What's the minimum return for which you'd trade Komarov at the deadline?

[moon111]

I hate saying this. But I can't imagine what a Komarov would do for a team like Montreal, especially since their RW situation has been messed up through a bad buy-out, signing, trade, and injury. Looking at it, could he be the difference maker? How do you like Montreal's odds in the playoffs with a Komarov? How much would a team pay to top up the team that's spent years drafting and developing to get to the pinnacle and might just need the one extra piece?

 

[Tak7]

Sure, I understand the logic. Works specifically well in the stock market, however we are talking about building a competitive team. There are many paths to developing this, many people think rebuild as in CHI/EDM/NYI route that is sell everything.

That being said, there is a developmental aspect of rebuilding that is often forgotten. The Leafs brought in two key guys that share this philosophy. This rebuild isn't about sell high, so much as its put the right people in the right places for those coming through the system.

This rebuild, at this phase, is about selling. Period.

It's why guys like Grabner, Matthias, Spaling, Parenteau, Boyes, Clune, and Polak will have new homes at the deadline as long as the Leafs can find suitors.

Culture is the most overrated thing in sports.

You know what builds culture?

Winning.

You know what changes culture?

A losing team turning into a winning team.

A 1st round pick is no sure thing, but neither is anything Komarov is producing right now being remotely sustainable heading into the 2nd half of the season.

And if you take his offense away, and he regresses back to his more normal output, he turns into just another gritty forward who works hard, tries to lead by example, and is a good role model for the younger players - something that you can easily replace in free agency.

 

[Tak7]

I hate saying this. But I can't imagine what a Komarov would do for a team like Montreal, especially since their RW situation has been messed up through a bad buy-out, signing, trade, and injury. Looking at it, could he be the difference maker? How do you like Montreal's odds in the playoffs with a Komarov? How much would a team pay to top up the team that's spent years drafting and developing to get to the pinnacle and might just need the one extra piece?

I don't think teams would look at Komarov as the "one extra piece" to put them over the top.

Which is why I maintain that if you can get a 2nd for him at the deadline, you move him.

Trade high for a player that isn't going to be apart of the turn around.

 

[Menzinger]

If moving a single depth player is enough to shatter the "culture" and cohesion of a team - than it was a fragile one to begin with.

 

[Seras]

Keep him till his final year and then move him or keep him

 

[Tak7]

Keep him till his final year and then move him or keep him

What if it's this scenario:

Move him at the deadline this year = 2nd round pick

Moving him at the final year = 5th round pick

Do you still want the same thing?

 

[Pi]

I'd try to trade him to the Bruins for SJ's pick.

 

[Stand Witness]

This rebuild, at this phase, is about selling. Period.

It's why guys like Grabner, Matthias, Spaling, Parenteau, Boyes, Clune, and Polak will have new homes at the deadline as long as the Leafs can find suitors.

Culture is the most overrated thing in sports.

You know what builds culture?

Winning.

You know what changes culture?

A losing team turning into a winning team.

A 1st round pick is no sure thing, but neither is anything Komarov is producing right now being remotely sustainable heading into the 2nd half of the season.

And if you take his offense away, and he regresses back to his more normal output, he turns into just another gritty forward who works hard, tries to lead by example, and is a good role model for the younger players - something that you can easily replace in free agency.

Ya. The LA Kings were the model for a hard working culture and the team to be. They clearly don't have as many character guys as we all thought.

Richards (Arrest/Issues in Philly)
Doughty (alleged)
Carter (Issues in Philly)
Stoll (Cocaine)
Voynov (Arrest)
etc...

Character clearly isn't as big of a contributor as some want to believe. Everyone is a loser until they are a winner. Everyone is a bad leader until they are a winner. Every team has locker room issues until they are a winner. Every player is a choker until they are a winner. Every coach has problems until they are a winner. Heck, even a HOF quality player is questioned until they are a winner.

In reality, being a winner changes everything. There will always be question marks until you are a winner.

Only 1134 people have won a Stanley Cup, can't only be looking for them.

 

[exporta]

This rebuild, at this phase, is about selling. Period.

It's why guys like Grabner, Matthias, Spaling, Parenteau, Boyes, Clune, and Polak will have new homes at the deadline as long as the Leafs can find suitors.

