Which team has faced more adversity? [Pens or Preds?]

[SlapshotMe]

Because Letang had nothing to do with all the points Malkin and Crosby scored.

Crosby scored 102 points the season before Letang, so yeah, pretty much agree that Letang isn't the more important player.

 

[Winger for Hire]

Letang season points: 34
RJo season points: 61

Yep, by comparison no big loss. Agree there. Unless you lose one of your top 2 you're fine.

Is this the new advance metric? Judging defensmen by their points total?

 

[SlapshotMe]

Is this the new advance metric? Judging defensmen by their points total?

It's a new advanced metric that you're #1 center is more important than any defensemen, by a mile.

The pecking order in hockey is Goalie (if he is good), #1 center, large gap, everyone else.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Letang season points: 34
RJo season points: 61

Yep, by comparison no big loss. Agree there. Unless you lose one of your top 2 you're fine.

Are you really comparing a defenseman's point totals to a center's? A defenseman who missed almost half the year?

And Letang's points are meaningless to a team who led the league in scoring by a wide margin. It is their transition game which misses Letang the most. Obviously they have dealt with it, but just watching this team and last year's team you see the difference. Puck possession numbers have plummeted because of the loss. Both regular season and playoffs.

Letang, if not the most important Pen player, and I would argue that he is, is certainly in the top two or three. If you lose Crosby you have Malkin and many more who will step up. Murray? Fleury. Who can make up for Letang's loss? No one. That defense is duct tape and a prayer and the Pens coaching staff's brilliance.

 

[Datsyukian Deke]

Granted that Nashville hasn't played anybody as tough as the Washington Capitals roster is (on paper)

Since when have the Capitals been "tough"??

They've done their usual song and dance routine of, play well in the regular season, only to be befuddled by the 2nd round, for years on end now. You mean to tell me after how many times we've all seen that movie, it wasn't expected again?? Shades of the Senators of the late 90's/early 2000's, same results.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Since when have the Capitals been "tough"??

They've done their usual song and dance routine of, play well in the regular season, only to be befuddled by the 2nd round, for years on end now. You mean to tell me after how many times we've all seen that movie, it wasn't expected again?? Shades of the Senators of the late 90's/early 2000's, same results.

You are using the past to color what happened this year. The Caps outplayed Pittsburgh, dominating possession. A whopping 50.percent more shots than the Pens. Fleury stole that series for one. Sully coached circles around Trotz for another. But the Caps were the better team for most of that series. As a Pens fan I can admit that as I am not blind.

 

[Finesse]

I really don't want to hear about Penguin injuries unless that player is Crosby or Malkin. The Predators lost their best player.

Your ears must really have been burning then when Crosby was concussed.

 

[SlapshotMe]

Letang, if not the most important Pen player, and I would argue that he is, is certainly in the top two or three.

I agree totally, I just think missing your 3rd best player is much easier to deal with than losing the person who drives your offense.

 

[Zero Requiem]

It's a new advanced metric that you're #1 center is more important than any defensemen, by a mile.

The pecking order in hockey is Goalie (if he is good), #1 center, large gap, everyone else.

You can't honestly believe this? Would you rather have Ryan Johansen than Erik Karlsson?

 

[Eisen]

You can't honestly believe this? Would you rather have Ryan Johansen than Erik Karlsson?

It's irony. Like goldy and bronzy, only made out of iron.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Caps > Ducks > Hawks > Jackets > Sens > Blues

All in all about even as far as strength of competition, maybe slight edge to the Pens, IMO.

Adversity faced otherwise? Pittsburgh by a mile.

 

[Human]

This is another thread that supports my idea that Kris Letang is the most underrated player in the league.

The difference in playing with him and without him is massive.

 

[Legionnaire11]

You can't honestly believe this? Would you rather have Ryan Johansen than Erik Karlsson?

Now you're comparing a low end 1C to the #1 defenseman in the game.

If a team had Crosby and Karlsson (and no Malkin)... Ask if they'd rather lose Crosby or Karlsson.

Similarly, if the Preds lost Josi or Subban, it wouldn't be as big of a loss as Johansen. Joey runs the offense and there's no center even close to making up half of what he does. At least Schultz can manage the PP when Letang is out.

 

[AgentM]

Letang season points: 34
RJo season points: 61

Yep, by comparison no big loss. Agree there. Unless you lose one of your top 2 you're fine.

Letang Season: 34 Points in 41 Games = 0.81 PPG

RJo Season: 61 Points in 82 Games = 0.74 PPG

So our defenseman that has missed the entire playoffs actually scored at a higher rate than your center this season but by comparison isn't a big loss....

 

[Peat]

Letang Season: 34 Points in 41 Games = 0.81 PPG

RJo Season: 61 Points in 82 Games = 0.74 PPG

So our defenseman that has missed the entire playoffs actually scored at a higher rate than your center this season but by comparison isn't a big loss....

Be fair. Its not about overall quality, its about quality comparative to the rest of the team.

