When does McLellan get fired?

[ManofSteel55]

There's a Rishaug video on TSN about the coaches. I'm unable to grab the link but it's on the right side of the main page. He doesn't think McLellan is on the hotseat but thinks an assistant being let go is at least being considered.

McLellan also took the blame for the PK today at his press conference.

As well he should. It's his job to ensure that the right coaches are in place to give us adequate special teams, and if his assistants aren't getting the job done, fixing the issue himself. To me, its completely a system issue. We have guys who should be decent PK'ers. Letestu has been a good PK guy in the past. Kassian was good on the PK last year. Larsson was good on the PK in New Jersey. McDavid has looked like a good PK'er in his limited time there, although I admit it isn't ideal to have him do it. Nuge has been a good PK'er. Russell has always been an adequate second PK pair guy. Sekera can PK. So what's broken? The system, and maybe the work ethic of the players. But I blame the system, and the system gets hung on the coaches.

 

[ManofSteel55]

The biggest thing isn't that we moved on from Hendricks, Lander and Pouilot. The problem is we didn't bring in a lot to replace them. We moved our 3,6 and 7 forward with regards to TOI on the PK. As well Sekera was our #1 d-man on the PK

We brought Jokinen in so that should've helped a bit, but it didn't. Even so there wasn't enough brought in to fill the voids.

With that being said I think our PK has been garbage going back into late last year, could be wrong but I thought that's what I heard on Gregor's show.

Lander is a non-factor here, he wasn't going to make the team anyway. Hendricks looked done for us last year, I'm glad that he is playing well in Winnipeg, and although I was okay with losing him at the time, in retrospect, we are missing him a lot more than I think most expected. Probably in the locker room just as much as on the ice. Pouliot was underrated as a PK guy, I think Chiarelli had hoped that Jokinen would be a cheap replacement, as you mentioned, but he failed hard.

 

[CycloneSweep]

As well he should. It's his job to ensure that the right coaches are in place to give us adequate special teams, and if his assistants aren't getting the job done, fixing the issue himself. To me, its completely a system issue. We have guys who should be decent PK'ers. Letestu has been a good PK guy in the past. Kassian was good on the PK last year. Larsson was good on the PK in New Jersey. McDavid has looked like a good PK'er in his limited time there, although I admit it isn't ideal to have him do it. Nuge has been a good PK'er. Russell has always been an adequate second PK pair guy. Sekera can PK. So what's broken? The system, and maybe the work ethic of the players. But I blame the system, and the system gets hung on the coaches.

You can tell its the systems because the more work they put into the PK the worse it has gotten. They worked on it a bunch yesterday. I wonder how bad it will be tonight.

 

[joestevens29]

Lander is a non-factor here, he wasn't going to make the team anyway. Hendricks looked done for us last year, I'm glad that he is playing well in Winnipeg, and although I was okay with losing him at the time, in retrospect, we are missing him a lot more than I think most expected. Probably in the locker room just as much as on the ice. Pouliot was underrated as a PK guy, I think Chiarelli had hoped that Jokinen would be a cheap replacement, as you mentioned, but he failed hard.

It's not that any of those guys were going to be back as much as we needed to replace them.

Pouilot was underrated PK as you say.

While Lander was here our PK and FO were really good

Hendricks was our vocal leader.

Yes it was time to move on from them, but when you start losing too many of these small things and bank on Khaira, Slepy, Caggiula and Jokinen to step up then you are setting yourself up for failure.

Like Struds said yesterday we can't wait for guys to fill holes this team needs to bring proven guys in and force guys to work up the lineup. This year one guy was playing lower in the lineup than he should've been. All these little things along with guys taking a step back should've been expected. Yes I do think TM should be better, yes I was okay with PC giving guys a shot. But that plan failed, time for PC to implement plan B and give his coaching staff some more tools.

 

[joestevens29]

You can tell its the systems because the more work they put into the PK the worse it has gotten. They worked on it a bunch yesterday. I wonder how bad it will be tonight.

