Salary Cap: What will Hughes do with our 8.8M in cap space heading into the season?

[BaseballCoach]

Hughes has a major challenge on his hands...finding space for the next wave of young players. RHP, Ylonen did enough to warrant a legit shot next season. I understand the concept of not disrespecting a veteran by waiving them and sending them down but it happens. No way Ylonen gets waived imo.

Ylonen will not get waived if he is in the top 14 F.

I'm expecting a 2 year, one-way deal for Jesse at around $800k.

Gurianov got $850k and B. Lemeiux $800k, both one year.

Ian Mitchell $775k.

 

[ReHabs]

The veteran bonuses aren't the concern, the ELC bonuses are.

Montreal doesn't have 8 mil in cap space, they have less than zero cap space (thanks to Bergevin). They have an opportunity to exceed the cap because of LTIR, but they need to be careful with how they manage that. It could be the difference between having no bonus overages next season vs bonus overages and not being able to send Slafkovsky to the AHL/NHL during next season.

This isn't basic arithmetic, its complex accounting with multiple calculation pools. Montreal needs flexibility because Bergevin left them in the crevice from 127 Hours and they need flexibility when maneuvering out of it. If the benefit to moving Price to off-season LTIR is there then they will take it, but its not nearly as simple as you are treating it.

This is all right but you’re purposefully conflating two things

1) we all agree flexibility is important
2) over 5m in cap space is excessive; what seems to be 8m cap space is counter-productive.

That space could be used to acquire assets to trade for futures. Hughes might yet make such a move, it isn’t even August yet. But it’s not right to simply say any amount of cap space is sensible — there is surely an excessive amount and 8m is surely well above that threshold.

 

[eklund the clown]

Cap space is gold

 

[Captain Mountain]

This is all right but you’re purposefully conflating two things

1) we all agree flexibility is important
2) over 5m in cap space is excessive; what seems to be 8m cap space is counter-productive.

That space could be used to acquire assets to trade for futures. Hughes might yet make such a move, it isn’t even August yet. But it’s not right to simply say any amount of cap space is sensible — there is surely an excessive amount and 8m is surely well above that threshold.

Its not actually cap space. Stop thinking about it like that. Montreal is not in the position a team like Chicago is in. It isn't "space". Its also not 8mil in "space".

If the futures Montreal can get by using their LTIR pool are good enough then they will do it, but Montreal absolutely needs flexibility given their recent injury issues and the ELCs on the roster.

 

[ReHabs]

Its not actually cap space. Stop thinking about it like that. Montreal is not in the position a team like Chicago is in. It isn't "space". Its also not 8mil in "space".

If the futures Montreal can get by using their LTIR pool are good enough then they will do it, but Montreal absolutely needs flexibility given their recent injury issues and the ELCs on the roster.

Good point. Well stated.

 

[Sorinth]

There’s very little benefit to a team like the Habs actually, it’s more rationalization to justify any and every move the Habs lean toward. If he did it the other way most people would applaud and say it was the right, most beneficial, most correct move.

The Habs will not be competing and do not need to accrue cap space by the deadline — and if they have space left, it’ll be used in a three team trade to get a minor pick. Otherwise the LTIR thing is a nice-to-have but absolutely not a big deal for a selling, tanking team.

It doesn’t seem like there will be many teams with which we can trade who will be suffering from cap crunches. We’ll see what arbitration brings to the league but by a quick glance I don’t think we should expect another Monahan or Bjorkstrand.

Cap expenditure should be maximally used every year by the trade deadline. Anybody saying otherwise doesn’t understand how the cap works.

I’d throw a 1yr contract of up to 8m at Patrick Kane and hope he’s healed by the TDL. Tarasenko, Toews, etc. One year deals like that. It’s all upside.

The main benefit is that it prevents automatic cap overages for next year. It's nothing major of course and shouldn't prevent taking on a cap dump if the price is right but it's not nothing either. And even though we aren't likely to be competitive that doesn't mean an opportunity for a real hockey trade won't materialize at some point during the season and having the flexibility of accruing cap space can help there.

