Where we went wrong.....

[TonySoprano11]

Like a number of you on here, I too am becoming apathetic at the performance of this team over the last several years. As a fan it's difficult to tune in game after game, year after year and see the tires sputtering - a little forward and a little backwards with no real progress being made.

I like Bryan Murray and I think he has a great hockey mind, but I often think what a terrible decision this franchise made back seven years ago after it reached it's highest achievement in modern franchise history.

I cannot recall any other team in any major sport reaching the finals and then replacing their coach and general manager the following season. Why the hell would any team do this? We finally found a successful combination of personnel management and coaching - and then we changed everything the next season.

Bryan Murray was a great coach, he took this franchise further than any other coach had before. He had the right mix of experience, moxy, composure, and nurturing behind the bench. Muckler, for all his faults, did assemble a team worthy of reaching the Stanley Cup finals. We had the single best line in hockey, a speedy puck moving defense with one of the best shutdown pair in the game.

Muckler had, what I believe, is incredible clout and respect in the hockey world. He was able to attract players like Hasek to come to this franchise. He was able to go out, swing a deal, and get the players the team needed when they needed it. Not to mention he was a great negotiator. Remember when he almost had Redden, Chara, and Hossa all locked up to identical deals on salary and term? Redden and Chara were on board but Hossa nixed the deal (all part of the sour relationship and sign/trade afterwards).

The very next season after we went to the finals for the first time in franchise history, we changed GMs and coaches. In the front office we lost the legendary status and respect of Muckler, and turned into a house of nepotism and hardline tactics. Behind the bench we saw a revolving door of Jr level coaches totally destroy the chemistry of this one champion bound team.

Since then we broke up the best line in hockey, and sold them off for spare parts. Our defense became slow, young, and mistake prone. The on ice face of the franchise walked away to play his final year for another team. We have had a revolving door of goaltenders, only finally to be straightened out by a journeyman goaltender who's former team traded him for next to nothing just to move him out of town.

When we look at our team now what real improvements can we see from seven years ago when this horrible decision was made? We tout our prospects but which among them besides Karlsson has really worked? The book is still out on Zbad and Cowen. Silfverberg is gone. Stone, Prince, Puempel, Hoffman, - are these the guys that are going to be bona fide NHL players leading this team (any team) into the stanley cup?

I have been patient, and I know lots of other fanbases have suffered longer, but I am starting to really lose my hope and enthusiasm for this franchise while under the master plan of the Murray clan. I understand why everyone was high on the guy after '07 - but man, its been a long and dark ride under his hand ever since.

Click to read more...

 

[HavlatMach9]

i can't help but be ecstatic with some of the youths on the team and see how they grow

Cowen, Ceci, Karlsson, Zibanejad, Ceci, Lehner, Turris etc

They'll become real good core players

We made the playoffs twice before last season and that was awesome, but that probably put us back a bit, but worth it

 

[L'Aveuglette]

No mention of Melnyk and our lowest payroll in the NHL? I'm convinced that with a bigger payroll we probably aren't so mediocre at this point.

 

[umma gumma]

Like a number of you on here, I too am becoming apathetic at the performance of this team over the last several years. As a fan it's difficult to tune in game after game, year after year and see the tires sputtering - a little forward and a little backwards with no real progress being made.

I like Bryan Murray and I think he has a great hockey mind, but I often think what a terrible decision this franchise made back seven years ago after it reached it's highest achievement in modern franchise history.

I cannot recall any other team in any major sport reaching the finals and then replacing their coach and general manager the following season. Why the hell would any team do this? We finally found a successful combination of personnel management and coaching - and then we changed everything the next season.

Bryan Murray was a great coach, he took this franchise further than any other coach had before. He had the right mix of experience, moxy, composure, and nurturing behind the bench. Muckler, for all his faults, did assemble a team worthy of reaching the Stanley Cup finals. We had the single best line in hockey, a speedy puck moving defense with one of the best shutdown pair in the game.

