What the Florida Panthers have been doing the last 2 years-long read

[DrJustice]

Unfortunately, there really is no fixing bad ownership in a timely manner.

 

[LeafGrief]

That's a good read, thanks for the write-up.

Sheesh, what a disaster. Terrible decisions all around and a whole lot of "cutting off your nose to spite your face". The Cats have some good pieces and can still be a pretty good team, but the idea of "what could have been" is agonizing.

Interestingly enough, your write up does a very good job showing what both sides did well and both sides did wrong. The analytics guys were very wrong about players such as Psysyk and Demers, but also knocked it out of the park with Marshmallow. Tallon was wrong about Marchessault but right about his coach and Dadanov. If they just could have played nice, the Panthers would probably be contenders.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

There was a scenario in which both Petrovic and Marchessault could have been kept; just protect JAM over Bjugstad and ask literally any other team about taking on Smith/Bjugstad.

You could argue that failing to clear enough cap would have cost them elsewhere (Dadonov?), but with every team losing depth to Vegas, surely there were other options on the table?

I agree. It's just I thought you were implying Vegas would've taken Smith if he was exposed. They would not have.

You are right that without that move there is no Dadonov but March and Smith > Dadonov and Vrbata.

That's a good read, thanks for the write-up.

Sheesh, what a disaster. Terrible decisions all around and a whole lot of "cutting off your nose to spite your face". The Cats have some good pieces and can still be a pretty good team, but the idea of "what could have been" is agonizing.

Interestingly enough, your write up does a very good job showing what both sides did well and both sides did wrong. The analytics guys were very wrong about players such as Psysyk and Demers, but also knocked it out of the park with Marshmallow. Tallon was wrong about Marchessault but right about his coach and Dadanov. If they just could have played nice, the Panthers would probably be contenders.

100% this. Florida is still in good shape for next year and beyond, but you have to wonder what could have been.

 

[Rebels57]

I enjoyed that read. Well done.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Time Rowe was a gong show

 

[kerrabria]

Unfortunately, there really is no fixing bad ownership in a timely manner.

I disagree that ownership is the big problem. Cifu and Viola are not good owners, but I would hotly contest that they are even bottom 10.

1) They fought hard to keep the team in South Florida
2) They did their best in regards to the location of the arena and extending the lease. Having a team in Miami was never going to end well, Broward is where it needs to be, even if ideally it could be twenty minutes to the east.
3) They owned up to their mistakes of 2016-17 when they fired the analytics guys, Rowe, and put Tallon back. I will always appreciate them for admitting their mistakes instead of doubling down as is tradition in the hockey world.
4) They gave us these fly new uniforms a much more modern logo.

This is where I'm gonna have to challenge my man @ucanthanzalthetruth on his narrative that ownership was jerking around an innocent Dale Tallon. The real problem is that collectively as a front office the Panthers have the worst situation in the league. A lot of this mess is on Tallon too...probably most of it. I mean, look back at what happened in the breakdown from MY POINT OF VIEW at least...

- The analytics guys made the Smith - Hayes trade. One Tallon would have never done himself because of his obsession with toughness and size, and it looks absolutely amazing. Ownership was willing to eat the Savard contract to get it done, and now Smith is first line wing while Hayes is out of the league. (Fantastic move)

- Gudbranson trade to Vancouver for McCann and a 2nd Round Pick. Everybody knows Gudbranson sucks, and even FLA fans were getting tired of him never improving from 5D status. The "shutdown pairing" he and Kulikov comprised of was absolutely FEASTED upon by the Tavares line all six games of the playoffs, and this was back when that line was Nelson - Tavares - Strome. Both Erik and Kulikov were 4D when playing their absolute best and both were pending UFAs who (as we knew and then would be later proven correct) were gonna ask for the term and AAV of solid middle pair guys. McCann was a young, gritty, skilled, fast forward and recent 1st Round Pick. Getting him for Guds' sorry behind (and a high pick as a plus) was a great call. But Tallon would have never done it because he loved Guds' size and physicality despite Guds never having lived up to be the even serviceable defender Tallon wanted to portray him as. (Great move)

- Traded a 4th for Yandle's rights, and then signed him to a 6.3m x 7y deal. An overpayment by 800k for what he brings, but someone was gonna give him at least 6m, and otherwise a fine deal for a player who should age well. This is not something Tallon would have done though for obvious reasons. (Fine move)

- Kulikov (pending UFA) traded for Pysyk (RFA). For reasons already stated, Kulikov deserved to go. Pysyk himself was a bottom pair defenseman, and the analytics were wrong about him, but better to have a reasonably paid 5D than a very overpaid and injury prone 5D. However, Tallon loved Kulikov, and this was another move that made his blood boil. (Good move)

- Scevior signed for a very good 2 year contract. Idk if Tallon would have done this, but knowing how he likes physical, gritty guys in the bottom 6, I think he would have looked elsewhere for a 4RW (Great move)

- Marchessault signed for an awesome 2 year contract. Tallon would not have done this on the basis of his size and playing style (Great move).