One thing a caller mentioned yesterday was that he noticed no forward in the defensive zone is taking a look. He said he noticed Cammy's head on a swivel, but that was it.

I'm going to watch this tonight, because awareness should be an easy fix.

 

[ManofSteel55]

You can tell its the systems because the more work they put into the PK the worse it has gotten. They worked on it a bunch yesterday. I wonder how bad it will be tonight.

Well, Maroon is out so maybe we won't have as many to kill.

 

[CycloneSweep]

Well, Maroon is out so maybe we won't have as many to kill.

Still got Kassian to take the dumb ones.

 

[joestevens29]

Another comment(simpson maybe?) that made a lot of sense yesterday. PC and TM want to play a big aggressive game. What comes with playing that way?

A system that results in more penalties maybe isn't the right system when you can't PK.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Still got Kassian to take the dumb ones.

True.

Every time I say "it can't get any worse", these guys prove me wrong.

 

[ManofSteel55]

Another comment(simpson maybe?) that made a lot of sense yesterday. PC and TM want to play a big aggressive game. What comes with playing that way?

A system that results in more penalties maybe isn't the right system when you can't PK.

We might be too slow to play anything but a big, aggressive game.

 

[CycloneSweep]

The only thing I agree with McLellan with is...Our PK is horrible so the team doesn't play with the aggression and pace we did last year that got us wins. Instead the team plays soft but makes the occasional dumb f***ing mistake which leads to a penalty, usually due to frustration which almost auto leads to a goal against.

If this team had a half decent PK they wouldn't be so afraid to play hockey.

 

[joestevens29]

We might be too slow to play anything but a big, aggressive game.

I don't buy it. With the addition of JP now this team should have very similar capabilities speed wise as they did last year. Gryba is now gone to go with Sekera in, so that should also slowly be helping the transition game.

 

[joestevens29]

The only thing I agree with McLellan with is...Our PK is horrible so the team doesn't play with the aggression and pace we did last year that got us wins. Instead the team plays soft but makes the occasional dumb ****ing mistake which leads to a penalty, usually due to frustration which almost auto leads to a goal against.

If this team had a half decent PK they wouldn't be so afraid to play hockey.

One thing I noticed late in 17 was when we did get aggressive we'd make a mistake that resulted in a goal. Then guys became timid again.

I think there is just too much mentally mind f***ing them at home and on the PK.

 

[CycloneSweep]

One thing I noticed late in 17 was when we did get aggressive we'd make a mistake that resulted in a goal. Then guys became timid again.

I think there is just too much mentally mind ****ing them at home and on the PK.

A lot of this is coaching, Todd can't get teams out of funks. Happened to San Jose CONSTANTLY in the playoffs. Hit some adversity and they would crumble. Roster was too good to be too bad in the regular season but when it came to playoffs....he could never get the team over that struggle.

 

[joestevens29]

A lot of this is coaching, Todd can't get teams out of funks. Happened to San Jose CONSTANTLY in the playoffs. Hit some adversity and they would crumble. Roster was too good to be too bad in the regular season but when it came to playoffs....he could never get the team over that struggle.

People seem to assume that a team is guaranteed a cup if they have a great makeup.

Only one team can win. Just because he couldn't win a cup doesn't mean he was a bad coach.

 

[Digger12]

If were bringing back anyone its Sather! Only good GM this org has had.

Sather is 74 years old and likely a year or two away from retirement. I highly doubt returning to Edmonton is in the cards.

 

[joestevens29]

Sather is 74 years old and likely a year or two away from retirement. I highly doubt returning to Edmonton is in the cards.

Retirement, he damn near was dead in New York with cancer

 

[CycloneSweep]

People seem to assume that a team is guaranteed a cup if they have a great makeup.

Only one team can win. Just because he couldn't win a cup doesn't mean he was a bad coach.

It had nothing to do with not winning the cup. It had to do with the complete and utter collapses.
They lost after being up 3-0 in a series.
They missed playoffs, shit canned him and then made it to the cup finals.

 

[joestevens29]

It had nothing to do with not winning the cup. It had to do with the complete and utter collapses.
They lost after being up 3-0 in a series.
They missed playoffs, **** canned him and then made it to the cup finals.

