hockey Guy is he is always non-biased, fair, explains his opinion in fuill detail. He had 70,000 subs almost now in just 2 years and covers everything daily, its his job now and produces news on everything hockey except trade rumors because he hates when they don't happen and he's not just a HITS HOG. He decided not to report on Ray Emery as he doesen't want to make money off tragedies. He's a classy guy who's followed hockey since 1980 and his knowledge about all 31 teams is incredible. He can tell you each prospect on every teams development, where it is how far they came, as well as history.


I completely agree that since Jack has played one full season, with a better team around him and a healthy year, Eichel could be a regular 90-100 pt player, but is that generational? I don't know. Matthews is borderline that now and the two's production isn't very far off. Well Eichel has averaged more points per game then Matthews since Auston entered the league (0.94 > 0.88) With way worse circumstances so it's not an insane opinion. I think when it's said and done Matthews and Eichel could join McDavid one day as Generational Players. Laine because of his shot, situation and playmakers around him could be a Generational GOAL SCORER but that's about it. I can't see many other candidates becoming that. Mackinnon has already started off to bad, unless he repeats his production of last year every year for the next 15 years or so then he would be in the conversation.

It's an overused term and quite frankly everyone has a different definition.

(Don't really want to go earlier then around the 50's)

Guys who could be views as.

Richard/Howe
Sawchuk (Plante/Dryden)
Beliveau
Orr/Dryden/Hull/Esposito/Lafelur
Harvey/Bossy
Bourque/Macinnis
Gretzky/Messier
Lemieux/Francis
Hasek/Roy/Brodeur
Niedermayer (HM Pronger)
Lafontaine and Neely had potential until injuries, like Bure and Lindros though the latter two would make a better argument.
Lidstrom/Yzerman/Sakic/Forsberg
Jagr- Shout out to Kariya and Selanne but no on the term Generational..
(Too Many great players y from 1996-2004 that didn't last long or great/elite enough like Naslund, Iginla, Thonrton to be generational IMO so no to them as well.)
Ovechkin
Malkin
Stamkos was looking like one, not sure if that holds up.
Bergeron's resume is impressive but not sure about Generational. Barkov could be like this one day.
McDavid/Karlsson/Doughty? (Shout out to Pat Kane/Hedman but no)
WIth Possibilities to young guys like Barzal, Matthews, Laine, Eichel (three of these four names have only played one complete season it's too early to tell.)
Dahlin, Hughes, look like they have potential, and who's this NEXT one that's coming in 2020, or is it 2021 Savoie? I think I may of spelled his name wrong. But yeah.



I'm missing names, and some shouldn't be there but I Ztried my best for off the top of my head in like ten minutes.



The true Generational Players Without a DOubt



Howe (Richard/Beliveau?)
Orr
Lafleur (Harvey?)
Gretzky (Messier?)
Lemieux
Crosby (Malkin?)
Hasek (Roy and Brodeur?)
Jagr
Ovechkin
Lidstrom (Yzerman, Sakic/Forsberg?)
McDavid WILL be barring career ending injury (Maybe Karlsson)
Sav (If he's as good as they say for the future)

U clearly have no idea what generational is

 

[GlitchMarner]

Howe Gretzky Lindros Crosby mcdavid

Lindros is generational but Lemieux isn't?

 

[end]

Howe-Richard
Mikita-Hull
Orr-Esposito
Gretzky-Lemieux
Jagr
Crosby-Ovechkin
seems like this one will be McDavid

 

[psycat]

I expect he'll be the clear-cut best of his generation, more than Crosby is of his.

Probably but that's also atleast partly because this generation seems to be lacking a Ovechkin(or Malkin really).

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

Orr
Gretzky
Lemieux
Crosby

I think McDavid has a chance to join that group but needs a little more time. I think if healthy Lindros was pretty close to joining as well.

Its tough to leave Howe off the list because I think he is a top 5 all time guy but what seems to be so impressive about him is how long he was great for not as much of how much better he was than everyone else.

It might be my age that doesn't include Richard but I don't think he fits for me.

I can't really think of anyone else that is that close (at least in recent times I will let others debate Newsy Lalonde or Joe Malone.)

Howe won 4 striaght Art's by at least 30%
but yea....he wasn't that much better than everyone

 

[Varan]

Oh lord the annual generational thread

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Gretzky (greatest player of all time)

Mario Lemieux (most skilled player of all time and second best offensive player of all time)

Howe (I didn't see him to play but his longevity is unparalleled and he has the numbers too)

Orr (greatest defenseman of all time)

Bourque (second greatest defenseman of all time behind Orr)

Roy (greatest goaltender of all time)

Hasek (second greatest goaltender of all time behind Roy)

Current players:

Crosby (he has a chance to be the 5th best player of all time when all will be said and done)

Ovechkin (unlikely but he still has a chance to beat the Gretzky's career goal record which is unreal in the game today)

HM: McDavid (too soon to tell)