- Reimer signed to a very large deal for a backup. An overpay for what they were planning for him, and eventually an overpay for what he brought (Okay/bad move).

- Howden not qualified and signs with Winnipeg for league minimum. I like Howden, he brought speed and forecheck and hustle, but his analytics were bad, so the nerds released him. Another 1st Round Pick, Tallon style player gone, and I'm sure he was seething (Dumb move)

- Ekblad signed to a massive extension which buys 3 UFA years and would later be only 250k less than what Hedman would sign for. Preemptive and poor. If they had waited a year like everyone knew they should have they could have got him at the ~6m long term that he deserved. (Bad move)

- Demers signs a 4.5m x 5y deal that is called poor and too analytics based, but it looks even worse in the coming months. (Really bad move).

- Smith signs a 5m x 5y contract. Bit preemptive, but probably okay. (Fine move)

- Crouse traded to dump Bolland and we get back a high 2nd. Very un-Tallon like move, but we moved cap at the price of a guy who was already looking like a bad pick, and they were proved right. (Good move)

- Gallant fired and we all know that story. (Terrible move)

Then the injuries, snake bites, and general turmoil of 2016-17 happen, and the owners bite the bullet and replace Tallon, to the joy of all. People are much happier just at the sense of order being brought back amidst the chaos, but take the emotion out of it, and I think most would agree that the actual roster transactions since Rowe had taken over were a net benefit. But the joy is short lived because here is where everything goes to absolute shit. This is where thing go from bad to worse. And it is squarely on Dale Tallon.

The owners tell Tallon to shed salary and get about 10m beneath the cap. He needs to do this while juggling one of the toughest expansion situations in the league. Obviously you protect Huberdeau, Barkov, Trocheck, and Ekblad. Matheson is exempt and Yandle has a NMC.

And this is where Tallon's vengeful, stupid 90s NHL viewpoint completely screwed the team.

The first thing he did was try to trade Demers for Gudbranson. Demers sucked and needed to go, but trading one high cap, low performance d-man for another would be redundant. Demers nixes it with his NTC which is actually good for the Panthers.

So keep in mind, we have 4 NHL ready RHD, and a fifth on the way in Mackenzie Weegar, but Tallon decides to protect BOTH Petrovic and Pysyk. Granted, Pysyk had just had a great season, but he is a 4D at best, and Petrovic is a bottom pair D. Tallon then offers March and his 800k as a way to clear the team of Smith and his 5m which he loses for nothing to Vegas. Tallon then replaces these guys with three Europeans at sub 1m contracts (none of whom can handle the NHL when they are inserted into the lineup), the stiff corpse of Radim Vrbata at 2.5m, boxer on skates Michael Haley at 800k, and buys out Jokinen saving like 2.5m. Then, Tallon retains 800k on Demers to trade him to Arizona in exchange for Jamie McGinn. He then signs Dadonov for 4.5m

Doing the above saves the team a whopping... ~100,000 USD!!!

He proceeds to pass up on Gabe Vilardi at the draft, picks Owen Tippett, a sniper RHS, RW who projects to be a 30 goal scorer if he hits his potential. The irony of just have given up a sniper, RHS, RW who had just hit 30 goals for absolutely nothing is not lost on Panthers fans.

If that was his plan, ya know what would have been smarter?
- Screw the minor league Euros (Mamin, Haapala, Repo, Vrbata)
- Screw the enforcer (Haley)
- Screw trying to get Gudbranson back
- Screw buying out Jokinen
- Screw literally saving no money with all these moves

What you do is you offer the 10th OA pick in this very weak draft, along with Jokinen at 50% retained to VGK, on the condition that they take Demers in expansion.

Even if you still went and signed Dadonov, moving Demers and half of Jokinen and not bringing in any of Vrbata, the Euros, or Haley would have saved the team like 4m. Ya know, like 4m more than Tallon actually saved?