Muckler had, what I believe, is incredible clout and respect in the hockey world. He was able to attract players like Hasek to come to this franchise. He was able to go out, swing a deal, and get the players the team needed when they needed it. Not to mention he was a great negotiator. Remember when he almost had Redden, Chara, and Hossa all locked up to identical deals on salary and term? Redden and Chara were on board but Hossa nixed the deal (all part of the sour relationship and sign/trade afterwards).

The very next season after we went to the finals for the first time in franchise history, we changed GMs and coaches. In the front office we lost the legendary status and respect of Muckler, and turned into a house of nepotism and hardline tactics. Behind the bench we saw a revolving door of Jr level coaches totally destroy the chemistry of this one champion bound team.

Since then we broke up the best line in hockey, and sold them off for spare parts. Our defense became slow, young, and mistake prone. The on ice face of the franchise walked away to play his final year for another team. We have had a revolving door of goaltenders, only finally to be straightened out by a journeyman goaltender who's former team traded him for next to nothing just to move him out of town.

When we look at our team now what real improvements can we see from seven years ago when this horrible decision was made? We tout our prospects but which among them besides Karlsson has really worked? The book is still out on Zbad and Cowen. Silfverberg is gone. Stone, Prince, Puempel, Hoffman, - are these the guys that are going to be bona fide NHL players leading this team (any team) into the stanley cup?

I have been patient, and I know lots of other fanbases have suffered longer, but I am starting to really lose my hope and enthusiasm for this franchise while under the master plan of the Murray clan. I understand why everyone was high on the guy after '07 - but man, its been a long and dark ride under his hand ever since.

Sigh. Muckler assembled the team? He was the turtle neck to all the work the previous regime had done for him. He just had to come in and put the finishing touches on. Wear the sweater.

Tyler Arneson is exactly what our team needed. We could probably use someone like him now.

His piss poor drafting left behind a massive wake.

 

[Stylizer1]

Like a number of you on here, I too am becoming apathetic at the performance of this team over the last several years. As a fan it's difficult to tune in game after game, year after year and see the tires sputtering - a little forward and a little backwards with no real progress being made.

I like Bryan Murray and I think he has a great hockey mind, but I often think what a terrible decision this franchise made back seven years ago after it reached it's highest achievement in modern franchise history.

I cannot recall any other team in any major sport reaching the finals and then replacing their coach and general manager the following season. Why the hell would any team do this? We finally found a successful combination of personnel management and coaching - and then we changed everything the next season.

Bryan Murray was a great coach, he took this franchise further than any other coach had before. He had the right mix of experience, moxy, composure, and nurturing behind the bench. Muckler, for all his faults, did assemble a team worthy of reaching the Stanley Cup finals. We had the single best line in hockey, a speedy puck moving defense with one of the best shutdown pair in the game.

Muckler had, what I believe, is incredible clout and respect in the hockey world. He was able to attract players like Hasek to come to this franchise. He was able to go out, swing a deal, and get the players the team needed when they needed it. Not to mention he was a great negotiator. Remember when he almost had Redden, Chara, and Hossa all locked up to identical deals on salary and term? Redden and Chara were on board but Hossa nixed the deal (all part of the sour relationship and sign/trade afterwards).

The very next season after we went to the finals for the first time in franchise history, we changed GMs and coaches. In the front office we lost the legendary status and respect of Muckler, and turned into a house of nepotism and hardline tactics. Behind the bench we saw a revolving door of Jr level coaches totally destroy the chemistry of this one champion bound team.

Since then we broke up the best line in hockey, and sold them off for spare parts. Our defense became slow, young, and mistake prone. The on ice face of the franchise walked away to play his final year for another team. We have had a revolving door of goaltenders, only finally to be straightened out by a journeyman goaltender who's former team traded him for next to nothing just to move him out of town.

When we look at our team now what real improvements can we see from seven years ago when this horrible decision was made? We tout our prospects but which among them besides Karlsson has really worked? The book is still out on Zbad and Cowen. Silfverberg is gone. Stone, Prince, Puempel, Hoffman, - are these the guys that are going to be bona fide NHL players leading this team (any team) into the stanley cup?

