Where we went wrong.....

[Micklebot]

I think expectations are pretty tame.. is anyone surprised were right in the thick of a playoff battle right now?

Its where we are going that have some of us worried...

Where exactly is the team going? Based on peoples thoughts on our aging veterans, you would think improvement is on the horizon.

Phillips: Likely gone after this contract. People say he should currently be a scratch
Legwand: Stopgap solution. Gone after next season
Michalek: Might be stuck with him for this year and 2 more. Possibe trade bait.
Greening: Healthy scratch that may be traded.

Only piece of value that we could be losing is Methot, who I'd assume we would make every effort to replace if that were the case.

Maybe I missed someone. Point is, going into the season, we expected to be a bubble team, but that was with Methot. The fact that we are a bubble team without him (though in the midst of a stretch of poor play) is promising.

IMO, we should be holding off evaluating where the team is until we see it with Methot. That doesn't mean that we don't recognize that we are out of the playoff picture should that be the case, but rather don't make knee jerk reactions based on how the team plays when missing a key component.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Thinking Zibanejad could carry the 2C load this year has crippled us. Thinking Michalek could be a top 6 LW has also done considerable damage. Those are two massive mistakes - and I don't blame management really, I thought they'd be a lot better than they've been.

 

[Scrub*]

Have to blame Melnyk when u keep seeing stars leave and he's too cheap to keep them here.

 

[Indrew]

For me personally, these wounds have healed. It's getting close to a decade ago now.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Have to blame Melnyk when u keep seeing stars leave and he's too cheap to keep them here.

We just signed two longterm

 

[Scrub*]

We just signed two longterm

Yep. Bobby Ryan can't even make an all star team though.

 

[SpezDispenser]

Yep. Bobby Ryan can't even make an all star team though.

Geez...all star team, like anyone gives a crap if he makes the all star team or not.

 

[HugeMidget]

Sending JOB into orbit is clearly what crushed us. Jimmy was the glue that kept us together

 

[Scrub*]

Geez...all star team, like anyone gives a crap if he makes the all star team or not.

It's more than about just the all star team, but if he doesn't get the votes for it and makes more money than anyone else on our team, i guess thats ok? Sens are full of mediocrity.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

It's more than about just the all star team, but if he doesn't get the votes for it and makes more money than anyone else on our team, i guess thats ok? Sens are full of mediocrity.

People are actually using all star voting to trash the Senators now?

Man . . . whats next? This fanbase puzzles me sometimes.

 

[jbeck5]

We just signed two longterm

Is a 50-60 point player a star? I don't recall calling bonk, smolinski, mceachern etc stars cuz they would hit 50 points regularly with a 70 point peak. That's what bobby ryan is. He's no point a game hossa,Alfie,or havlat which were considered our stars when we were a good team.

 

[Scrub*]

People are actually using all star voting to trash the Senators now?

Did you even read what you quoted? "It's more than about just the all star team"

 

[swiftwin]

Sending JOB into orbit is clearly what crushed us. Jimmy was the glue that kept us together

I mean he did set up Turris perfectly for that Turris OT goal against the Rangers, right?

While, we're at it, let's find Yuha Ylonen. Maybe we can re-enact Alfie's "Hit on Tucker" goal on Thursday

 

[Micklebot]

Is a 50-60 point player a star? I don't recall calling bonk, smolinski, mceachern etc stars cuz they would hit 50 points regularly with a 70 point peak. That's what bobby ryan is. He's no point a game hossa,Alfie,or havlat which were considered our stars when we were a good team.

To be fair, when Bonk, Smolinski and McEachern were puting up 50-60 pts, they had Yashin, Hossa, and Alfredsson carrying their lines. Ryan doesn't have that luxury. Instead, he plays with Turris, a very good 2nd line center, or Zibanejad, a promising prospective 2nd line center. He did have a very brief stint (102 ES mins) with a still recovering post back surgery Spezza. Last time he spent more than half his season with a legit 1st line center (2010/11) he had 71 pts and 35 goals.

Ryan's ES production has taken a masive noesdive this year; he's scoring at less than half the per min rate of last year, and oddly enough, it's his time with Turris that is the most disapointing. He's had his spurts where he looked like he was taking over the game, but there's no doubt he's struggling. Too bad he'll be playing through injury if at all for the next 4-6 weeks.

 

[StefanW]

You can pretty much pick anything as a turning point.

For me, the big turn was winning the first round series against Montreal a couple of seasons ago. The team suffered major injuries and got by with AHL guys picking up the slack for a short period of time, plus we rode all-world goaltending.

When Alfie and Gonchar left the club felt the young guys, especially on D, could immediately step in and be successful in the NHL. It also fell perfectly in line with the team's cash troubles, and allowed the team a rationale to keep spending toward the bottom of the league. To this day it still confuses people, including management, why we just can't be the "pesky Sens" all over again. That was lightning in a bottle.

 

[Benjamin]

Bobby Ryan is not a star. Just a 50 - 60 point player that doesn't make his linemates better

 

[Six Assets]

Bobby Ryan is not a star. Just a 50 - 60 point player that doesn't make his linemates better

naw 50-60 is an understatement

 

[DrEasy]

Where exactly is the team going? Based on peoples thoughts on our aging veterans, you would think improvement is on the horizon.

Phillips: Likely gone after this contract. People say he should currently be a scratch
Legwand: Stopgap solution. Gone after next season
Michalek: Might be stuck with him for this year and 2 more. Possibe trade bait.
Greening: Healthy scratch that may be traded.

Only piece of value that we could be losing is Methot, who I'd assume we would make every effort to replace if that were the case.