Culture is the most overrated thing in sports.

You know what builds culture?

Winning.

You know what changes culture?

A losing team turning into a winning team.

A 1st round pick is no sure thing, but neither is anything Komarov is producing right now being remotely sustainable heading into the 2nd half of the season.

And if you take his offense away, and he regresses back to his more normal output, he turns into just another gritty forward who works hard, tries to lead by example, and is a good role model for the younger players - something that you can easily replace in free agency.

I disagree with your assessment of both culture and Komarov minus his recent surge.

I am sure you are a hockey player, so you understand what it's like to play with someone who always brings it. It makes you pull up your socks and get to work. Many former NHL players have commented on what a player that brings it every shift does to the team around them. Babcock talks about it all the time. Even Lou has commented on this, a spark shall you say.

All the players you have mentioned have 1 year remaining on their contracts, and in large part were brought in to 1. Fill a roster so the young talented kids didn't walk into a mess (i.e. Edmonton) 2. Try to build some value so that they could acquire picks. These are basically moving parts, not burning down the house. 3. Give the Leafs first right of refusal (words spoken by Babcock).

You clearly are entitled to your opinion, and for some teams that's the method they would go down. I believe this current management group feels differently and I am liking what they have done.

There has to be a really substantial offer to get Komarov off this team. A 2nd is hardly worth it, nor is a late round 1st. We have plenty of picks and have other assets to acquire more.

There are only so many young kids that can make the NHL.

 

[moon111]

I don't think teams would look at Komarov as the "one extra piece" to put them over the top.

Which is why I maintain that if you can get a 2nd for him at the deadline, you move him.

Trade high for a player that isn't going to be apart of the turn around.

Here's what a 2nd round pick gets you in the last few years:

• Linden Vey,
• Chris Stewart,
• Tyler Kennedy,
• David Rndblad & Mathieu Brisebois
• Lubomir Visnovsky

 

[Jozay]

If its strictly picks we're talking about here, then a 1st from a good team.

 

[Jozay]

Keep him till his final year and then move him or keep him

odds of him doing as well as he has this year is slim.

 

[i1]

He hits, he scores, he agitates, he's won internationally and in the KHL, he energises the team, Mike "God" Babcock himself even said he was the most competitive player on the team. Keep our future captain please.

 

[Anthrax442]

He is more valuable to us than what teams will be willing to give up.

 

[cupcrazyman]

No way we get a 1st straight up for Komarov.

Keep him & he can keep leading by example.

 

[Ovate]

Bottom 6 player with grit that can chip in some offense, show good leadership, that can be signed for cheap under 30 years old?

The free agent pool is full of them every year.

I don't think his offense is sustainable. That's what is clouding judgment for a lot of people here; they think that a 28 year old playing in just his second season in the NHL has just morphed into a 30 goal / 50 point guy.

I don't think Leo Komarov is a 30 goal / 50 point guy, in much the same way I didn't think Nikolai Kulemin was a 30 goal guy despite many people saying the same thing about him here.

You still think of Komarov as a bottom 6 player, which is why your evaluation is different. Even if he were shooting at a normal S%, he would be on pace for over 40 points. In today's NHL, that's top 6. A 3M top 6 player who drive possession, can PK, plays physical, and has "cultural intangibles" is worth more than a 2nd.

It's interesting that you bring up that Komarov is a 28 year old in just his second full NHL season. I'd say that's actually a point in his favour, compared to other 28 year olds. Komarov is relatively new to the NHL, and therefore it makes sense that he's showing improvement.

Kulemin was never good defensively or driving possession. And he still got more than Komarov is getting.

 

[Hero]

Minimum: 2nd Rounder + 3rd Rounder
Ideal: 1st Rounder

Exactly this

 

[Tak7]

Here's what a 2nd round pick gets you in the last few years:

• Linden Vey,
• Chris Stewart,
• Tyler Kennedy,
• David Rndblad & Mathieu Brisebois
• Lubomir Visnovsky

Really?

