Where we went wrong.....

[harvey]

shirley you cannot be supporting muckler. he totally ruined this team.

 

[Ice-Tray]

shirley you cannot be supporting muckler. he totally ruined this team.

Don't call me Shirley!

 

[CanadianHockey]

The team was destined for failure with or without Muckler. The goaltending he acquired was probably league worst, and he chose a declining Redden over a rising Chara (in hindsight).

Agreed, so roll with Muckler until the team starts to flop, not while the team is still riding the peak of its success. The optics of firing a GM after a Cup Finals appearance are hardly flattering to the organization.

 

[Senateurs]

For me there are 3 reasons.


#1
The 2006 off season. Sign Redden, let Chara walk, sign Gerber trade Havlat for spare parts. I don't care if we reached the finals that year, we weren't an elite team anymore.

We saw it the following season where we did not have the organizational depth we used to. Years of average drafting and trading away future for deadline patch jobs left our cupboard empty.

#2
Not tanking when the opportunity came along.

In 2009, we trade Vermette for and injured Leclaire but also traded a 1st for Comrie and Campoli. Two strategic moves completely opposite from one to another. On one hand we're planning for next year, trying to get that #1 goalie we desperately need, on the other, we're not quitting, we're trading picks and prospects for a pointless run at making the playoffs. There was also a lot of veterans on the team that could have been traded. Instead of getting pick #9 (Cowen) maybe we're in the mix for Duchene, Kane, Hedman, Larsson....

It was finally done properly in 2011 but it looks like the top 7-8 picks will not turn out as good as the first 8 in the previous 2 drafts.

Now I like how it was done. Keep veterans (Spezza, Alfie, Neil, Phillips, Kuba) add some experience (MM9, Gonchar, Carkner, Konopka) let them carry the team for a year or two while the kids learn the ropes. I think the success in 2012 and 2013 let us believed they were ready to take a bigger role and that could explain why we seemed to be staling.

#3
Money. Whether it's the cap coming out of the first lockout which made it next to impossible for us to keep all our young stars or Melnyk throwing money at Kovalev when it's time to tank but being cheap now when the team could use some UFA help that is not named Dvid Legwand. The financial landscape has always had an impact on this team.

 

[Stylizer1]

It went wrong after 2011 when we left enough talent to be competitive.

 

[Micklebot]

Agreed, so roll with Muckler until the team starts to flop, not while the team is still riding the peak of its success. The optics of firing a GM after a Cup Finals appearance are hardly flattering to the organization.

By firing Muckler when we did, we had the scouting staff in place on time to draft Karlsson. Had we continued with Muckler, we probably have Joe Colborne, or Daultan Leveille. The problems Muckler was causeing wasn't to the current product, but to the future. The longer you put off getting rid of him, the more damage is done.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Why spend so much time looking for a magical moment where things "went wrong" anyways? Someone here have a TARDIS they're not telling the rest of us about?

 

[Micklebot]

Why spend so much time looking for a magical moment where things "went wrong" anyways? Someone here have a TARDIS they're not telling the rest of us about?

Our time machine will soon follow them! They will be exterminated! Exterminated! Exterminated!

 

[maclean]

OK guys, here it is, can't believe no one's got it yet: the moment things went bad with this team is - getting a week off. After rolling over the whole east in the 06-07 playoffs, we had to wait eight days for the finals series to start. Although some of that was waiting for the west conf finals to end, it could have easily started much sooner. We lost all our momentum and Anaheim had time to catch their breath. That's where this team went off the rails.
This season you see it again, we were racking up wins, on a roll, then that toronto game got cancelled over one nut with a rifle and suddenly the players had a whole week off, never got their game back after that. Couldn't be clearer.

 

[umma gumma]

Did Muckler sign any terrible contracts that hurt us?

He gave Redden a no trade clause which he exercised when Murray had a deal to send him to San Jose for Marleau.

That hurt.

 

[Micklebot]

He gave Redden a no trade clause which he exercised when Murray had a deal to send him to San Jose for Marleau.