I have been patient, and I know lots of other fanbases have suffered longer, but I am starting to really lose my hope and enthusiasm for this franchise while under the master plan of the Murray clan. I understand why everyone was high on the guy after '07 - but man, its been a long and dark ride under his hand ever since.

An absolutely great post. I see it as Murray chirping in Melnyk's ear behind Muckler's back and wanting to build up is own team in his hometown. Muckler did sell the farm to get us to the finals but I'd let him do it again if it meant winning like we did. Muckler did benefit from Marshal Johnston but still knew what to do with the pieces.

For me it has taken Murray too long to get us to this point. 7 years of building up our farm team and yet still have no bonafide NHL talent outside of Karlsson. Made a few good trades and a few bad ones. As a poster said in another thread, his moves cancel each other out.

 

[umma gumma]

Muckler did sell the farm to get us to the finals but I'd let him do it again if it meant winning like we did. Muckler did benefit from Marshal Johnston but still knew what to do with the pieces.

Therein lies the problem. Muckler needed someone else to get him the pieces. He couldn't do it again unless someone stocked the cupboard for him. Great GM.

 

[TonySoprano11]

Sigh. Muckler assembled the team? He was the turtle neck to all the work the previous regime had done for him. He just had to come in and put the finishing touches on. Wear the sweater.

Tyler Arneson is exactly what our team needed. We could probably use someone like him now.

His piss poor drafting left behind a massive wake.

I am not saying Muckler was perfect. But when we needed something he went out and got it - even if it didnt pan out in the end he tried. How long have we been trying to get that elusive top six winger under Murray? How long have we been waiting to get that top 4 Dman? We sit and wait while the team loses.

Muckler went out and got us Smolinski when we needed someone of his calibre. He also brought us Bondra - which was a bust, but it's what we needed going into the playoffs. When we needed toughness he brought in Rob Ray. He brought over Corvo and Preissing when our defense needed that speed to compete in the Eastern conference. When we needed a goalie he brought in Hasek.

Murray, had made some good deals too no doubt about it. But he fails to address the teams needs. He makes lateral moves and sometimes signs players for the sake of signing someone (Kovalev, Legwand).

The point is, this franchise made a bad mistake 7 years ago when we tossed out a winning recipe for the promise of something better. Now we are paying for it in spades.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

I am not saying Muckler was perfect. But when we needed something he went out and got it - even if it didnt pan out in the end he tried. How long have we been trying to get that elusive top six winger under Murray? How long have we been waiting to get that top 4 Dman? We sit and wait while the team loses.

Muckler went out and got us Smolinski when we needed someone of his calibre. He also brought us Bondra - which was a bust, but it's what we needed going into the playoffs. When we needed toughness he brought in Rob Ray. He brought over Corvo and Preissing when our defense needed that speed to compete in the Eastern conference. When we needed a goalie he brought in Hasek.

Murray, had made some good deals too no doubt about it. But he fails to address the teams needs. He makes lateral moves and sometimes signs players for the sake of signing someone (Kovalev, Legwand).

The point is, this franchise made a bad mistake 7 years ago when we tossed out a winning recipe for the promise of something better. Now we are paying for it in spades.

Muckler also let a franchise defenseman in Chara walk. He traded Hossa for Heatley and traded Havlat away for peanuts.

Imagine those three on The Senators when they played the Ducks.

 

[umma gumma]

How long have we been trying to get that elusive top six winger under Murray? How long have we been waiting to get that top 4 Dman? We sit and wait while the team loses.

Melnyk

He also brought us Bondra - which was a bust, but it's what we needed going into the playoffs.

He should have went after Kolzig, not Bondra. Scoring wasn't an issue for us when we made the trade.

When we needed toughness he brought in Rob Ray.

Which was useless because Jack Martin didn't play goons. And we still got pushed around.

He brought over Corvo and Preissing when our defense needed that speed to compete in the Eastern conference.