Here's what a 2nd round pick actually gets you in the last few years:

• Ryan Spooner
• Daniel Sprong
• PK Subban
• Shae Weber
• James Neal
• Paul Stastny
• Jake Allen
• Derek Stepan
• Ryan O'Reilly
• Tomas Tatar
• Justin Faulk
• Ty Rattie
• John Gibson
• Brandon Saad
• Johan Sundstrom
• Nicky Petan

 

[Tak7]

You still think of Komarov as a bottom 6 player, which is why your evaluation is different. Even if he were shooting at a normal S%, he would be on pace for over 40 points. In today's NHL, that's top 6. A 3M top 6 player who drive possession, can PK, plays physical, and has "cultural intangibles" is worth more than a 2nd.

It's interesting that you bring up that Komarov is a 28 year old in just his second full NHL season. I'd say that's actually a point in his favour, compared to other 28 year olds. Komarov is relatively new to the NHL, and therefore it makes sense that he's showing improvement.

Kulemin was never good defensively or driving possession. And he still got more than Komarov is getting.

You are right - I am still not convinced Komarov is considered a middle 6 forward currently.

A (very good) 34 game stretch isn't a long enough sample size for me to be convinced that anything he is doing is sustainable, up against the previous 9+ years as a pro hockey player.

That's the beauty of this place though - lots of different people with lots of different opinions. I appreciate and understand why there are those that view Komarov as indispensable, I just don't happen to agree with it.

 

[Banic]

Really?

Here's what a 2nd round pick actually gets you in the last few years:

• Ryan Spooner
• Daniel Sprong
• PK Subban
• Shae Weber
• James Neal
• Paul Stastny
• Jake Allen
• Derek Stepan
• Ryan O'Reilly
• Tomas Tatar
• Justin Faulk
• Ty Rattie
• John Gibson
• Brandon Saad
• Johan Sundstrom
• Nicky Petan

I think he meant as a return in trades...

 

[Tak7]

I think he meant as a return in trades...

Leafs aren't trading away any 2nd round pick they get for Komarov.

 

[Advanced stats]

I don't think teams would look at Komarov as the "one extra piece" to put them over the top.

Which is why I maintain that if you can get a 2nd for him at the deadline, you move him.

Trade high for a player that isn't going to be apart of the turn around.

You'd move a 40 point, character winger, who plays every situation; for a second round pick which has a 25% chance of making the NHL? Let alone being as effective as Leo?

How do you not see the failed logic in that... Help..

 

[Menzinger]

You'd move a 40 point, character winger, who plays every situation; for a second round pick which has a 25% chance of making the NHL? Let alone being as effective as Leo?

How do you not see the failed logic in that... Help..

What makes him a "40 point" player?

His current shooting % is unsustainably high - and in his only other NHL season he was on pace for less than 20 points.

Given that the Leafs are a rebuilding team, i'd rather have a 2nd.

I find Leo very entertaining as a player, I just think he's pretty replaceable, and that his current level of play (especially in terms of offense) isn't really representative of his actual skill set.

 

[Advanced stats]

What makes him a "40 point" player?

His current shooting % is unsustainably high - and in his only other NHL season he was on pace for less than 20 points.

Given that the Leafs are a rebuilding team, i'd rather have a 2nd.

I find Leo very entertaining as a player, I just think he's pretty replaceable, and that his current level of play (especially in terms of offense) isn't really representative of his actual skill set.

Where do you get the less than 20 points pace?
Last season he scored at a 34 point pace
This season he is scoring at a 58 point pace.(I agree its unsustainable)
By no means is it a stretch to call him a 40 point player. And you can't use the sample size argument because over this current NHL stint(96 games) he's scoring at a pace well over 40 points a season.

Very hard to replace a responsible player with his skill set and work ethic. And to have players consistently on your team through a rebuild as opposed to a turnover of players is very important.
A second round pick simply doesn't justify trading him.

 

[dirk41]

Really?

Here's what a 2nd round pick actually gets you in the last few years:

• Ryan Spooner
• Daniel Sprong
• PK Subban
• Shae Weber
• James Neal
• Paul Stastny
• Jake Allen
• Derek Stepan
• Ryan O'Reilly
• Tomas Tatar
• Justin Faulk
• Ty Rattie
• John Gibson
• Brandon Saad
• Johan Sundstrom
• Nicky Petan

Those are average second round picks?