Now I mostly agree that we should try to use our cap space to acquire assets but to play devil's advocate the downside of your UFA plan is that in order to be worth anything at the TDL they not only need to be healthy but will need to play which means 1 less roster spot for a young guy. Let's not forget Kane couldn't even get a 1st round pick last TDL, so there's a decent argument for it being better to give someone like RHP a real chance in the top-6 and gamble on his development over giving that ice time to a UFA and gamble not only on them being worth something but that the pick(s) actually turn into something. There's also the culture aspect to consider (Hopefully this doesn't re-ignite that debate), the more "mercenary" a team behaves, the more likely it is that the young players will in turn take a more "mercenary" stance during contract negotiations. Toews might make sense if healthy-ish since there's the mentorship aspect to consider (Basically why we signed Monahan), but for the other guys do we really want/expect Kane/Kessel/Tarasenko to be mentors to guys like Slaf?

 

[GordonGraham]

If he wants to stay in Molson good grace like Bergevn did he wont spend a dime

 

[Captain Mountain]

The main benefit is that it prevents automatic cap overages for next year. It's nothing major of course and shouldn't prevent taking on a cap dump if the price is right but it's not nothing either. And even though we aren't likely to be competitive that doesn't mean an opportunity for a real hockey trade won't materialize at some point during the season and having the flexibility of accruing cap space can help there.

Now I mostly agree that we should try to use our cap space to acquire assets but to play devil's advocate the downside of your UFA plan is that in order to be worth anything at the TDL they not only need to be healthy but will need to play which means 1 less roster spot for a young guy. Let's not forget Kane couldn't even get a 1st round pick last TDL, so there's a decent argument for it being better to give someone like RHP a real chance in the top-6 and gamble on his development over giving that ice time to a UFA and gamble not only on them being worth something but that the pick(s) actually turn into something. There's also the culture aspect to consider (Hopefully this doesn't re-ignite that debate), the more "mercenary" a team behaves, the more likely it is that the young players will in turn take a more "mercenary" stance during contract negotiations. Toews might make sense if healthy-ish since there's the mentorship aspect to consider (Basically why we signed Monahan), but for the other guys do we really want/expect Kane/Kessel/Tarasenko to be mentors to guys like Slaf?

The big things that stands out to me with that 8 mil contract are:

1) Its going to make it significantly harder for Montreal to come close to maximizing its LTIR pool.

2) It could mean that Slafkovsky starts the season in the AHL to be cap compliant and if he isn't on the main roster to start the season (i.e. not counting towards the PBP), then Montreal would need to have cap space equal to his cap hit plus potential bonuses (just under 4.5 mil) to call him up.

 

[26Mats]

Hughes has a major challenge on his hands...finding space for the next wave of young players. RHP, Ylonen did enough to warrant a legit shot next season. I understand the concept of not disrespecting a veteran by waiving them and sending them down but it happens. No way Ylonen gets waived imo.

What percentage of fans would be in favor of starting Hoffman and Armia in Laval? 90% or 95%?

Not sure what held Hughes back from sending Dadonov and Drouin down last year (and others) and developing the young players like RHP and Ylonen. Even Belzile has more potential and heart. We could have kept Belzile as the 14th forward and sent Hoffman, Armia, and Pitlick down.

 

[Captain Mountain]

What percentage of fans would be in favor of starting Hoffman and Armia in Laval? 90% or 95%?

Not sure what held Hughes back from sending Dadonov and Drouin down last year (and others) and developing the young players like RHP and Ylonen. Even Belzile has more potential and heart. We could have kept Belzile as the 14th forward and sent Hoffman, Armia, and Pitlick down.

The AHL is for developing young players. The fanbase has been complaining about rushing guys to the NHL and the AHL team not developing anyone for YEARS.

Last season we finally saw guys called up from the AHL and contributing and we're wondering why Hughes didn't rush guys to the NHL?

 

[Tyson]

What percentage of fans would be in favor of starting Hoffman and Armia in Laval? 90% or 95%?

Not sure what held Hughes back from sending Dadonov and Drouin down last year (and others) and developing the young players like RHP and Ylonen. Even Belzile has more potential and heart. We could have kept Belzile as the 14th forward and sent Hoffman, Armia, and Pitlick down.

Pitlick will for sure be waived. There is another buy out time later this summer.

 

[CHfan1]

Pitlick will for sure be waived. There is another buy out time later this summer.

I agree Pitlick will be waived. There is no more buyout windows this off-season for the Habs.

 

[26Mats]

The AHL is for developing young players. The fanbase has been complaining about rushing guys to the NHL and the AHL team not developing anyone for YEARS.

Last season we finally saw guys called up from the AHL and contributing and we're wondering why Hughes didn't rush guys to the NHL?

RHP, Ylonen, and Belzile were ready. They only got in when there were injuries.

Fun fact, Ylonen turns 24 at the start of the season.