But no. Tallon had to do things his way. Tallon had to handle the expansion and the salary sequestration order in the worst way humanly posssible. Tallon is more to blame for this mess than the analytics nerds, and he is significantly more to blame than the owners.

 

[Mike Lowry]

Long story short; bringing in nerds only hurts your franchise. But we already knew that

 

[Burke the Legend]

Long story short; bringing in nerds only hurts your franchise. But we already knew that

Well I'm sure Dubas will be different...

 

[Joe Sakic]

Thank you for posting this OP.

Many times owners should stay un-involved tbh.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I disagree that ownership is the big problem. Cifu and Viola are not good owners, but I would hotly contest that they are even bottom 10.

1) They fought hard to keep the team in South Florida
2) They did their best in regards to the location of the arena and extending the lease. Having a team in Miami was never going to end well, Broward is where it needs to be, even if ideally it could be twenty minutes to the east.
3) They owned up to their mistakes of 2016-17 when they fired the analytics guys, Rowe, and put Tallon back. I will always appreciate them for admitting their mistakes instead of doubling down as is tradition in the hockey world.
4) They gave us these fly new uniforms a much more modern logo.

This is where I'm gonna have to challenge my man @ucanthanzalthetruth on his narrative that ownership was jerking around an innocent Dale Tallon. The real problem is that collectively as a front office the Panthers have the worst situation in the league. A lot of this mess is on Tallon too...probably most of it. I mean, look back at what happened in the breakdown from MY POINT OF VIEW at least...

- The analytics guys made the Smith - Hayes trade. One Tallon would have never done himself because of his obsession with toughness and size, and it looks absolutely amazing. Ownership was willing to eat the Savard contract to get it done, and now Smith is first line wing while Hayes is out of the league. (Fantastic move)

- Gudbranson trade to Vancouver for McCann and a 2nd Round Pick. Everybody knows Gudbranson sucks, and even FLA fans were getting tired of him never improving from 5D status. The "shutdown pairing" he and Kulikov comprised of was absolutely FEASTED upon by the Tavares line all six games of the playoffs, and this was back when that line was Nelson - Tavares - Strome. Both Erik and Kulikov were 4D when playing their absolute best and both were pending UFAs who (as we knew and then would be later proven correct) were gonna ask for the term and AAV of solid middle pair guys. McCann was a young, gritty, skilled, fast forward and recent 1st Round Pick. Getting him for Guds' sorry behind (and a high pick as a plus) was a great call. But Tallon would have never done it because he loved Guds' size and physicality despite Guds never having lived up to be the even serviceable defender Tallon wanted to portray him as. (Great move)

- Traded a 4th for Yandle's rights, and then signed him to a 6.3m x 7y deal. An overpayment by 800k for what he brings, but someone was gonna give him at least 6m, and otherwise a fine deal for a player who should age well. This is not something Tallon would have done though for obvious reasons. (Fine move)

- Kulikov (pending UFA) traded for Pysyk (RFA). For reasons already stated, Kulikov deserved to go. Pysyk himself was a bottom pair defenseman, and the analytics were wrong about him, but better to have a reasonably paid 5D than a very overpaid and injury prone 5D. However, Tallon loved Kulikov, and this was another move that made his blood boil. (Good move)

- Scevior signed for a very good 2 year contract. Idk if Tallon would have done this, but knowing how he likes physical, gritty guys in the bottom 6, I think he would have looked elsewhere for a 4RW (Great move)

- Marchessault signed for an awesome 2 year contract. Tallon would not have done this on the basis of his size and playing style (Great move).

- Reimer signed to a very large deal for a backup. An overpay for what they were planning for him, and eventually an overpay for what he brought (Okay/bad move).

- Howden not qualified and signs with Winnipeg for league minimum. I like Howden, he brought speed and forecheck and hustle, but his analytics were bad, so the nerds released him. Another 1st Round Pick, Tallon style player gone, and I'm sure he was seething (Dumb move)

- Ekblad signed to a massive extension which buys 3 UFA years and would later be only 250k less than what Hedman would sign for. Preemptive and poor. If they had waited a year like everyone knew they should have they could have got him at the ~6m long term that he deserved. (Bad move)

- Demers signs a 4.5m x 5y deal that is called poor and too analytics based, but it looks even worse in the coming months. (Really bad move).