Yet they couldn't make it passed the Oilers last year. A team a lot of you thought was no good lots of time last yera

 

[ManofSteel55]

If were bringing back anyone its Sather! Only good GM this org has had.

Slats hasn't been a good GM in years. Time has passed him by. The guy is a legend, but if we were to purge Chiarelli, there have to be dozens of better options out there.

 

[Drivesaitl]

and yet Hendricks plays more on the PK for Winnipeg than any other forward

"Pouliot and Lander were the the Oilers best pk forwards last season by a wide margin. Pakarinen had been the best looking one this season (was also good on unit in 2015-16) until the team figured they didn't need him. We also lost Korpi who was at lest good on the pk a couple seasons ago. Hendricks is a factor too, because even though he was no longer good on the pk last year, he was good on it previously and so that he wasn't really replaced either. If one looks at the unit attrition of the pk over the last couple seasons its fairly severe. What we have retained forward wise is Kass, Letestu, RNH, Cagg. This year I don't even trust Kass, Letestu, or Cagg at evens.

Sometimes theres just a slow bleedout of a unit that hits a point where just losing 2 players in the rotation every year can be a quantum shock. The Oilers have tried force feeding Nuge into the pk chipper and he's just not that great at it. Ditto for Cagg. Nuge and Cagg showed better on the unit last season but I think some scouting has occurred since then and that they are getting exploited.

For instance opponent PP's can move it around all day at the point and often not get pressured if the passes are half ass reasonable. Anytime theres trouble with control and open ice on a PP what I note is they will move it down, get us to collapse, and then move it back up and immediately they have miles. We give up so much space at the point that opponents could work pass shot deflections all day if they wanted to, undeterred.
"
.

At the risk of quoting myself I see the pk is still getting beat like a rented mule the same way. Hey Nuge, McD, wave your sticks just like this and be 40 feet from the point and allow the Ducks all day to work a pass shot from the point. The ducks may have well read my post and done nothing else in this game and get a point out of it.

 

[ManofSteel55]

I remember we used to have a pretty good PP and PK under Ralph Kruger. 5 on 5, not so much, and the coyotes were howling. And with a ****ty roster to boot, he was canned after 48 games.

Ralph Kruger being let go is probably the biggest mistake the Lowe front office ever made, and that's saying something. That said, with Ralph behind the bench we probably don't have McDavid.

 

[Digger12]

I still can't accept that the PK is 100% a coaching issue. If it were, then why the heck are the Oilers the 5th best PK unit in the entire NHL when away from home? Do the coaches suddenly become geniuses when they leave the Edmonton city limits?

55.5% at home, 85.1% on the road. That is an unheard of delta between home and road PK work, looking back over the past 3 years for every team the biggest % difference you see is around 10-11%. These players need a psychiatrist as much as they need a different coaching voice, if not more so.

 

[joestevens29]

I still can't accept that the PK is 100% a coaching issue. If it were, then why the heck are the Oilers the 5th best PK unit in the entire NHL when away from home? Do the coaches suddenly become geniuses when they leave the Edmonton city limits?

55.5% at home, 85.1% on the road. That is an unheard of delta between home and road PK work, looking back over the past 3 years for every team the biggest % difference you see is around 10-11%. These players need a psychiatrist as much as they need a different coaching voice, if not more so.

Why would it be the coaches? The message stays the same. It's the players that for whatever reason can't play at home. Not the first time we've seen this.

 

[Digger12]

Ralph Kruger being let go is probably the biggest mistake the Lowe front office ever made, and that's saying something. That said, with Ralph behind the bench we probably don't have McDavid.

The biggest mistake wasn't firing Krueger (who IMO was ideal as an assistant coach but not so much as the head coach), it was who they hired to replace him.

Without a doubt, Dallas Eakins was the most disastrous head coach the franchise ever had, even more than the infamous George Burnett because as bad as Burnett was, at least Sather realized his mistake fairly quickly and turfed him after only half a season.