I do think the argument overlooks Letang's importance a bit - particularly when the next two best puck movers have also got injured, that was really rough - but is a fair argument. Nashville have only one elite centre, he is critical to them. Like, the last person they could afford to lose.


Where the argument really falls down for me is

a) This in a thread about facing adversity in the previous three series, when Johansen missing has only been a factor in two games. Could be huge going forwards but not a big factor in the past

b) Ignoring the negative effect of constantly shuffling the line up in weird and whacky ways to mitigate losses among the supporting cast. All those injuries to mere top six forwards do matter.

 

[Riptide]

Letang season points: 34
RJo season points: 61

Yep, by comparison no big loss. Agree there. Unless you lose one of your top 2 you're fine.

Not bad considering he only played 41 games.

 

[Riptide]

Where the argument really falls down for me is

a) This in a thread about facing adversity in the previous three series, when Johansen missing has only been a factor in two games. Could be huge going forwards but not a big factor in the past

b) Ignoring the negative effect of constantly shuffling the line up in weird and whacky ways to mitigate losses among the supporting cast. All those injuries to mere top six forwards do matter.

Yep. Pittsburgh to date in getting to the finals... but easily Nashville in the finals.

 

[Predatorbill]

You can't honestly believe this? Would you rather have Ryan Johansen than Erik Karlsson?

Karlsson is a great player and any team would like to have him. But, with our top for d-men and lack of center depth, IMO Ryan Johansen is more important to the Predators. It's not about who is the better player, it's about what does the team need.

 

[SlapshotMe]

You can't honestly believe this? Would you rather have Ryan Johansen than Erik Karlsson?

Karlsson is better than Johansen. Center is a more important position than defensemen. Team defense matters, individual defensemen have a much smaller impact on the team than a top offensive player has on offense. Let me know if you'd prefer to have Karlsson or Crosby.

It's not that hard of a concept, just go look at past Stanley Cup winners and let me know when you get to a team whose best player was a defensemen.

 

[hockeyisgud]

You can't honestly believe this? Would you rather have Ryan Johansen than Erik Karlsson?

I would honestly rather have Ryan Johansen than Erik Karlsson on the current Predators roster. Flame away.

 

[pm88]

Pittsburgh. They've had quite a few injuries to major players and Crosby probably isn't at 100% after that infamous cross-check in the Caps series

 

[hagelin1381]

The Penguins probably have.. Doesn't matter much though, the Preds fully deserve to be where they are, as do the Penguins. Interesting matchup, should be a fun series

 

[SpeedDemon]

No doubt its the Preds. Penguins have had pretty much had their full roster intact sans Kris Letang. They have other guys to make up for him. Yeah they lost Rust, Maata and Hornqvist for a few games but that's nothing when you compare what they have left.

The Preds losses are much more significant when you look at the rest of their team.

-They Lost Fiala in game one of Round on a dirty hit by Bortuzzo which had malicious intent written all over it.

-Since the Opening faceoff of game 1 in the WCF Kesler repeatedly tries to injure Johansen every chance he gets.

-Josh Mason incapacitates Mike Fisher in game 4 of the Conference Finals on another dangerous play where he could simply let the puck drop instead of jumping forward and hitting Fisher in the head and cutting him with his skate afterwards.

After several attempts the Ducks succeed in eliminating Johansen on another needless play.

The Ducks wouldn't have even been in CF if the refs and linesmen were so anti in games 3 & 4 of that series.

You could probably say the about Pens and game 7 in their CF with Ottawa. A guy grts a breakaway and gets hacked and whacked by two opposing players and the ref calls nothing- that either idiocy or bribery!!!

 

[Jaded-Fan]

No doubt its the Preds. Penguins have had pretty much had their full roster intact sans Kris Letang. They have other guys to make up for him. Yeah they lost Rust, Maata and Hornqvist for a few games but that's nothing when you compare what they have left.

The Preds losses are much more significant when you look at the rest of their team.

-They Lost Fiala in game one of Round on a dirty hit by Bortuzzo which had malicious intent written all over it.

-Since the Opening faceoff of game 1 in the WCF Kesler repeatedly tries to injure Johansen every chance he gets.

-Josh Mason incapacitates Mike Fisher in game 4 of the Conference Finals on another dangerous play where he could simply let the puck drop instead of jumping forward and hitting Fisher in the head and cutting him with his skate afterwards.

After several attempts the Ducks succeed in eliminating Johansen on another needless play.

The Ducks wouldn't have even been in CF if the refs and linesmen were so anti in games 3 & 4 of that series.

You could probably say the about Pens and game 7 in their CF with Ottawa. A guy grts a breakaway and gets hacked and whacked by two opposing players and the ref calls nothing- that either idiocy or bribery!!!

I stopped reading after you claimed that the Pens had their entire roster except for Letang the entire playoffs.

 

[Ms Maggie]

Pittsburgh I think. Guys gone for 2,3,4 games at a time: Sid, Rust, Hornquist, Daley, and lots more. That's hockey.

Irrelevant in any case.