- Smith signs a 5m x 5y contract. Bit preemptive, but probably okay. (Fine move)

- Crouse traded to dump Bolland and we get back a high 2nd. Very un-Tallon like move, but we moved cap at the price of a guy who was already looking like a bad pick, and they were proved right. (Good move)

- Gallant fired and we all know that story. (Terrible move)

Then the injuries, snake bites, and general turmoil of 2016-17 happen, and the owners bite the bullet and replace Tallon, to the joy of all. People are much happier just at the sense of order being brought back amidst the chaos, but take the emotion out of it, and I think most would agree that the actual roster transactions since Rowe had taken over were a net benefit. But the joy is short lived because here is where everything goes to absolute ****. This is where thing go from bad to worse. And it is squarely on Dale Tallon.

The owners tell Tallon to shed salary and get about 10m beneath the cap. He needs to do this while juggling one of the toughest expansion situations in the league. Obviously you protect Huberdeau, Barkov, Trocheck, and Ekblad. Matheson is exempt and Yandle has a NMC.

And this is where Tallon's vengeful, stupid 90s NHL viewpoint completely screwed the team.

The first thing he did was try to trade Demers for Gudbranson. Demers sucked and needed to go, but trading one high cap, low performance d-man for another would be redundant. Demers nixes it with his NTC which is actually good for the Panthers.

So keep in mind, we have 4 NHL ready RHD, and a fifth on the way in Mackenzie Weegar, but Tallon decides to protect BOTH Petrovic and Pysyk. Granted, Pysyk had just had a great season, but he is a 4D at best, and Petrovic is a bottom pair D. Tallon then offers March and his 800k as a way to clear the team of Smith and his 5m which he loses for nothing to Vegas. Tallon then replaces these guys with three Europeans at sub 1m contracts (none of whom can handle the NHL when they are inserted into the lineup), the stiff corpse of Radim Vrbata at 2.5m, boxer on skates Michael Haley at 800k, and buys out Jokinen saving like 2.5m. Then, Tallon retains 800k on Demers to trade him to Arizona in exchange for Jamie McGinn. He then signs Dadonov for 4.5m

Doing the above saves the team a whopping... ~100,000 USD!!!

He proceeds to pass up on Gabe Vilardi at the draft, picks Owen Tippett, a sniper RHS, RW who projects to be a 30 goal scorer if he hits his potential. The irony of just have given up a sniper, RHS, RW who had just hit 30 goals for absolutely nothing is not lost on Panthers fans.

If that was his plan, ya know what would have been smarter?
- Screw the minor league Euros (Mamin, Haapala, Repo, Vrbata)
- Screw the enforcer (Haley)
- Screw trying to get Gudbranson back
- Screw buying out Jokinen
- Screw literally saving no money with all these moves

What you do is you offer the 10th OA pick in this very weak draft, along with Jokinen at 50% retained to VGK, on the condition that they take Demers in expansion.

Even if you still went and signed Dadonov, moving Demers and half of Jokinen and not bringing in any of Vrbata, the Euros, or Haley would have saved the team like 4m. Ya know, like 4m more than Tallon actually saved?

But no. Tallon had to do things his way. Tallon had to handle the expansion and the salary sequestration order in the worst way humanly posssible. Tallon is more to blame for this mess than the analytics nerds, and he is significantly more to blame than the owners.

I have to take issue with this. Viola is a bad owner. He is a meddler and and loudmouth. And the team should be in miami. The main reason why there is so many issues and vultures from up north want to move them is the sunrise location. They should be at American Airlines Arena and receiving the corporate support from the banks in brickell/downtown/wynnewood. Also, the panthers should be a lynchpin for hockey expanding into the latino community. You can't do that from broward.

 

[Melrose Munch]

oh and @ucanthanzalthetruth great write up. Panthers have not had a good owner since Huizenga.

 

[Beezeral]

They deserve more support. It's hard to be competitive when your market doesn't give you a chance.

They deserve more support? Wat? They have missed the playoffs 19 out of 24 seasons. They have been past the first round once. Most years their season is over by January 1st. Hockey is my favorite sport so I have suffered through the misery for 22 years since the 96 cup run, but I don’t expect anyone else to when they have 3 other professional sports teams (2 of which have won multiple titles in that 22 year span) in the market competing for entertainment dollars. Support is earned, it’s not a right.

There isn’t a single argument for why people should be expected to pay money for a bad product.

 

[Beezeral]

I disagree that ownership is the big problem. Cifu and Viola are not good owners, but I would hotly contest that they are even bottom 10.

