Which D is most tradeable?
- Thread starter Hero
- Start date
i thought rielly was.
than when we draft seth jones he will be.
gardiner may never be the same , after he concussion. see liles
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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I'd do a Phaneuf for O'Reilly + or Duchene +. Stastny looks like trash these days.
with Rielly joining the team next year an offensive Dmen is deffinitly expendable, thats Liles or Franson, and if you could trade for a physical shutdown dmen then both of these guys are expendable.
johnny_rudeboy
Registered User
Phaneuf, somewhat overpaid, low hockey IQ, able to dominate any player physically, seem to be strong-headed and bounces back from previous mistakes, contradictorily both very mobile and a bit clumsy. Value have risen since we got him from Calgary seeing as his overall game have improved. Making less and less mistakes. A 1st and a good young roster player is minimum.
Kostka, doing well so far but have very little value.
Gardiner, a player in the same stage of his career and the same amount of talent. 2nd line C with potential to grow in to a first liner or similar.
Gunnarsson, all round d-man, not great at any thing but not bad at anything either. Make few mistakes and keeps developing. 2nd line forward or a 1st round pick or similar. Could perhaps be traded for a d-man who is more specialized like a shut down d-man or a PPQB.
Komisarek, overpaid and injury prone. Complimentary player who is tough and hits hard without belonging in the big boys club. A midlevel prospect and or a midlevel pick.
Liles,Veteran PMD with playoff experience signed long term. Think he would fetch a nice return. 1st and a decent young roster player.
Holzer, little value.
Franson, still somewhat raw as a defender but a good PP specialist. 2nd round pick and decent prospect.
Fraser, little value.
Going forward I would not mind us to have 3 PMD´s who can all contribute. Liles, Gardiner and Reilly differ in age, experience, potential and would make a good trio to put on different pairs. Phaneuf also offers this ability and also adds veteran presence with a little playoff experience but then it would be between him and Liles seeing as both Gardiner and Reilly aint being moved.
Phaneuf, not a fan of him as captain but I would actually want to see how he develops with Carlyle as coach. I personally think he is a lot better then when he played in RW´s run and gun style. If we get a really good deal for him (hopefully from a western team) then I think we should accept it. Not so worried about him walking for free when his contract is up. If he do he do, if not he stay. I´m ok with both.
I like Gunnarsson and see him as a valuable player. That he is drafted and developed by us adds to that, for sentimental reasons. I would not trade him straight up seeing as his value in such a trade would be a lot lower then if he was used in a package for a really good player.
So the ones I see we can trade is Franson, Komisarek and possible Liles.
Kostka, doing well so far but have very little value.
Gardiner, a player in the same stage of his career and the same amount of talent. 2nd line C with potential to grow in to a first liner or similar.
Gunnarsson, all round d-man, not great at any thing but not bad at anything either. Make few mistakes and keeps developing. 2nd line forward or a 1st round pick or similar. Could perhaps be traded for a d-man who is more specialized like a shut down d-man or a PPQB.
Komisarek, overpaid and injury prone. Complimentary player who is tough and hits hard without belonging in the big boys club. A midlevel prospect and or a midlevel pick.
Liles,Veteran PMD with playoff experience signed long term. Think he would fetch a nice return. 1st and a decent young roster player.
Holzer, little value.
Franson, still somewhat raw as a defender but a good PP specialist. 2nd round pick and decent prospect.
Fraser, little value.
Going forward I would not mind us to have 3 PMD´s who can all contribute. Liles, Gardiner and Reilly differ in age, experience, potential and would make a good trio to put on different pairs. Phaneuf also offers this ability and also adds veteran presence with a little playoff experience but then it would be between him and Liles seeing as both Gardiner and Reilly aint being moved.
Phaneuf, not a fan of him as captain but I would actually want to see how he develops with Carlyle as coach. I personally think he is a lot better then when he played in RW´s run and gun style. If we get a really good deal for him (hopefully from a western team) then I think we should accept it. Not so worried about him walking for free when his contract is up. If he do he do, if not he stay. I´m ok with both.
I like Gunnarsson and see him as a valuable player. That he is drafted and developed by us adds to that, for sentimental reasons. I would not trade him straight up seeing as his value in such a trade would be a lot lower then if he was used in a package for a really good player.
So the ones I see we can trade is Franson, Komisarek and possible Liles.
Agreed no young rebuilding team is going to introduce Dion to their dressing room - he's too toxic. Well except Toronto I mean ...
i thought rielly was.
than when we draft seth jones he will be.
gardiner may never be the same , after he concussion. see liles
Rielly is a main building block too. Assuming he will never be the same never entered my thinking though. Rielly,and Gardiner quaterbacking both power-play units with whoever they might have paired with them is a nice offensive punch in the future.