That hurt.

Gerber was terrible too. I'd say having one of the worst starters in the league is pretty damaging.

 

[Filatov2Kovalev2Bonk]

OK guys, here it is, can't believe no one's got it yet: the moment things went bad with this team is - getting a week off. After rolling over the whole east in the 06-07 playoffs, we had to wait eight days for the finals series to start. Although some of that was waiting for the west conf finals to end, it could have easily started much sooner. We lost all our momentum and Anaheim had time to catch their breath. That's where this team went off the rails.
This season you see it again, we were racking up wins, on a roll, then that toronto game got cancelled over one nut with a rifle and suddenly the players had a whole week off, never got their game back after that. Couldn't be clearer.

This is an excuse. The team swept the other series in five games so they had time off then too. The problem is Murray didn't have them on a strenuous practice schedule while in ANaheim and they only went to California (iirc) a few days before the series started. That's on the team and not on the schedule. Most teams want one long series and a short one. Sens just got three short ones.

They were never going to beat Norris Forest though so meh.

 

[Stylizer1]

OK guys, here it is, can't believe no one's got it yet: the moment things went bad with this team is - getting a week off. After rolling over the whole east in the 06-07 playoffs, we had to wait eight days for the finals series to start. Although some of that was waiting for the west conf finals to end, it could have easily started much sooner. We lost all our momentum and Anaheim had time to catch their breath. That's where this team went off the rails.
This season you see it again, we were racking up wins, on a roll, then that toronto game got cancelled over one nut with a rifle and suddenly the players had a whole week off, never got their game back after that. Couldn't be clearer.

The Ducks were just better. They destroyed us break or no break.

 

[aragorn]

Curtis Lazar - I didn't think he did all that well to win a job out of training camp, in fact, I thought Puempel was the better player who should have won the job. I also think having Lazar in the lineup screwed up the lines with scorers in checking roles & checkers in scoring roles. He really hasn't done anything to this point to stay in the lineup either IMO. I think the team would be better without him because the guys who would be playing in his place play specific roles which this team needs rather than having a rookie who isn't scoring.

Lazar is going to be a star but right now he should be back in junior getting stronger & scoring goals & getting more confidence. I also think next season he should start the yr in Bingo paying his dues & learning the pro game & when Legwand's time is up in Ottawa that would be the time to bring him up. Pageau & Puempel would give Ottawa more of what they need more so than Lazar at this point. Hopefully he goes to the WJC & then back to junior where he belongs.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Curtis Lazar - I didn't think he did all that well to win a job out of training camp, in fact, I thought Puempel was the better player who should have won the job. I also think having Lazar in the lineup screwed up the lines with scorers in checking roles & checkers in scoring roles. He really hasn't done anything to this point to stay in the lineup either IMO. I think the team would be better without him because the guys who would be playing in his place play specific roles which this team needs rather than having a rookie who isn't scoring.

Lazar is going to be a star but right now he should be back in junior getting stronger & scoring goals & getting more confidence. I also think next season he should start the yr in Bingo paying his dues & learning the pro game & when Legwand's time is up in Ottawa that would be the time to bring him up. Pageau & Puempel would give Ottawa more of what they need more so than Lazar at this point. Hopefully he goes to the WJC & then back to junior where he belongs.

And yet the coaching staff apparently rave about what he brings to the team. Apparently they feel that he is one of the best players away from the puck, and they feel that the scoring will come with NHL experience and confidence.

You don't gain NHL scoring experience, and NHL confidence in junior. In my opinion he has already taken everything that needs taking from playing with boys.

Whether or not he starts next year in Bingo is one thing, but he won;t and shouldn't spend the rest of the year playing with kids.

 

[aragorn]

And yet the coaching staff apparently rave about what he brings to the team. Apparently they feel that he is one of the best players away from the puck, and they feel that the scoring will come with NHL experience and confidence.

You don't gain NHL scoring experience, and NHL confidence in junior. In my opinion he has already taken everything that needs taking from playing with boys.