1) They fought hard to keep the team in South Florida
2) They did their best in regards to the location of the arena and extending the lease. Having a team in Miami was never going to end well, Broward is where it needs to be, even if ideally it could be twenty minutes to the east.
3) They owned up to their mistakes of 2016-17 when they fired the analytics guys, Rowe, and put Tallon back. I will always appreciate them for admitting their mistakes instead of doubling down as is tradition in the hockey world.
4) They gave us these fly new uniforms a much more modern logo.

This is where I'm gonna have to challenge my man @ucanthanzalthetruth on his narrative that ownership was jerking around an innocent Dale Tallon. The real problem is that collectively as a front office the Panthers have the worst situation in the league. A lot of this mess is on Tallon too...probably most of it. I mean, look back at what happened in the breakdown from MY POINT OF VIEW at least...

- The analytics guys made the Smith - Hayes trade. One Tallon would have never done himself because of his obsession with toughness and size, and it looks absolutely amazing. Ownership was willing to eat the Savard contract to get it done, and now Smith is first line wing while Hayes is out of the league. (Fantastic move)

- Gudbranson trade to Vancouver for McCann and a 2nd Round Pick. Everybody knows Gudbranson sucks, and even FLA fans were getting tired of him never improving from 5D status. The "shutdown pairing" he and Kulikov comprised of was absolutely FEASTED upon by the Tavares line all six games of the playoffs, and this was back when that line was Nelson - Tavares - Strome. Both Erik and Kulikov were 4D when playing their absolute best and both were pending UFAs who (as we knew and then would be later proven correct) were gonna ask for the term and AAV of solid middle pair guys. McCann was a young, gritty, skilled, fast forward and recent 1st Round Pick. Getting him for Guds' sorry behind (and a high pick as a plus) was a great call. But Tallon would have never done it because he loved Guds' size and physicality despite Guds never having lived up to be the even serviceable defender Tallon wanted to portray him as. (Great move)

- Traded a 4th for Yandle's rights, and then signed him to a 6.3m x 7y deal. An overpayment by 800k for what he brings, but someone was gonna give him at least 6m, and otherwise a fine deal for a player who should age well. This is not something Tallon would have done though for obvious reasons. (Fine move)

- Kulikov (pending UFA) traded for Pysyk (RFA). For reasons already stated, Kulikov deserved to go. Pysyk himself was a bottom pair defenseman, and the analytics were wrong about him, but better to have a reasonably paid 5D than a very overpaid and injury prone 5D. However, Tallon loved Kulikov, and this was another move that made his blood boil. (Good move)

- Scevior signed for a very good 2 year contract. Idk if Tallon would have done this, but knowing how he likes physical, gritty guys in the bottom 6, I think he would have looked elsewhere for a 4RW (Great move)

- Marchessault signed for an awesome 2 year contract. Tallon would not have done this on the basis of his size and playing style (Great move).

- Reimer signed to a very large deal for a backup. An overpay for what they were planning for him, and eventually an overpay for what he brought (Okay/bad move).

- Howden not qualified and signs with Winnipeg for league minimum. I like Howden, he brought speed and forecheck and hustle, but his analytics were bad, so the nerds released him. Another 1st Round Pick, Tallon style player gone, and I'm sure he was seething (Dumb move)

- Ekblad signed to a massive extension which buys 3 UFA years and would later be only 250k less than what Hedman would sign for. Preemptive and poor. If they had waited a year like everyone knew they should have they could have got him at the ~6m long term that he deserved. (Bad move)

- Demers signs a 4.5m x 5y deal that is called poor and too analytics based, but it looks even worse in the coming months. (Really bad move).

- Smith signs a 5m x 5y contract. Bit preemptive, but probably okay. (Fine move)

- Crouse traded to dump Bolland and we get back a high 2nd. Very un-Tallon like move, but we moved cap at the price of a guy who was already looking like a bad pick, and they were proved right. (Good move)

- Gallant fired and we all know that story. (Terrible move)

Then the injuries, snake bites, and general turmoil of 2016-17 happen, and the owners bite the bullet and replace Tallon, to the joy of all. People are much happier just at the sense of order being brought back amidst the chaos, but take the emotion out of it, and I think most would agree that the actual roster transactions since Rowe had taken over were a net benefit. But the joy is short lived because here is where everything goes to absolute ****. This is where thing go from bad to worse. And it is squarely on Dale Tallon.

The owners tell Tallon to shed salary and get about 10m beneath the cap. He needs to do this while juggling one of the toughest expansion situations in the league. Obviously you protect Huberdeau, Barkov, Trocheck, and Ekblad. Matheson is exempt and Yandle has a NMC.