I could guess who will be their partners but,won't.
how about a top young big center prospect? for him.
schenn for jvr worked good for us.
I'm gonna be the first to say this,Mark Fraser will be our physical shutdown defender as long as Carlyle is coaching the team.The reason being is thats exactly what is right in front of everyones noses.
I'm not to sure though how many see it,or know it. I would take another though to boot. We don't have a comparable in the system or Roster on defense.
Your question is actually two questions, because you asked who could we move, and who should we move.
The answers are opposite to each other. The ones we could move are the most desirable to other teams. The ones we should move are the least desirable to other teams.
/thread
The answers are opposite to each other. The ones we could move are the most desirable to other teams. The ones we should move are the least desirable to other teams.
/thread
to big of a contract , no team wants to pay that much for 5 or 6 defenceman
No for me. Building from the net out you have to refuse to move them two. If of course thats Nonis's intention. Find other ways to do that trade with regards to them two players.
There's a big difference between who's the easiest to trade (Gardiner has the most trade value, hence is the easiest to trade) and who is most likely to return proper value in a trade.
I'll assume the second question is the point, 'cause it's the harder one to try to answer.
It may seem a bit strange, but I'll argue that Liles fits the bill.
First, the why not everyone else: Gardiner is hard to trade, as finding someone to give proper value would be tough. Same for Gunnarsson as he's not a piece people give up premium stuff for, but he's so cost effective and useful, it wouldn't be worth dealing him. Phaneuf is too expensive to get good pieces, but there's no chance the Leafs are in a position to disperse all his minutes among the remaining existing d-men (this one could be more debatable, but we talk about Dion enough already). Dealing Komi nets nothing if even possible and likely saves little (buyout next year should be 2/3 of 3.5 right?). Franson and Kostka are kind of wild unknowns. They'd be interesting in larger packages, but just figuring out what to ask for trading them on their own would be very hard. They're only easy to trade if you're willing to dump for little. Fraser and Holzer are perfect swing/depth pieces. You rarely get much for them, but you better have them. It's probably not too hard to find the right team that needs one of them enough to give proper value, but they're just such a boring answer, as the value we're talking about isn't all that much either.
Which brings us back to Liles. The cons on Liles are twofold: recent injury-related decline and a long (4 year) contract for an older player. However, he's got a skill that is always in demand, especially by teams looking for pieces at the deadline, but may be about to be squeezed out once Gardiner is able to come back (that does assume a few things, I'll grant). He's also got a deal that could be bought out after just two years if necessary. If he plays as he has for the next 20 games (negating the concerns that would've developed after last season) and Jake comes back and looks top 4 capable (making him worth less to the Leafs than to other teams), then Liles stops being a necessary piece for the Leafs.
And while we don't like his deal, it would take very little work to make it quite manageable even with 3 more years after this one. The last two years are 7m in salary (only makes 2.75 in the final year), requiring a touch over 4.66 buyout. If the Leafs just kept back half that in the deal, it require less than a 600k cap hit per year. This way the Leafs, for little burden, would share the risk on Liles' buyout. If he was worth it for even three years, then the acquiring team gets him at a bit of a discount too, seems like the kind of reasonable gamble you'll see around deadline time.
IMO, he's exactly the kind of fit that could get something of reasonable value back without being a premium asset that's always hard to give up.
I'll assume the second question is the point, 'cause it's the harder one to try to answer.
It may seem a bit strange, but I'll argue that Liles fits the bill.
First, the why not everyone else: Gardiner is hard to trade, as finding someone to give proper value would be tough. Same for Gunnarsson as he's not a piece people give up premium stuff for, but he's so cost effective and useful, it wouldn't be worth dealing him. Phaneuf is too expensive to get good pieces, but there's no chance the Leafs are in a position to disperse all his minutes among the remaining existing d-men (this one could be more debatable, but we talk about Dion enough already). Dealing Komi nets nothing if even possible and likely saves little (buyout next year should be 2/3 of 3.5 right?). Franson and Kostka are kind of wild unknowns. They'd be interesting in larger packages, but just figuring out what to ask for trading them on their own would be very hard. They're only easy to trade if you're willing to dump for little. Fraser and Holzer are perfect swing/depth pieces. You rarely get much for them, but you better have them. It's probably not too hard to find the right team that needs one of them enough to give proper value, but they're just such a boring answer, as the value we're talking about isn't all that much either.
