Salary Cap: What will Hughes do with our 8.8M in cap space heading into the season?

[Captain Mountain]

Montreal will keep that cap space because it gives them enough space to maneuver Price onto the in-season LTIR instead of the off-season LTIR.

They're probably still toying with Hoffman at 50% as long as it doesn't cost them anything, but they aren't going to add salary unless they get a REALLY good offer.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Just let Molson f***ing pocket it. Not like we have a superstar to pay or something.

 

[JoelWarlord]

What's more value to you?

1) Retain on Hoffman and also eat a contract so we have $1-$2M in cap space and we can play one of Heineman/Farrell on the 4th line
or
2) Just keep Hoffman for one more year like we did with Drouin and Heineman/Farrell play top 6 minutes in Laval. Read for a call up if there is an injury.

I think there is too much of a media/fan storm trying to "get rid" of Hoffman when he is not a problem in the room.

I don't actively want Hoffman booted out the door or anything, but between those two options I would pretty definitively choose option 1 (although taking a cap dump could happen whether or not we move Hoffman). I don't think he's a problem, he's just 33 and his absolute peak theoretical trade value if he goes supernova for the first half would be something like a 2025 2nd from a contender. There's just no real upside at this point so if we can do the Edmundson deal with him I'd rather just move on, and I'd rather have those top 9 and PP minutes go to a player with some semblance of a future with the Habs even if it's just Pitlick.

I don't think the Heineman/Farrell angle really matters either since our forward group is already overloaded. 10 spots are already locked in for Suzuki, Gallagher, Anderson, Dvorak, Armia, Dach, Newhook, Evans, Caufield, and Monahan, with Slafkovsky, Pitlick, Harvey-Pinard, Pezzetta, and (now waiver eligible) Ylonen also competing for 2-3 spots.

 

[WG]

Not according to what I see. We would still be short by around $500k. Pretty sure we would need to go with a 22 man roster with Price included. Pezzetta going to Laval would do it.

Dvorak is the wild card. Is he on IR or LTIR to start the season?

I don't know for certain, but I thought the team needed a compliant 23-man roster for purposes of the initial 83.5M cap compliant roster, I am not sure if you can get under 83.5M by simply sending Pezz or whomever to AHL and running with 22.

And as discussed in the Newhook thread, you can make up the difference by paper demoting guys making > 1.15M (which is the cap savings you get) and adding a guy making less than the waiver threshold.

Ex. send Armia to AHL, sign Ylonen @ 1M (save 150 k)
Send Harris to AHL and add Wideman at 762.5k (save 387.5 k)

That gets you under 83.5M including Price, and leaves a roster with 23 names on it, albeit two (Price, Dvorak) who are injured. Then immediately move Price to LTIR and recall everybody you actually want on the opening night roster.

 

[Sorinth]

I hope this happens.

Gotta find a team that wants to dump a contract. Washington is up against the cap, they don't want to dump Mantha and sign Tarasenko?

I also like the idea of outbidding everyone for a 1 year deal on a UFA that can be flipped at the deadline. Tarasenko 1 year 7.5M. But will Hughes put Armia and Hoffman in Laval to make room for such a player. We already have16 forwards.

I'd honestly not even wait until deadline, just straight up negotiate it all at once. So hypothetically Kane is interested in going to NJ and wants 6m but NJ can't afford that. So we come in with a sign and trade, Kane gets his 6m and the team he wants, NJ gets Kane at a price they can afford (3m) at the cost of a pick/prospect, and we turn 3m of capspace into a pick/prospect. It's a win/win/win but is obviously complicated as all 3-way negotiations are.

 

[Sterling Archer]

Question. Doesn’t Hughes have to spend all of Price’s cap hit from his LTIR to be able to use it? That’s what I understand about Price’s LTIR space.

 

[morhilane]

Question. Doesn’t Hughes have to spend all of Price’s cap hit from his LTIR to be able to use it? That’s what I understand about Price’s LTIR space.

Only if Price is put on LTIR before the season start.

 

[Archijerej]

Montreal will keep that cap space because it gives them enough space to maneuver Price onto the in-season LTIR instead of the off-season LTIR.

What is the benefit of choosing that route? In plain words, if you could be so kind.

 

[ReHabs]

What is the benefit of choosing that route? In plain words, if you could be so kind.