And this is where Tallon's vengeful, stupid 90s NHL viewpoint completely screwed the team.

The first thing he did was try to trade Demers for Gudbranson. Demers sucked and needed to go, but trading one high cap, low performance d-man for another would be redundant. Demers nixes it with his NTC which is actually good for the Panthers.

So keep in mind, we have 4 NHL ready RHD, and a fifth on the way in Mackenzie Weegar, but Tallon decides to protect BOTH Petrovic and Pysyk. Granted, Pysyk had just had a great season, but he is a 4D at best, and Petrovic is a bottom pair D. Tallon then offers March and his 800k as a way to clear the team of Smith and his 5m which he loses for nothing to Vegas. Tallon then replaces these guys with three Europeans at sub 1m contracts (none of whom can handle the NHL when they are inserted into the lineup), the stiff corpse of Radim Vrbata at 2.5m, boxer on skates Michael Haley at 800k, and buys out Jokinen saving like 2.5m. Then, Tallon retains 800k on Demers to trade him to Arizona in exchange for Jamie McGinn. He then signs Dadonov for 4.5m

Doing the above saves the team a whopping... ~100,000 USD!!!

He proceeds to pass up on Gabe Vilardi at the draft, picks Owen Tippett, a sniper RHS, RW who projects to be a 30 goal scorer if he hits his potential. The irony of just have given up a sniper, RHS, RW who had just hit 30 goals for absolutely nothing is not lost on Panthers fans.

If that was his plan, ya know what would have been smarter?
- Screw the minor league Euros (Mamin, Haapala, Repo, Vrbata)
- Screw the enforcer (Haley)
- Screw trying to get Gudbranson back
- Screw buying out Jokinen
- Screw literally saving no money with all these moves

What you do is you offer the 10th OA pick in this very weak draft, along with Jokinen at 50% retained to VGK, on the condition that they take Demers in expansion.

Even if you still went and signed Dadonov, moving Demers and half of Jokinen and not bringing in any of Vrbata, the Euros, or Haley would have saved the team like 4m. Ya know, like 4m more than Tallon actually saved?

But no. Tallon had to do things his way. Tallon had to handle the expansion and the salary sequestration order in the worst way humanly posssible. Tallon is more to blame for this mess than the analytics nerds, and he is significantly more to blame than the owners.

The only difference of opinion I have is that ownership absolutely deserves blame for refusing to commit to a path and sticking to it. They gave the analytic approach one season then punted on it almost immediately despite all of the obvious thing like injuries that went against them. Fire Rowe for how he handled everything post Gallant, absolutely. Maybe even bring Tallon back as the top of the food chain but with the caveat that the calculator boys get a real voice in the decisions. You don’t make major course corrections in back to back seasons.

They compounded their mistake by giving Tallon free reign to fix it however he wanted even knowing that getting rid of some of those Tallon darlings was the right decision. The knock on Tallon for years has been his obsession with “his” guys and what he thinks a hockey player should look like. Literally the first thing he did after taking back control was ship out two guys that didn’t fit his mold and weren’t “his” guys for a 4th round pick and it is already one of the worst moves in recent NHL history. Instead of admitting that his mold of what an nhl player must look like needs to change with the times, we have gotten the same song and dance from him this offseason. Tallon is living the cliche of you can’t teach an old dog new tricks.

How anyone above Tallon thought it was a good idea to give him back control without first making sure he wasn’t going to do something this idiotic is unbelievable. Everyone knew Tallon’s major flaw and gave him the rope to make this mistake anyway. Ownership absolutely has to own that.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

TLDR: You're welcome Vegas

 

[Sticksandsun]

This saga is the state of Florida in a nutshell.

 

[ucanthanzalthetruth]

Thank you again for the kind words.

 

[Brockon]

What everyone is overlooking is the additional cap implications in a non traditional hockey market, that was struggling with attendance issues. The Panthers aren't a huge draw and sell out the way TOR, NYR, BOS, CHI or PIT are. There is pressure from above to be conservative - maybe not as much as Eugene Melnyk excerts on management in OTT but considerable all the same

Everyone rants about the loss of a 30 goal scorer on a 750k contract - he held immense value. And he got it in his next contract which ownership or management wasn't prepared to pay. Gift wrapping Smith and Marchessault to Vegas saved Florida 10 mil in cap space a year for the next 4 years moving forward as of the day Marchessault signed his extension.