Which brings us back to Liles. The cons on Liles are twofold: recent injury-related decline and a long (4 year) contract for an older player. However, he's got a skill that is always in demand, especially by teams looking for pieces at the deadline, but may be about to be squeezed out once Gardiner is able to come back (that does assume a few things, I'll grant). He's also got a deal that could be bought out after just two years if necessary. If he plays as he has for the next 20 games (negating the concerns that would've developed after last season) and Jake comes back and looks top 4 capable (making him worth less to the Leafs than to other teams), then Liles stops being a necessary piece for the Leafs.
And while we don't like his deal, it would take very little work to make it quite manageable even with 3 more years after this one. The last two years are 7m in salary (only makes 2.75 in the final year), requiring a touch over 4.66 buyout. If the Leafs just kept back half that in the deal, it require less than a 600k cap hit per year. This way the Leafs, for little burden, would share the risk on Liles' buyout. If he was worth it for even three years, then the acquiring team gets him at a bit of a discount too, seems like the kind of reasonable gamble you'll see around deadline time.
IMO, he's exactly the kind of fit that could get something of reasonable value back without being a premium asset that's always hard to give up.
holzer
only sent down ,cause he did not have to go through waivers.
I like Holzer,and partnered with Fraser they are a very comfortable/tough/consistant/dominating AHL pairing. It didn't matter who was the team they were facing eakins trusted them.
Fraser brings fighting over Holzer,and Holzer brings quickness over Fraser,and together they gel. I would trade someone just to make room for Holzer to play with Fraser actually.
LOL,but what do i know. I would trade Liles at present if i had to pick one.
In terms of value:
Gardiner
Reilly
Phaneuf.
Gunnarson
Liles
Franson
Kostka
Fraser
Komisarek
Considering the best we can expect in a trade from (Komi, Fraser, Kostka) is a late round pick... I wouldn't be to excited about giving up depth. For Franson and Liles a 2nd round pick. A desperate team possibly a late 1st for Liles... But honestly I love Liles. Gunnarson is a stud defensively, pretty under rated and he's a valuable piece. I would move him but honestly he's not going to get us an impact player so any trade involving Gunnarson would just be a lateral move. Phaneuf... why isn't he our most valuable player? Likely because the chip on his shoulder and his high salary. However he is the Leafs most valuable player making in ridiculous to trade him. He's most definitely a border line #1 defensmen but I think he's most valued by us. I could see him getting a 1st + B prospect. Reilly and Gardiner hold a great deal of value. Both have solid futures and are young, core pieces. Both have more than 2 years on there ELC. Reilly(3) Gardiner (2) so they're both controllable players who have promising futures. If either of these two are ever moved they're the centre piece to a valuable centre.
Gardiner
Reilly
Phaneuf.
Gunnarson
Liles
Franson
Kostka
Fraser
Komisarek
Considering the best we can expect in a trade from (Komi, Fraser, Kostka) is a late round pick... I wouldn't be to excited about giving up depth. For Franson and Liles a 2nd round pick. A desperate team possibly a late 1st for Liles... But honestly I love Liles. Gunnarson is a stud defensively, pretty under rated and he's a valuable piece. I would move him but honestly he's not going to get us an impact player so any trade involving Gunnarson would just be a lateral move. Phaneuf... why isn't he our most valuable player? Likely because the chip on his shoulder and his high salary. However he is the Leafs most valuable player making in ridiculous to trade him. He's most definitely a border line #1 defensmen but I think he's most valued by us. I could see him getting a 1st + B prospect. Reilly and Gardiner hold a great deal of value. Both have solid futures and are young, core pieces. Both have more than 2 years on there ELC. Reilly(3) Gardiner (2) so they're both controllable players who have promising futures. If either of these two are ever moved they're the centre piece to a valuable centre.
HockeyGuruPitka
Registered User
could actually be Gardiner... Seems odd to say, but if he aint sticking this year Rielly will be challenging for his job.
I only say Gardiner because you gotta give something good to get something good. Although there's nothing available that i would move Gardiner for unless the avs suddenly felt the urge to move ROR, Duchene, Statsny etc.
I only say Gardiner because you gotta give something good to get something good. Although there's nothing available that i would move Gardiner for unless the avs suddenly felt the urge to move ROR, Duchene, Statsny etc.
Phaneuf hands down I think holds the most trade value at this point but IMO it would be sheer stupidity to move him, because we dont have a guy who can replace him as a top #1D. Please do not utter the word "Gardiner", the guy is a) coming off a serious head injury b) not ready for top line minutes c) lacks a 2 way game to play top minutes.
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