He traded Havlat to get Preissing. I could make that trade. Anyone could. Corvo scared himself out of town.

When we needed a goalie he brought in Hasek.

A head case that quit on the team.

The point is, this franchise made a bad mistake 7 years ago when we tossed out a winning recipe for the promise of something better. Now we are paying for it in spades.

Indeed. Letting Chara walk and zero prospects coming through the system. Thanks Mucks.

 

[BonkTastic]

An absolutely great post. I see it as Murray chirping in Melnyk's ear behind Muckler's back and wanting to build up is own team in his hometown. Muckler did sell the farm to get us to the finals but I'd let him do it again if it meant winning like we did. Muckler did benefit from Marshal Johnston but still knew what to do with the pieces.

Muckler had no freaking clue what to do with the pieces.

a) Traded McEachern away for Pothier (meh)
b) Traded Salo away for Schaefer (we traded away the better player)
c) Traded Klepis for Varada (salvaged his own terrible 1st round bust for a 3rd liner)
d) Traded Tim Gleason for Smolinksi (again, salvaged his botched 1st rounder... the "botched 1st rounder" being a recurring theme)
e) Traded Brooks Laich and a 2nd for three weeks worth of Petr Bondra
f) Traded Rachunek for de Vries (who was so bad with us we had to force Atlanta to take him in the Heatley deal to shed his salary)
g) Traded Radek Bonk for a 3rd rounder (Peter Regin - Bonk was a better player for Nashville & Montreal than Regin ever was for us)
h) Traded Lalime for a 4th (meh)
i) Traded Hossa (and de Vries) for Heatley (boooo)
j) Traded a 2nd round pick (plus Bochenski, whatever) for Tyler goddamned freaking Arnason ('nuff said)
k) Traded Havlat & Smolinski for Tom Preissing/Josh Hennessey/Michael Barinka/ 2nd rounder (dear lord, please, god... no)

... the only... and I mean ONLY trade I can think of that Muckler made that we even came CLOSE to winning was getting Mike Comrie (in his first run with us) for Alexei Kaigorodov. Can you name me a single other trade we won? Any? Any at all? Because right now, I have his record at 1 win and 11 losses.



In fact, I'll go so far as to say that I think we might have ACTUALLY won a cup if we had a different GM. Muckler put us in the hole time and time again, with nothing to show for it. He was part of what PREVENTED us from getting a cup, not what was helping us towards it. Almost every elite player on our team was acquired by other Sens GMs before Mucks got here and "Muck'ed" it all up.

 

[GreatStateofHockey]

The Senators will make moves, be patient. No one expected anything more than a playoff bubble team this year. Melnyk has said that the money will come when Him and Murray think the team is ready to really go for the cup. Sens brass has made big moves before, and will continue to do so when the time is right. The team has a plethora of young players and I'm sure Murray is waiting to see who looks like they can be long term players. I'm convinced that by the end of the season we will trade for a top 6 player from a team that is looking for younger assets and/or cap space.

Joe Pavelski is a player who comes to mind. He's on the wrong side of thirty, but he's the only asset the Sharks can get decent value from. Their younger players are untouchable, and the older guys aren't worth much. At his age, he still has probably five more years of top line play left in him.

 

[Sens Mile]

The Senators will make moves, be patient. No one expected anything more than a playoff bubble team this year. Melnyk has said that the money will come when Him and Murray think the team is ready to really go for the cup. Sens brass has made big moves before, and will continue to do so when the time is right. The team has a plethora of young players and I'm sure Murray is waiting to see who looks like they can be long term players. I'm convinced that by the end of the season we will trade for a young top 6 player from a team that is looking for younger assets and/or cap space.

We are not that long away from being serious powerhouses. We need a bonafide 2nd line center (I'd love Vermette) and another top 3 D. Just bouncing a few guys down makes all the difference. IE: Ryan has been our best player(he makes plays happen on ice, also consistent offence) and he hasnt had a 2nd line C the entire time.

Lets say we poach Perron, sign Vermette in the offseason, and pick up a decent D, watch out.