There’s very little benefit to a team like the Habs actually, it’s more rationalization to justify any and every move the Habs lean toward. If he did it the other way most people would applaud and say it was the right, most beneficial, most correct move.

The Habs will not be competing and do not need to accrue cap space by the deadline — and if they have space left, it’ll be used in a three team trade to get a minor pick. Otherwise the LTIR thing is a nice-to-have but absolutely not a big deal for a selling, tanking team.

It doesn’t seem like there will be many teams with which we can trade who will be suffering from cap crunches. We’ll see what arbitration brings to the league but by a quick glance I don’t think we should expect another Monahan or Bjorkstrand.

Cap expenditure should be maximally used every year by the trade deadline. Anybody saying otherwise doesn’t understand how the cap works.

I’d throw a 1yr contract of up to 8m at Patrick Kane and hope he’s healed by the TDL. Tarasenko, Toews, etc. One year deals like that. It’s all upside.

 

[Archijerej]

There’s very little benefit to a team like the Habs actually, it’s more rationalization to justify any and every move the Habs lean toward. If he did it the other way most people would applaud and say it was the right, most beneficial, most correct move.

The Habs will not be competing and do not need to accrue cap space by the deadline — and if they have space left, it’ll be used in a three team trade to get a minor pick. Otherwise the LTIR thing is a nice-to-have but absolutely not a big deal for a selling, tanking team.

It doesn’t seem like there will be many teams with which we can trade who will be suffering from cap crunches. We’ll see what arbitration brings to the league but by a quick glance I don’t think we should expect another Monahan or Bjorkstrand.

Cap expenditure should be maximally used every year by the trade deadline. Anybody saying otherwise doesn’t understand how the cap works.

I’d throw a 1yr contract of up to 8m at Patrick Kane and hope he’s healed by the TDL. Tarasenko, Toews, etc. One year deals like that. It’s all upside.

So basically, we can use accrued cap space to facilitate some other team's trade at the deadline and that's all, correct?

I don't seem to remember those kind of services fetching a good price late into the season, but I might be wrong.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

Hopefully a Monahan 2.0

Murray from Toronto and Myers from Vancouver should be good targets for a 1st.

To a lesser extent, Arvidson and Roy from LA could also be targets.

Can't believe it took 8 posts for someone to say this.

 

[Wats]

With Price on LTIR, according to capfriendly we have 6.99M in cap space.

Montreal Canadiens Salary Cap, Draft Picks, and Player Contracts - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Montreal Canadiens salary cap, contracts, roster, draft picks, salary, cap space, stats, salary cap projections, and daily cap tracking

www.capfriendly.com

But, we have 15 forwards, 8D and 2 goalies under contract. Say Wideman (.760k) and Pitlick (1.1M) get send down. That leaves about 8.85M in cap space. What will Hughes do with all that cap space?

If a second GM plays a season with that much cap space, we know for sure Molson is restricting them from reaching cap ceiling. Bergevin wasted some good seasons like that.

Now it's completely possible Habs just want to try to do another Monahan type trade.

 

[Whalers Fan]

There’s very little benefit to a team like the Habs actually, it’s more rationalization to justify any and every move the Habs lean toward. If he did it the other way most people would applaud and say it was the right, most beneficial, most correct move.

The Habs will not be competing and do not need to accrue cap space by the deadline — and if they have space left, it’ll be used in a three team trade to get a minor pick. Otherwise the LTIR thing is a nice-to-have but absolutely not a big deal for a selling, tanking team.

It doesn’t seem like there will be many teams with which we can trade who will be suffering from cap crunches. We’ll see what arbitration brings to the league but by a quick glance I don’t think we should expect another Monahan or Bjorkstrand.

Cap expenditure should be maximally used every year by the trade deadline. Anybody saying otherwise doesn’t understand how the cap works.

I’d throw a 1yr contract of up to 8m at Patrick Kane and hope he’s healed by the TDL. Tarasenko, Toews, etc. One year deals like that. It’s all upside.

Doesn't it also help in that some bonus money earned this season will go against this year's cap instead of next year's?

 

[Captain Mountain]

I don't know for certain, but I thought the team needed a compliant 23-man roster for purposes of the initial 83.5M cap compliant roster, I am not sure if you can get under 83.5M by simply sending Pezz or whomever to AHL and running with 22.

