What is the plan with Aho?

Boom Boom Apathy

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Sep 6, 2006
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Teuvo has had two consistent years, back to back, of significantly increased production. I think last year was the show me year and this year they're just trying to get a reasonable deal done before he takes another step forward....at least that's what I'd try to do.

I'm with Lempo. TT is coming off a career year in the 1st of his "show me" deal and IMO, a lot of his success was driven a lot by Aho. I think they want to make sure that TT can repeat what he did, show that he's serious with his offseason training (which has been a question mark in prior seasons and in Chicago), and show that he can have success that isn't completely dependent on Aho. It's a gamble, but I'd rather wait and make sure he performs before giving him a big deal rather than trying to lock him up long term now.
 

sheriff bart

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I'm with Lempo. TT is coming off a career year in the 1st of his "show me" deal and IMO, a lot of his success was driven a lot by Aho. I think they want to make sure that TT can repeat what he did, show that he's serious with his offseason training (which has been a question mark in prior seasons and in Chicago), and show that he can have success that isn't completely dependent on Aho. It's a gamble, but I'd rather wait and make sure he performs before giving him a big deal rather than trying to lock him up long term now.

They can always see how he comes into camp and starts the season. They don't have to wait until his deal is up and they don't have to get it done this summer.
 

tarheelhockey

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I don't have numbers to back this up or anything, but to me it seems like TT benefits from Aho way more than the other way around. TT is a good piece but definitely don't think they should shell out as much to keep him as they do Aho.

I’d agree with that. I like what TT brings to the table, especially on a skill-challenged team, but I have a gut feeling that he’s the kind of player who can be a mirage. I like him as a complimentary player but we shouldn’t make the mistake of paying him like he’s part of the core.
 

NotOpie

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TT went from 35 points in 78 games in his last year in Chicago to 42 points in 81 games in his first year in Carolina. Not really significantly increased production so much as an increase in TOI (1300 minute vs 1200) and opportunity (15 PP Points vs 9 in Chicago).

For me, whereas Aho looked like he was just “heating up” last year and has more room to grow, TT looked like he was overachieving. I’d be pleasantly surprised if TT had another “step forward” to take after just putting up 64 points. More likely I think he is a 50-60 point perimeter winger that has exceptional chemistry with Aho. If the Canes were to get cute after they are eliminated from the Playoffs they could probably separate Aho and TT (maybe play Aho-Svech for the last 2-3 months) and drive down TT’s production/value for RFA negotiations.

While I certainly understand your point, I think there are a lot of measures that one could look at to indicated he's taken some pretty big steps....not the least of which, I believe is in his own confidence. Perhaps the best indicator of that is both shots taken and shots on goal - both of which increased notably year over year in each of the last two seasons. Yes, he did score more goals on the powerplay and one less goal even strength in the year he transitioned from CHI to CAR. That said, his overall even strength production has increased each of the last two years (25 points to 27 points to 44 points). In my opinion, he's a guy who is creative and has even more to give.

I'm with Lempo. TT is coming off a career year in the 1st of his "show me" deal and IMO, a lot of his success was driven a lot by Aho. I think they want to make sure that TT can repeat what he did, show that he's serious with his offseason training (which has been a question mark in prior seasons and in Chicago), and show that he can have success that isn't completely dependent on Aho. It's a gamble, but I'd rather wait and make sure he performs before giving him a big deal rather than trying to lock him up long term now.

They can always see how he comes into camp and starts the season. They don't have to wait until his deal is up and they don't have to get it done this summer.

While I don't disagree with either of these comments, I'd be happy, as well, if they locked him up between $5.5 million and $6.25 million across something like 5 years or so. It will be important to see how he comes into camp and how he has prepared. So if they waited until after camp, it wouldn't be the worst thing. Still, I think there's little downside risk to getting something done in the waning days of the summer.

I’d agree with that. I like what TT brings to the table, especially on a skill-challenged team, but I have a gut feeling that he’s the kind of player who can be a mirage. I like him as a complimentary player but we shouldn’t make the mistake of paying him like he’s part of the core.

There in lies the rub. If he tops out as a 55 to 65 point guy who is responsible on defense but not "hard to play against", but puts up those numbers, what is that worth to a team? As I said, I think if we can get Aho and TT locked up for $13.5 million to maybe $14 million between the two, I'd be okay with that.
 

tarheelhockey

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There in lies the rub. If he tops out as a 55 to 65 point guy who is responsible on defense but not "hard to play against", but puts up those numbers, what is that worth to a team? As I said, I think if we can get Aho and TT locked up for $13.5 million to maybe $14 million between the two, I'd be okay with that.

Yeah, it’s a bit like Semin or Skinner. You let a guy like that walk away and it cripples you... you pay market price to keep him and it cripples you. It’s a tough call for the GM, considering how hard it is to acquire players of this caliber (and I thought they did an excellent job of taking advantage of Chicago’s situation to get him).
 