Regardless of the value they could have gotten on the market if they'd gambled on a repeat season maintaining or increasing trade value, it's clear financial implications played a significant role leading to using Marchessault as leverage to move Smith.

 

[Bure1096]

Swap Cifu with Viola and you have about 80% of it.

 

[LeafFever]

Horribly run organization.

 

[vendetta]

I disagree that ownership is the big problem. Cifu and Viola are not good owners, but I would hotly contest that they are even bottom 10.

1) They fought hard to keep the team in South Florida
2) They did their best in regards to the location of the arena and extending the lease. Having a team in Miami was never going to end well, Broward is where it needs to be, even if ideally it could be twenty minutes to the east.
3) They owned up to their mistakes of 2016-17 when they fired the analytics guys, Rowe, and put Tallon back. I will always appreciate them for admitting their mistakes instead of doubling down as is tradition in the hockey world.
4) They gave us these fly new uniforms a much more modern logo.

This is where I'm gonna have to challenge my man @ucanthanzalthetruth on his narrative that ownership was jerking around an innocent Dale Tallon. The real problem is that collectively as a front office the Panthers have the worst situation in the league. A lot of this mess is on Tallon too...probably most of it. I mean, look back at what happened in the breakdown from MY POINT OF VIEW at least...

- The analytics guys made the Smith - Hayes trade. One Tallon would have never done himself because of his obsession with toughness and size, and it looks absolutely amazing. Ownership was willing to eat the Savard contract to get it done, and now Smith is first line wing while Hayes is out of the league. (Fantastic move)

- Gudbranson trade to Vancouver for McCann and a 2nd Round Pick. Everybody knows Gudbranson sucks, and even FLA fans were getting tired of him never improving from 5D status. The "shutdown pairing" he and Kulikov comprised of was absolutely FEASTED upon by the Tavares line all six games of the playoffs, and this was back when that line was Nelson - Tavares - Strome. Both Erik and Kulikov were 4D when playing their absolute best and both were pending UFAs who (as we knew and then would be later proven correct) were gonna ask for the term and AAV of solid middle pair guys. McCann was a young, gritty, skilled, fast forward and recent 1st Round Pick. Getting him for Guds' sorry behind (and a high pick as a plus) was a great call. But Tallon would have never done it because he loved Guds' size and physicality despite Guds never having lived up to be the even serviceable defender Tallon wanted to portray him as. (Great move)

- Traded a 4th for Yandle's rights, and then signed him to a 6.3m x 7y deal. An overpayment by 800k for what he brings, but someone was gonna give him at least 6m, and otherwise a fine deal for a player who should age well. This is not something Tallon would have done though for obvious reasons. (Fine move)

- Kulikov (pending UFA) traded for Pysyk (RFA). For reasons already stated, Kulikov deserved to go. Pysyk himself was a bottom pair defenseman, and the analytics were wrong about him, but better to have a reasonably paid 5D than a very overpaid and injury prone 5D. However, Tallon loved Kulikov, and this was another move that made his blood boil. (Good move)

- Scevior signed for a very good 2 year contract. Idk if Tallon would have done this, but knowing how he likes physical, gritty guys in the bottom 6, I think he would have looked elsewhere for a 4RW (Great move)

- Marchessault signed for an awesome 2 year contract. Tallon would not have done this on the basis of his size and playing style (Great move).

- Reimer signed to a very large deal for a backup. An overpay for what they were planning for him, and eventually an overpay for what he brought (Okay/bad move).

- Howden not qualified and signs with Winnipeg for league minimum. I like Howden, he brought speed and forecheck and hustle, but his analytics were bad, so the nerds released him. Another 1st Round Pick, Tallon style player gone, and I'm sure he was seething (Dumb move)

- Ekblad signed to a massive extension which buys 3 UFA years and would later be only 250k less than what Hedman would sign for. Preemptive and poor. If they had waited a year like everyone knew they should have they could have got him at the ~6m long term that he deserved. (Bad move)

- Demers signs a 4.5m x 5y deal that is called poor and too analytics based, but it looks even worse in the coming months. (Really bad move).

- Smith signs a 5m x 5y contract. Bit preemptive, but probably okay. (Fine move)

- Crouse traded to dump Bolland and we get back a high 2nd. Very un-Tallon like move, but we moved cap at the price of a guy who was already looking like a bad pick, and they were proved right. (Good move)

- Gallant fired and we all know that story. (Terrible move)

Then the injuries, snake bites, and general turmoil of 2016-17 happen, and the owners bite the bullet and replace Tallon, to the joy of all. People are much happier just at the sense of order being brought back amidst the chaos, but take the emotion out of it, and I think most would agree that the actual roster transactions since Rowe had taken over were a net benefit. But the joy is short lived because here is where everything goes to absolute ****. This is where thing go from bad to worse. And it is squarely on Dale Tallon.