Whether or not he starts next year in Bingo is one thing, but he won;t and shouldn't spend the rest of the year playing with kids.

And yet the talk is that Lazar will be sent to play in the WJC & then possibly sent back to junior. He really isn't helping this team win & why not send him back to junior where he can dominate & get some confidence back instead of staying in this negative environment.

 

[BigBush*]

And yet the talk is that Lazar will be sent to play in the WJC & then possibly sent back to junior. He really isn't helping this team win & why not send him back to junior where he can dominate & get some confidence back instead of staying in this negative environment.

why is Ottawa a negative environment? And how do you know?

 

[bert]

And yet the talk is that Lazar will be sent to play in the WJC & then possibly sent back to junior. He really isn't helping this team win & why not send him back to junior where he can dominate & get some confidence back instead of staying in this negative environment.

You're the only and I mean only person who thinks he isn't helping.

I agree about him not being in a negative environment though. He was the best senator in the Alfie retirement game which I thought was hilarious because he was the only player in the lineup that really never played or participated in a camp with him.

 

[bert]

why is Ottawa a negative environment? And how do you know?

Its because they are getting dominated night in night out. Losing breeds losers look at Edmonton.

 

[BigBush*]

Its because they are getting dominated night in night out. Losing breeds losers look at Edmonton.

or it teaches players to battle back. They've hit a rough patch, no need to mail it in, that's what creates losers, look at Edmonton

 

[Ice-Tray]

or it teaches players to battle back. They've hit a rough patch, no need to mail it in, that's what creates losers, look at Edmonton

Agreed. Losing at 50% rate for a young inexperienced team doesn't mean a negative environment. Are the guys giggling and laughing after losses? No, but I doubt they're moping and at each other's throats. They are winning as much as they lose, but more importantly they are in every game. There are always several positives to take from each game. If you consider the season as a developmental year for the kids, things look a lot less dire and sad.

You have to lose to learn how to win, you have to beat the best to be the best, etc...

 

[harvey]

And yet the talk is that Lazar will be sent to play in the WJC & then possibly sent back to junior. He really isn't helping this team win & why not send him back to junior where he can dominate & get some confidence back instead of staying in this negative environment.

what? who? when? where? i have not heard this "talk" unless it is in a bar after way too many beers by my taxi driver.

 

[ReginKarlssonLehner]

If anyone thought this team is going wrong path this year they have no idea what they're talking about.

We knew we were an inexperienced hockey team who was either gonna squeeze into playoffs or finish bottom 10.

Nothing has changed so far.

The goal of this year is to primarily play the studs and core players and see who deserve to stay and what to potentially address. If we made playoffs = things going extremely well. If we get lottery pick = excellent prospect in deeeeeeeep draft + better sense of what's wrong with the team for a quick fix.

 

[ChocolateLeclaire]

If anyone thought this team is going wrong path this year they have no idea what they're talking about.

We knew we were an inexperienced hockey team who was either gonna squeeze into playoffs or finish bottom 10.

Nothing has changed so far.

The goal of this year is to primarily play the studs and core players and see who deserve to stay and what to potentially address. If we made playoffs = things going extremely well. If we get lottery pick = excellent prospect in deeeeeeeep draft + better sense of what's wrong with the team for a quick fix.

This guy gets it.

Not only that but the management is also now in transition (unfortunately). Whoever the next person is, be it Dorian,Shero, whatever...that person will have his own views on how to build the team going forward.

 

[pepty]

This guy gets it.

Not only that but the management is also now in transition (unfortunately). Whoever the next person is, be it Dorian,Shero, whatever...that person will have his own views on how to build the team going forward.

That's the way it should be however it seems that rumours are flying from all kind of reliable sources that Maclean will get his walking papers in the next few days if they lose any games. One look at the next few teams they are up against will tell you that that is a good bet.

Melnyk said that Bryan assured him that they are a playoff team and I have heard various people on Team 1200 that usually seem to be pretty close to the Sens that management thinks this is a playoff team.

Uncle Eugene doenst like to spend money but he does like to make it to the playoffs to make money.