 

[Milhouse40]

This is all right but you’re purposefully conflating two things

1) we all agree flexibility is important
2) over 5m in cap space is excessive; what seems to be 8m cap space is counter-productive.

That space could be used to acquire assets to trade for futures. Hughes might yet make such a move, it isn’t even August yet. But it’s not right to simply say any amount of cap space is sensible — there is surely an excessive amount and 8m is surely well above that threshold.

I think we should be creating even more cap space.

One job Hughes as to do is get this team's cap space back on track and put himself in a prime position for any opportunity that could arise. We just got there, I prefer he stays put and wait for opportunities that would be really worth it.

 

[Scintillating10]

This isn't a great draft coming up so doubt he rents it out

 

[ML16]

If there are no more moves, Hoffman and Pezzetta are on waivers to go along with Wideman and Ylonen as well. Then we get under the cap with Price on a 22 man roster. Price is then moved to LTIR after the season starts and we get back our $8.8M in cap space.... which grows as the season moves along. Price on LTIR before the season also craetes $8.8M in cap but that will get reduced when guys go on IR and you got to call up players who chew into that cap space gradually. We could end up with $5M prorated by the TDL. Or less.

This should be our strategy. Unless another Monahan/1st comes along



Agreed. If we spend it, it won't be on a long term commitment. Got to keep it open for younger guys exciting their ELC and/or another potential Dubois situation.

I completely agree with the overarching strategy of fitting Price on IR instead of LTIR at the beginning of the season to gain flexibility afterwards*; leveraging the Habs’ last 2 remaining retention spots during the 2023-2024 cap crunch should indeed yield very interesting assets.

*Since sending down players to Laval to fit Price on IR will essentially be a « paper move » anyways, the Habs will likely not want to take the risk of exposing cheap contracts (Ylonen, ie.) in the midst of a cap crunch and focus of waiver-exempts and inconsequential players such as Wideman and Pitlick.

 

[Miller Time]

When/if Dvo returns healthy, I see Hughes making a move to send him out, taking back some bad expiring cap $ to juice up the return.

That, another deal where we get high pick for taking on expiring cap hit, and trading Hoff with retention to get some more draft collateral seem like the most likely moves.

 

[tinyzombies]

I expect an upgrade on D and a goalie. Hughes said no more tanking, so...

 

[themilosh]

If he wants to stay in Molson good grace like Bergevn did he wont spend a dime

MB holding on (and not using) that $9M cap space asset was a crime of mismanagement

 

[Runner77]

The only move Hughes should be making IMO with the available cap space is to rent it to other teams looking to offload salary with players on a 1 year deal. For 1st round picks, ala Monahan.

Gotta be this, given another flat cap season.

 

[smirob]

I would either go Monahan 2.0 or be the third team in a trade (retain) for prospects/picks.

Ideally we are the third team and we help load up a team ie AVS/VGK so Toronto doesn’t win a cup…and get something in return

 

[BaseballCoach]

Pitlick will for sure be waived. There is another buy out time later this summer.

No more buyouts this summer. We have no one in arbitration.

 

[Habssince89]

I expect an upgrade on D and a goalie. Hughes said no more tanking, so...

I think its smart to have this approach because we all know its just too competitive right now in the division. The Habs actually have a great position because they can start building up their team and still finish out of the playoffs and get a higher pick. They're not going to get worse either, so trying to outtank the worst of the nhl is a fool's errand. I predict we'll have a good first half of the season, but the team will sputter down the stretch as the contenders ramp it up.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

What percentage of fans would be in favor of starting Hoffman and Armia in Laval? 90% or 95%?

Not sure what held Hughes back from sending Dadonov and Drouin down last year (and others) and developing the young players like RHP and Ylonen. Even Belzile has more potential and heart. We could have kept Belzile as the 14th forward and sent Hoffman, Armia, and Pitlick down.

Hughes is trying to establish/maintain good working relations with players and agents around the league. Burying vets in the minors is the best way to undermine this effort. He is trying to make this organization's image as positive as possible in order to maximize his odds when we are competing in free agency for top players.

 

[26Mats]

Hughes is trying to establish/maintain good working relations with players and agents around the league. Burying vets in the minors is the best way to undermine this effort. He is trying to make this organization's image as positive as possible in order to maximize his odds when we are competing in free agency for top players.

So Toronto can bury Simmonds, but we can't bury Armia or Hoffman?

James Neal, Andrew Ladd, the list of vets that have been buried is long and must touch every organization.