And as discussed in the Newhook thread, you can make up the difference by paper demoting guys making > 1.15M (which is the cap savings you get) and adding a guy making less than the waiver threshold.

Ex. send Armia to AHL, sign Ylonen @ 1M (save 150 k)
Send Harris to AHL and add Wideman at 762.5k (save 387.5 k)

That gets you under 83.5M including Price, and leaves a roster with 23 names on it, albeit two (Price, Dvorak) who are injured. Then immediately move Price to LTIR and recall everybody you actually want on the opening night roster.

23 is the maximum roster size, not a requirement. Montreal can waive guys or paper them to the AHL to get to a 20 man roster, move Price to LTIR to use the in-season ACSL calculation and then get players back. Note that Montreal would probably paper guys who don't need waivers, Slafkovsky almost certainly wont be one of them.

What is the benefit of choosing that route? In plain words, if you could be so kind.

I'm not sure a plain words explanation works. In short?

1. A better accruable cap space limit (ACSL) calculation = more space to work with.

2. Because of how the performance bonus pool works, its pretty useful for how Montreal given all the players they have that are bonus eligible (both from a call up perspective and dealing with bonuses).

If a team was willing to give Montreal a 1st to take a salary for a year then they'd probably do it, but other than that its better take that flexibility into the season.

 

[Team_Spirit]

Cancel the RBC patch and don't spend to the cap? Or reduce ticket price?

A fan can dream

 

[26Mats]

I'd honestly not even wait until deadline, just straight up negotiate it all at once. So hypothetically Kane is interested in going to NJ and wants 6m but NJ can't afford that. So we come in with a sign and trade, Kane gets his 6m and the team he wants, NJ gets Kane at a price they can afford (3m) at the cost of a pick/prospect, and we turn 3m of capspace into a pick/prospect. It's a win/win/win but is obviously complicated as all 3-way negotiations are.

I really want more picks/prospects from trading vets and using cap space.

So far with the extra picks and prospects from trading vets, Hughes has gotten:
- Newhook (Chiarot 1st)
- Hutson ( Kulak 2nd)
- Barron
- Heineman
- Beck (or Mesar) - (Toffoli 1st) because we rated Mesar ahead of Beck, so if we didn't take Mesar at 26 with the Calgary 1st, and Beck and Mesar were both still available at 33, we would have taken Messar over Beck.
- Still have a pending Calgary 1st
- still have a pending Avs 2nd

5 + 2 (hopefully) good future pieces.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

There’s very little benefit to a team like the Habs actually, it’s more rationalization to justify any and every move the Habs lean toward. If he did it the other way most people would applaud and say it was the right, most beneficial, most correct move.

The Habs will not be competing and do not need to accrue cap space by the deadline — and if they have space left, it’ll be used in a three team trade to get a minor pick. Otherwise the LTIR thing is a nice-to-have but absolutely not a big deal for a selling, tanking team.

It doesn’t seem like there will be many teams with which we can trade who will be suffering from cap crunches. We’ll see what arbitration brings to the league but by a quick glance I don’t think we should expect another Monahan or Bjorkstrand.

Cap expenditure should be maximally used every year by the trade deadline. Anybody saying otherwise doesn’t understand how the cap works.

I’d throw a 1yr contract of up to 8m at Patrick Kane and hope he’s healed by the TDL. Tarasenko, Toews, etc. One year deals like that. It’s all upside.

Habs are down to 2 retention slots left.

1 will be used on Hoffman, so that leaves them with 1 more retention spot and no one good enough for it.

I hope the Habs overpay some good player ship them out, but the Habs need to move a dman and a few forwards to fit players as is.

 

[26Mats]

If a second GM plays a season with that much cap space, we know for sure Molson is restricting them from reaching cap ceiling. Bergevin wasted some good seasons like that.

Now it's completely possible Habs just want to try to do another Monahan type trade.

There may be no Monahan's out there.

I don't think Molson is restricting Hughes. I just don't think Hughes wants to sign older UFA's that will take away playing time from the youth. And, he hasn't yet found a team that will give him a 1st for a bad contract. Hopefully he does before the summer is over!

 

[BaseballCoach]

There’s very little benefit to a team like the Habs actually, it’s more rationalization to justify any and every move the Habs lean toward. If he did it the other way most people would applaud and say it was the right, most beneficial, most correct move.