Though Melnyk needs to open the pocketbook in terms of re-signing Methot, we cannot let D disappear

 

[h2]

I think a big part of the problem with our franchise is absolutely atrocious asset management.

We've allowed multiple star players to walk away during UFA for nothing with Chara, Redden, and Alfredsson. A few other notables like Volchenkov and Kuba, while retaining the worse pending UFA's like Michalek and Phillips instead of trading them off.

We've traded some players for nothing:
- Martin Havlat
- Dany Heatley
- Antoine Vermette
- Ben Bishop

We've also paid a price on some players and not retained them:
- Mike Comrie (twice)
- Matt Cullen
- Ales Hemsky
- Andy Sutton
(We gave up a 2nd for Tyler Arnason as well, but I agree with not retaining him, but it's still horrible asset management)

Just looking at that quickly, that's a lot of top 60 picks that we've given up or not acquired. I love this team, but I don't think I've seen a team so reluctant to trade away pending UFA's as much as Ottawa. You can't afford to constantly turn value into nothing and not feel it after awhile. We should of embraced a rebuild in 09 and actually stuck with it for multiple years and not attempt to rush it after just one year in. That was my number one concern when we started the rebuild in 2011 and it's exactly what happened.

I posted last week that I like our core with Zibanejad/Cowen/Ceci/Lazar/Puempel/Lehner/Turris/Karlsson, and I still do. Realistically speaking, we need 2 1st liners, a power forward, and 2 top 4 defenseman added to our current roster to make us a contender. Unless we have a few prospects that surprise us unexpectedly like Chris Wideman turning into a TJ Brodie, I think we're going to be mediocre for quite awhile until we can go through a few drafts. This is what happens when you don't complete the rebuild the right way. If some very good trades are made in the short-term, that could change things in a big way (Like Neal-Niskanen type).

We'll see what happens. I'm optimistic things will get better.

 

[DrEasy]

Muckler was a horrible GM (especially compared to the guys who preceded him); that's when things went wrong. Bad drafts, bad trades. We're still (slowly) recovering from his blunders under Murray. Not saying Murray has been perfect (he hasn't): his choices of coaches, his radical changes in direction in play styles based on what worked that given year for the Stanley Cup winner, and some of his signings were dubious, but the drafting has been top notch and some of his trades have worked on fine.

Still, it's amazing that we're even this competitive with our current payroll. It's not 100% Melnyk's fault either; being in Ottawa we're just not going to get many bargains in free agency. There's plenty of room under the cap for a top 6 forward and a partner for Karlsson, which would easily push us into the playoffs and more than a round once there.

 

[supsens]

Umm the drafting is a little suspect, the moves have been suspect and after this many years we are still seeing the house murray built, traded heater for poop, traded spezza for poop, traded bishop for poop. traded away a lot of assests for Bobby R and then gave him a huge contract even tho he hasn't produced much in the last few years,
how many bottom 10 finishes have the sens had and what do they have to show for it?

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

No mention of Melnyk and our lowest payroll in the NHL? I'm convinced that with a bigger payroll we probably aren't so mediocre at this point.

Whats the difference on this team if we have max payroll though? Maybe a Clarkson? Only things i think Murray did wrong were coaches and lack of a PMD which crippled the SCFs team.

 

[HavlatMach9]

Whats the difference on this team if we have max payroll though? Maybe a Clarkson?

it would open up more possibilities and change approach. we could consider buying out contracts or absorbing contracts are just examples

 

[Super Cake]

It all went when Melnyk decided to have us be the lowest spending team in the nhl.

 

[HavlatMach9]

i'm happy we traded bishop because he went to bingo to play when he didn't have to, was great and patient in the Blues system as well, and he got a real opportunity to prove himself to the only team that seemed to be interested in tampa.

 

[ErikNorrisson]

Goalie trades are usually a toss up anyways.

Muckler drafted Brian Lee over Kopitar.

 

[BonkTastic]

Whats the difference on this team if we have max payroll though?