Maybe I missed someone. Point is, going into the season, we expected to be a bubble team, but that was with Methot. The fact that we are a bubble team without him (though in the midst of a stretch of poor play) is promising.

IMO, we should be holding off evaluating where the team is until we see it with Methot. That doesn't mean that we don't recognize that we are out of the playoff picture should that be the case, but rather don't make knee jerk reactions based on how the team plays when missing a key component.

Phillips, Michalek and Legwand were just signed or re-signed. It's not like they're at the tail end of long contracts and we just can't wait for them to be over. That's not telling me that we'll do anything different when they're gone. It's telling me that, for better or worse, management values these kinds of players and will look for more of the same when they're gone.

 

[aragorn]

Bobby Ryan is not a star. Just a 50 - 60 point player that doesn't make his linemates better

I thought the majority of people on here wanted to trade for Ryan? And I thought the majority here wanted Ryan extended. Anytime I have criticized Ryan for lazy play most didn't like it & most here criticize PM for not playing him more. Not sure why people would think he could even carry the team, he has been & continues to be a compliment player.

I think Puempel is a similar player, a guy who can score a lot of goals & mediocre at everything else. Turris IMO is the better player who can do it all & MacArthur is also a better overall player than Ryan. It will be interesting to see whether Ryan can even out score those two on this team but both those guys are better defensively than Ryan. Ryan is expected to score consistently which he has yet to do any more than some other guys who make a lot less.

 

[StefanW]

I thought the majority of people on here wanted to trade for Ryan? And I thought the majority here wanted Ryan extended. Anytime I have criticized Ryan for lazy play most didn't like it & most here criticize PM for not playing him more. Not sure why people would think he could even carry the team, he has been & continues to be a compliment player.

I think Puempel is a similar player, a guy who can score a lot of goals & mediocre at everything else. Turris IMO is the better player who can do it all & MacArthur is also a better overall player than Ryan. It will be interesting to see whether Ryan can even out score those two on this team but both those guys are better defensively than Ryan. Ryan is expected to score consistently which he has yet to do any more than some other guys who make a lot less.

So finding a guy who disagrees somehow means that majority opinion has changed?

 

[aragorn]

Thinking Zibanejad could carry the 2C load this year has crippled us. Thinking Michalek could be a top 6 LW has also done considerable damage. Those are two massive mistakes - and I don't blame management really, I thought they'd be a lot better than they've been.

Agreed but we could add a number of other players who are not performing or under whelming to the level expected. Can we think of any one player who is over performing what we thought they could do? I would say Ceci other than that, I can't say, maybe the goalies.

So finding a guy who disagrees somehow means that majority opinion has changed?

No, it means the majority are often wrong though.

 

[CanadianHockey]

1. Drafting and development dropped off in the mid-2000s for the club. Part of it can be attributed to a contending club having low draft selections, part of it can be attributed to Muckler's poor scouting and drafting.

2. We lost star players and got little in return (Chara via UFA, Havlat for scraps, Redden and Heatley dropped off cliffs).

3. We could not bring in a top tier goaltender to cover for the decline of our blueline. Emery worked for a season and then became a headache. Gerber worked for half a season. Elliott was too inexperienced and still developing. Leclaire was overhyped and injury prone and cost us a good piece in Vermette. Anderson was a great acquisition, but came too late to salvage the club from our decline.

4. Budgetary considerations. This probably contributes to #1-3. Havlat, Hossa, and Chara are all guys who moved on, in part, because of team finances. As the cap has gone up, this has hurt us more and more, to the point that we're near the floor. This can't really be blamed on any one person. The introduction of the cap handicapped us when we were on the cusp of winning a Cup and contributed to Chara's departure and IIRC to Havlat's trade. Hossa moved on because the team was poor due to the loans and burdens of being an expansion franchise. Melnyk, as much as I want to criticize him, was hit by a costly divorce and rapid cap inflation at about the same time.

 

[CanadianHockey]

probably mentioned, but it was the keeping redden over chara for me, one wanted to stay the other wanted value. on top of that we kept the local flavor instead of the defenceman projected to be better. **** even if both declined at the same rate i would have rather had the tower on defence. we have been trying to recover ever since imo, especially in terms of defenceman

I disagree with this statement.

At the time, it was pretty much 50-50 on which guy to keep. Many people thought the new NHL was tailored for guys like Redden. It isn't fair to say Chara was projected to be better at that point.

 

[Senscore]

I will admit it and say I was one of them.

Redden was playing some of the best hockey of his career. There was really no indication he was going to fall off a cliff like he did. Meanwhile, Chara, coming out of the Sabres series, was looking incredibly slow and vulnerable to smaller quicker players who could beat him to the outside. Now maybe we didn't have the right sort of coaching to use him properly, and he did have a hand injury during that series, but he really didn't look like the sort of guy who would last under a more open ice situation.

Obviously things turned out very differently, but at the time it was anything but a clear decision.

 

[Minister of Offence]

I thought the majority of people on here wanted to trade for Ryan? And I thought the majority here wanted Ryan extended. Anytime I have criticized Ryan for lazy play most didn't like it & most here criticize PM for not playing him more. Not sure why people would think he could even carry the team, he has been & continues to be a compliment player.

I think Puempel is a similar player, a guy who can score a lot of goals & mediocre at everything else. Turris IMO is the better player who can do it all & MacArthur is also a better overall player than Ryan. It will be interesting to see whether Ryan can even out score those two on this team but both those guys are better defensively than Ryan. Ryan is expected to score consistently which he has yet to do any more than some other guys who make a lot less.

Kinda silly putting limits on a 21 year old you've barely seen play.