The Habs will not be competing and do not need to accrue cap space by the deadline — and if they have space left, it’ll be used in a three team trade to get a minor pick. Otherwise the LTIR thing is a nice-to-have but absolutely not a big deal for a selling, tanking team.

Cap flexibility is always good to have. At the trade deadline, we could be in a position to sign AND EXTEND a rental player for a longer term if he fits Hugo's plans.

 

[ReHabs]

Doesn't it also help in that some bonus money earned this season will go against this year's cap instead of next year's?

We don’t have any vets on such contracts so that leaves the rookies. I don’t know the conditions of their contracts but yes — that’s probably the only benefit left.

I'm not sure a plain words explanation works. In short?

1. A better accruable cap space limit (ACSL) calculation = more space to work with.

2. Because of how the performance bonus pool works, its pretty useful for how Montreal given all the players they have that are bonus eligible (both from a call up perspective and dealing with bonuses).

If a team was willing to give Montreal a 1st to take a salary for a year then they'd probably do it, but other than that its better take that flexibility into the season.

They don’t need 8m in cap space just like they don’t need 18m in cap space. A team that won’t be buying at the deadline for the playoffs doesn’t need millions and millions in cap space.

They don’t make hockey sticks with 3000 flex either. Flexibility is useful up to a point, anything beyond that is passivity not flexibility.
Cc @BaseballCoach

Habs are down to 2 retention slots left.

1 will be used on Hoffman, so that leaves them with 1 more retention spot and no one good enough for it.

I hope the Habs overpay some good player ship them out, but the Habs need to move a dman and a few forwards to fit players as is.

Agreed. Hopefully Hughes has something cooking this summer — iirc last summer he made the Monahan move mid August, so we might have something to look forward to…

 

[26Mats]

Habs are down to 2 retention slots left.

1 will be used on Hoffman, so that leaves them with 1 more retention spot and no one good enough for it.

I hope the Habs overpay some good player ship them out, but the Habs need to move a dman and a few forwards to fit players as is.

We're maybe if we're lucky going to get a 4th round pick with that Hoffman retention spot. Imo, it isn't a priority.

If we can trade Savard and/or Dvo and/or Monahan and/or any players we acquire this summer at the TDL for a good return (2nd or better) that should take precedence over using Hoffman for a retention spot.

 

[Adam Michaels]

Reporter: Kent, you have $8.8M to work with. How do you plan to use it?


Kent showing up at the golf tournament in September:

 

[Captain Mountain]

We don’t have any vets on such contracts so that leaves the rookies. I don’t know the conditions of their contracts but yes — that’s probably the only benefit left.


They don’t need 8m in cap space just like they don’t need 18m in cap space. A team that won’t be buying at the deadline for the playoffs doesn’t need millions and millions in cap space.

They don’t make hockey sticks with 3000 flex either. Flexibility is useful up to a point, anything beyond that is passivity not flexibility.
Cc @BaseballCoach

Agreed. Hopefully Hughes has something cooking this summer — iirc last summer he made the Monahan move mid August, so we might have something to look forward to…

The veteran bonuses aren't the concern, the ELC bonuses are.

Montreal doesn't have 8 mil in cap space, they have less than zero cap space (thanks to Bergevin). They have an opportunity to exceed the cap because of LTIR, but they need to be careful with how they manage that. It could be the difference between having no bonus overages next season vs bonus overages and not being able to send Slafkovsky to the AHL/NHL during next season.

This isn't basic arithmetic, its complex accounting with multiple calculation pools. Montreal needs flexibility because Bergevin left them in the crevice from 127 Hours and they need flexibility when maneuvering out of it. If the benefit to moving Price to off-season LTIR is there then they will take it, but its not nearly as simple as you are treating it.

 

[OnTheRun]

Q) What do you do with 8.8M unused cap?
A) You tell the fans the answer is in the room.

Btw we don't have 8.8M in unused cap, we have ~7M in unused LTIR relief.

 

[Tyson]

Hughes has a major challenge on his hands...finding space for the next wave of young players. RHP, Ylonen did enough to warrant a legit shot next season. I understand the concept of not disrespecting a veteran by waiving them and sending them down but it happens. No way Ylonen gets waived imo.