1a) Different trade options - not having to settle for low-cost guys like Conacher or Chiasson in return for our outgoing assets when higher priced established guys may have been available

1b) Different trade options - ability to add players mid-season to fill holes through trades - for instance, Murray trying to add to the blueline last year... but not being able to do so due to our strict internal budget that wouldn't budge despite being far lower than most teams

2) Alfredsson probably doesn't leave. Spezza too... though in fairness, it's debatable whether that would have been a good thing or a bad thing, depending on who you ask. Alfie is the important part of this point though.

3) Possibly different/ better UFAs than guys like Legwand or Michalek (or, to take this in another direction - maybe the Bishop & Spezza trades bring back higher payroll guys, and we don't have to sign either of them in the first place).

4) we could buyout guys like Greening, and use cap space elsewhere.

5) We could acquire "overpriced" guys in exchange for assets, ESPECIALLY if you consider how much cap space we have right now. Have someone pay us to make short-term cap space for them.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

1a) Different trade options - not having to settle for low-cost guys like Conacher or Chiasson in return for our outgoing assets when higher priced established guys may have been available

1b) Different trade options - ability to add players mid-season to fill holes through trades - for instance, Murray trying to add to the blueline last year... but not being able to do so due to our strict internal budget that wouldn't budge despite being far lower than most teams

2) Alfredsson probably doesn't leave. Spezza too... though in fairness, it's debatable whether that would have been a good thing or a bad thing, depending on who you ask. Alfie is the important part of this point though.

3) Possibly different/ better UFAs than guys like Legwand or Michalek (or, to take this in another direction - maybe the Bishop & Spezza trades bring back higher payroll guys, and we don't have to sign either of them in the first place).

4) we could buyout guys like Greening, and use cap space elsewhere.

5) We could acquire "overpriced" guys in exchange for assets, ESPECIALLY if you consider how much cap space we have right now. Have someone pay us to make short-term cap space for them.

1) What are some players that were traded recently that would stay in Ottawa or benefit the sens? Considering we tried to get Hornqvist and a more a expensive package from Nashville i dont think the budget had anything to do with getting Chiasson. Plus who else did dallas even have that we'd want that was expensive? Barely anybody wanted Bishop or at least barely anyone was going to give us anything.

2) Considering both alfie and Murray said it wasnt about money and Spezza requested a trade i dont think money had much to do with either of them.

3) Maybe with Ufas we attract a guy like ference, nikitin, Fayne or Clarkson if we over pay like edmonton had to do since were not a very attractive destination outside what kinda money we can offer since were not winning much.

4) I agree with.

5) What are some recent examples of teams doing this? It rarely happens and the return isnt of consequence.

I hate the budget too and think it hinders the franchise but i think its over blown atm. If it stops us from resigning a guy like methot or makes us give out long term contracts with less AAV then a short term one i agree.

 

[BonkTastic]

1) What are some players that were traded recently that would stay in Ottawa or benefit the sens?

You asked a hypothetical question, and I'm giving you a hypothetical answer. You can't expect me to give hard examples in a rebuttal to a hypothetical question. For instance: we have no idea about players who may have been available that didn't get traded. I'm talking in generalities here - "If X happened differently, then Y may have happened differently, because the conditions for X have changed".

2) Considering both alfie and Murray said it wasnt about money and Spezza requested a trade i dont think money had much to do with either of them.

Maybe it wasn't about the money paid directly to them (though I still have my doubts about that, but whatever). What about the money that the team was willing or unwilling to add to the payroll to attract other players outside of Alfredsson? Pretty sure that was part of it.

3) Maybe with Ufas we attract a guy like ference, nikitin, Fayne or Clarkson if we over pay like edmonton had to do since were not a very attractive destination outside what kinda money we can offer since were not winning much.

Or, we could have got Stastny, or Ehrhoff, or Vanek, Cammalleri, or Iginla, or Richards, or Moulson, or others...

Again: Hypothetical question --> Hypothetical answer.