NotOpie

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Yeah, it’s a bit like Semin or Skinner. You let a guy like that walk away and it cripples you... you pay market price to keep him and it cripples you. It’s a tough call for the GM, considering how hard it is to acquire players of this caliber (and I thought they did an excellent job of taking advantage of Chicago’s situation to get him).
The only difference is that TT isn't a liability on defense. He plays it pretty well; he's just not the guy that knocks another guy off of the puck. But he does have an active, effective stick [phrasing].
 

Lempo

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The only difference is that TT isn't a liability on defense. He plays it pretty well; he's just not the guy that knocks another guy off of the puck. But he does have an active, effective stick [phrasing].
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emptyNedder

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By at least one measure, Teravainen helped Aho more--in fact based on this WOWY, TT was the best on the team and his impact on Aho was the largest except for Rask and Dahlbeck.
CAR 1718 Teravainen With-or-Without You

Something similar is also captured in the SKATR comparison. Aho has a definite advantage in the "individual rates" but TT has much better "on-ice rates."

For me, TT is a playmaker who can improve others on the team including Aho. His defense is under appreciated.

I agree with NotOPie. Teravainen is going to consistently be a 60-65 point winger. If Aho, TT, or Zykov can learn to win in the face-off circle, then I think 70 points will happen. Because a PP unit of Aho/TT/Svech/Zykov will be much more productive than any the Canes have had in several years.

Aho is the better player and has a significantly higher ceiling, but TT is actually more undervalued by most fans.
 

Lempo

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I'm with Lempo. TT is coming off a career year in the 1st of his "show me" deal and IMO, a lot of his success was driven a lot by Aho. I think they want to make sure that TT can repeat what he did, show that he's serious with his offseason training (which has been a question mark in prior seasons and in Chicago), and show that he can have success that isn't completely dependent on Aho. It's a gamble, but I'd rather wait and make sure he performs before giving him a big deal rather than trying to lock him up long term now.

About the bolded notion... I would like to protest against this line of criticism, as there's not much fact to back it up. Teuvo's numbers and performance have gone forward from season to season. Suggesting that his alleged laziness is a/the reason holding him back is essentially the same as claiming that he has this huge upside that he willingly fails to realize.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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About the bolded notion... I would like to protest against this line of criticism, as there's not much fact to back it up. Teuvo's numbers and performance have gone forward from season to season. Suggesting that his alleged laziness is a/the reason holding him back is essentially the same as claiming that he has this huge upside that he willingly fails to realize.

Actually, there is some smoke here and it's not just "fan criticism". Here is an example of one story where Timonen and Quenneville commented on it:

Blackhawks teammate Timonen says Teravainen is a long way from NHL stardom

Teravainen is one of the best prospects in hockey. But veteran Kimmo Timonen believes his fellow Finn has a lot of work to do before he can reach NHL stardom.

"He's got a long way to go," Timonen said. "He's a skinny guy, so he's got to start lifting weights and doing that. ... I told him, 'This summer, you've got to make sure you work out.

"Golf is not a workout.'"

"I think watching these guys on a regular basis could help him grow, help him learn what it takes to be a great player, top player, game in, game out," Quenneville said.

He can be a superstar in this league," Timonen said Wednesday. "But it's still in the process that he's got to realize, 'OK, I've got to make sure summer I work out every day, and I've got to watch these guys how they prepare for the games like Toews and Kane and (Duncan) Keith and these guys.'"


"He can go to another level, but it's going to take him and it's going to take him to realize, 'I've got to make sure I come in next year and I'm going to be in great shape and I can follow these guys,'" Timonen said. "But he's still got a lot of ways to go."

 

Lempo

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@Boom Boom Apathy , I remember those notions and was actively thinking Timonen's comments when posting. Thing is, they're from 2015, Teravainen was 20, and yet those same x+1 years old notions keep being brought up every off-season, whether he's being traded or extended or nothinged.

Meanwhile on ice, he has not been doing badly to warrant to not ever live that specific speculation down."Why no top 1 scorer, you lazy bum?"
 

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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@Boom Boom Apathy , I remember those notions and was actively thinking Timonen's comments when posting. Thing is, they're from 2015, Teravainen was 20, and yet those same x+1 years old notions keep being brought up every off-season, whether he's being traded or extended or nothinged.

Meanwhile on ice, he has not been doing badly to warrant to not ever live that specific speculation down."Why no top 1 scorer, you lazy bum?"

Maybe, but look at the recent picture of Aho, Jesse and Teuvo. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (but I thought I was reading too much into Darling's weight last year also), but when you have a prior reputation, it will be with you for a while. Frankly, if he's a 25-30G, 60P player, I don't care what he does in the off season, but I still think it's fair to question based on hi history.
 

Lempo

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Maybe, but look at the recent picture of Aho, Jesse and Teuvo. Maybe I'm reading too much into it (but I thought I was reading too much into Darling's weight last year also), but when you have a prior reputation, it will be with you for a while. Frankly, if he's a 25-30G, 60P player, I don't care what he does in the off season, but I still think it's fair to question based on hi history.

I let myself be led to think the same questions re: the photo; this is me challenging mostly myself having done that.

He will return with that Ovechkin gut of his and dominate.
 

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