The owners tell Tallon to shed salary and get about 10m beneath the cap. He needs to do this while juggling one of the toughest expansion situations in the league. Obviously you protect Huberdeau, Barkov, Trocheck, and Ekblad. Matheson is exempt and Yandle has a NMC.

And this is where Tallon's vengeful, stupid 90s NHL viewpoint completely screwed the team.

The first thing he did was try to trade Demers for Gudbranson. Demers sucked and needed to go, but trading one high cap, low performance d-man for another would be redundant. Demers nixes it with his NTC which is actually good for the Panthers.

So keep in mind, we have 4 NHL ready RHD, and a fifth on the way in Mackenzie Weegar, but Tallon decides to protect BOTH Petrovic and Pysyk. Granted, Pysyk had just had a great season, but he is a 4D at best, and Petrovic is a bottom pair D. Tallon then offers March and his 800k as a way to clear the team of Smith and his 5m which he loses for nothing to Vegas. Tallon then replaces these guys with three Europeans at sub 1m contracts (none of whom can handle the NHL when they are inserted into the lineup), the stiff corpse of Radim Vrbata at 2.5m, boxer on skates Michael Haley at 800k, and buys out Jokinen saving like 2.5m. Then, Tallon retains 800k on Demers to trade him to Arizona in exchange for Jamie McGinn. He then signs Dadonov for 4.5m

Doing the above saves the team a whopping... ~100,000 USD!!!

He proceeds to pass up on Gabe Vilardi at the draft, picks Owen Tippett, a sniper RHS, RW who projects to be a 30 goal scorer if he hits his potential. The irony of just have given up a sniper, RHS, RW who had just hit 30 goals for absolutely nothing is not lost on Panthers fans.

If that was his plan, ya know what would have been smarter?
- Screw the minor league Euros (Mamin, Haapala, Repo, Vrbata)
- Screw the enforcer (Haley)
- Screw trying to get Gudbranson back
- Screw buying out Jokinen
- Screw literally saving no money with all these moves

What you do is you offer the 10th OA pick in this very weak draft, along with Jokinen at 50% retained to VGK, on the condition that they take Demers in expansion.

Even if you still went and signed Dadonov, moving Demers and half of Jokinen and not bringing in any of Vrbata, the Euros, or Haley would have saved the team like 4m. Ya know, like 4m more than Tallon actually saved?

But no. Tallon had to do things his way. Tallon had to handle the expansion and the salary sequestration order in the worst way humanly posssible. Tallon is more to blame for this mess than the analytics nerds, and he is significantly more to blame than the owners.

My favourite part is offering 10th overall to take Demers and Jokinen! Lmao good stuff bro

 

[Beezeral]

My favourite part is offering 10th overall to take Demers and Jokinen! Lmao good stuff bro

a first round pick was the going rate to eat bad salary. a top 10 pick in the draft possibly gets that deal done. It's certainly not unreasonable.

 

[vendetta]

a first round pick was the going rate to eat bad salary. a top 10 pick in the draft possibly gets that deal done. It's certainly not unreasonable.

Well when the reasoning is the draft is so bad then why would Vegas want it to taje a cap dump dmanwhen they were overloaded with dmen and another old player cap dump? It’s great to tell Vegas what to take but they kind of have a say in it

 

[vendetta]

Anyway all this is pointless because it’s innacurrate. Tallon was mandated to move smith. He’s on record stating Vegas wanted marchy to di that. So u can argue what we yes u move when your not contending yet. 10th overall or one year of marchy when everyone thought he would regress

 

[Beezeral]

one year of marchy when everyone thought he would regress

lets be honest, the marchy regression story didn't come about until a few days before the expansion draft when the rumors started the Panthers were about to dump both players. The current org is very good about setting the stage for their coming moves by letting certain info leak.

 

[vendetta]

lets be honest, the marchy regression story didn't come about until a few days before the expansion draft when the rumors started the Panthers were about to dump both players. The current org is very good about setting the stage for their coming moves by letting certain info leak.

Let’s be honest no one thought he was a 30 goal scorer and thought he would probably cone down to 20 ish goals. Go read our boards at the time