5) What are some recent examples of teams doing this? It rarely happens and the return isnt of consequence,

It's rare because teams with low cap payrolls - the kind of teams who CAN take advantage of teams in a bind at the cap ceiling - usually have internal budgets that prevent them from doing so. Like us. It doesn't happen often because it's rare for a team to BOTH be in the position to have a ton of open cap space midseason, AND have a high enough payroll to absorb more payroll in exchange for assets.

Hypothetically, if we became a cap-ceiling team tomorrow (for argument's sake), we'd be in a prime position to do just that - especially with teams spending this past offseason with the expectation of a rapidly rising cap ceiling, and the reality sinking in not long after that the cap will probably not rise much, if at all, for 2015-16. Chicago is in a huge hole for next year, for example.

 

[Vesa Awesaka]

You asked a hypothetical question, and I'm giving you a hypothetical answer. You can't expect me to give hard examples in a rebuttal to a hypothetical question. For instance: we have no idea about players who may have been available that didn't get traded. I'm talking in generalities here - "If X happened differently, then Y may have happened differently, because the conditions for X have changed".

Not hard to answer. Identify some player traded recently that were expensive and who want to resign on a team thats not winning. That is my question. I think even in a limited scope you could narrow down guys who wouldny fit are budget who might be on the block or might interest the sens. Heck we even have an example under the budget era where the team was willing to take on salary in Spezza to nashville/B]

Maybe it wasn't about the money paid directly to them (though I still have my doubts about that, but whatever). What about the money that the team was willing or unwilling to add to the payroll to attract other players outside of Alfredsson? Pretty sure that was part of it.

Fair point.


Or, we could have got Stastny, or Ehrhoff, or Vanek, Cammalleri, or Iginla, or Richards, or Moulson, or others...

Again: Hypothetical question --> Hypothetical answer.

All of those players wanted to go to a contender or had destinations in mind. Richards is making less then Legwand, no? Cammalair is the only one that can we argued that we had a shot at.

It's rare because teams with low cap payrolls - the kind of teams who CAN take advantage of teams in a bind at the cap ceiling - usually have internal budgets that prevent them from doing so. Like us. It doesn't happen often because it's rare for a team to BOTH be in the position to have a ton of open cap space midseason, AND have a high enough payroll to absorb more payroll in exchange for assets.

Hypothetically, if we became a cap-ceiling team tomorrow (for argument's sake), we'd be in a prime position to do just that - especially with teams spending this past offseason with the expectation of a rapidly rising cap ceiling, and the reality sinking in not long after that the cap will probably not rise much, if at all, for 2015-16. Chicago is in a huge hole for next year, for example.

Again, what type of return are we talking about for taking a cap dump? A third maybe.

 

[BonkTastic]

Not hard to answer.

Absolutely it is! We have NO IDEA what trades WEREN'T made, either with us, or with other teams. To say that "trades that were talked about but didn't happen" aren't a thing is ridiculous. To say that guys never "get talked about but a trade never happens for a myriad of reasons" is silly.

Identify some player traded recently that were expensive and who want to resign on a team thats not winning. That is my question.

It's silly to speculate like that - for instance, who says we're NOT a contender with an extra $13+mil to play with? Who says we don't trade 4 or 5 assets for some big, high paid players who make us contenders? And if we're contenders, maybe they stay? We're talking strictly in hypotheticals here - having a larger payroll gives us FAR more options to operate. I can't see how that's a hard concept to grasp, and I don't see why we need examples of trades made between OTHER teams to somehow justify it. The entire landscape changes with $13+ mil in usable open cap space.

Heck we even have an example under the budget era where the team was willing to take on salary in Spezza to nashville

If Nashville takes Spezza, they don't make the Neal trade. Budget for them probably stays roughly the same, give or take a mil or two. They weren't willing to take on more salary than they already are.

All of those players wanted to go to a contender or had destinations in mind.

Who is to say we wouldn't have been more of a contender or destination if we were a cap-ceiling team, or closer to it?

Again -> hypothetical question, hypothetical answers.