What is the plan with Aho?

Boom Boom Apathy

I am the Professor. Deal with it!
Sep 6, 2006
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There's a difference, and maybe sometimes a fine line between defensive and having a different opinion. I just don't appreciate one of the comments made.
Fair enough, but there are more than a few posters suggesting that any questioning of TT’s offseason dedication is nothing but bullshit. None of us know for sure, so we make assessments based on available information and past history.
 

emptyNedder

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Fair enough, but there are more than a few posters suggesting that any questioning of TT’s offseason dedication is nothing but bull****. None of us know for sure, so we make assessments based on available information and past history.

I think it is reasonable to question TT's dedication. But I prefer to question it in the context of performance. Kessel was used as an example, but I think Michael Grabner is a better one. The guy is a physical specimen. But he doesn't have the tools to be much more than a breakaway goal scorer.

Teravainen demonstrated last season (and several statistical analysis bear it out) that he has multiple skills. Does he have enough to be the superstar Timonen talked about and the player Hossa said glowing things about? Maybe. His history would lead me to believe is not dependent on Aho.

This is the list of players who were born in 1980 or later that are in the World Junior Championship U20 records book right before or after Teravainen:
Eberle, Filatov, Kuznetsov, Schenn, H. Sedin, Ovechkin, D. Sedin, Malkin, Ryan Ellis.

My main point in entering (I think I actually may have started it) this conversation was to state my opinion that it makes sense to lock up a possible superstar who just scored 60+ points. Based on his history, what others have said, and what underlying statistics indicate I don't think he has much to prove. I could be wrong. But I think the evidence in TT's favor is much more than one photo.
 

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
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I have no idea how dedicated TT is, but this isn’t about tearing him down, it’s legitimately questioning how the team will view this in contract negotiations.

Wait, a minute, of course it's about tearing him down. This is HFCanes and we just can't have nice things here....and our opinions are all sacrosanct.....and correct...100%.

Oh, I forgot this.....:sarcasm:
 

Lempo

Future Considerations Truther
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Fair enough, but there are more than a few posters None of us know for sure, so we make assessments based on available information and past history.

I daresay there is a middleground where people like moi suggest that giving the benefit of the doubt is also a viable option IF a central point in the argument for the contrary is a quote from three years back and the narrative based on that.

I do give that the dad-bod and a video of him bounching golf ball on hockey stick do contribute to the narrative. But there is also the possibility that he's deliberately being a dick to us summertime speculators with his choice of mixed hockey and golf equipment.

Also there's the counterpoint that also Seb Aho was photographed playing golf in TopGolf gear. I'm not sure if Dundo wants to reel back his number two scorer's visible enthusiasm for golf.
 

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
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Also there's the counterpoint that also Seb Aho was photographed playing golf in TopGolf gear. I'm not sure if Dundo wants to reel back his number two scorer's visible enthusiasm for golf

Lempo, you are one perceptive dude....this is all likely a tempest in a teapot anyway....as I've said multiple times, it's a gas bubble.
 

My Special Purpose

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Apr 8, 2008
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I hate guys like Teuvo because there's just *no way* to know what he's going to do once he's set for money. I have no fears about guys like Aho, who were born to play hockey. With Teravainen, there's no way to know what motivates the guy.

I like Teravainen, and I'm glad to see him starting to have some success. But I think the concerns are about more than just his off-season commitment level. It's about whether or not he's got the killer instinct necessary to be a star in the NHL. IMO, Timonen and others who have criticized his off-season training are over-simplifying things. There's no doubt it would be better for Teravainen to be in better shape, but that's not enough. It's not like if he showed up in CrossFit Games shape he'd be an automatic All-Star.

IMO, Teravainen's got to decide if he's willing to commit to seeing how far this goes, like Aho has. He has to decide if he's willing to work as hard making adjustments as defenses are going to work at finding ways to stop him. Teravainen's biggest question mark is between his ears, IMO. And I'm scared of giving guys like that life-changing money.

Until we know that's he's committed to being a pro and selling out to win titles, I'd just as soon stick to two-year deals and avoid anything longer.
 

Negan4Coach

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Aug 31, 2017
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I hate guys like Teuvo because there's just *no way* to know what he's going to do once he's set for money. I have no fears about guys like Aho, who were born to play hockey. With Teravainen, there's no way to know what motivates the guy.

I like Teravainen, and I'm glad to see him starting to have some success. But I think the concerns are about more than just his off-season commitment level. It's about whether or not he's got the killer instinct necessary to be a star in the NHL. IMO, Timonen and others who have criticized his off-season training are over-simplifying things. There's no doubt it would be better for Teravainen to be in better shape, but that's not enough. It's not like if he showed up in CrossFit Games shape he'd be an automatic All-Star.

IMO, Teravainen's got to decide if he's willing to commit to seeing how far this goes, like Aho has. He has to decide if he's willing to work as hard making adjustments as defenses are going to work at finding ways to stop him. Teravainen's biggest question mark is between his ears, IMO. And I'm scared of giving guys like that life-changing money.

Until we know that's he's committed to being a pro and selling out to win titles, I'd just as soon stick to two-year deals and avoid anything longer.

He reminds me of...Jiri Tlusty.
 

My Special Purpose

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Apr 8, 2008
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He reminds me of...Jiri Tlusty.

He may have a bit more pure talent and a little less pure dumba$$, but overall, I can see that. For fun, I checked out Teravainen's similarity score on Hockey Reference and found this:

upload_2018-8-22_22-18-16.png


Kinda illustrates exactly what I was saying. Teravainen can go either way and end up as Grabovski or Roberts at this point. One guy a chronic underachiever and one the very definition of professional.
 

DaveG

Noted Jerk
Apr 7, 2003
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Pretty telling that Kostitsyn and Cournoyer are two of the top 5 comparables as well. I mean, Kostitsyn was a flake which Turbo has proven himself not to be so far, but fact of the matter is he could merely be a good top 6 winger like he already is, or if he commits he could be a star.

Personally I'd look at doing a 3 year deal with him as I trust him not to go full Semin, but you'd still want that motivator there for him to keep proving himself.
 

emptyNedder

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Personally I'd look at doing a 3 year deal with him as I trust him not to go full Semin, but you'd still want that motivator there for him to keep proving himself
Nashville just won the Presiden'ts Cup. They sign players to 7-year deals after one 60-point season. Even Arizona is willing to sign a player who has yet to hit 40 points to a 6-year deal. There is a general consensus that Yzerman is a shrewd GM--just signed Miller, whose production is similar to TT, for 5 years.

I think you are likely correct that the organization will do a shorter deal. Personally, I don't think it is smart. Players see that other teams put faith in their players. As a manager I have found trusting people is a much more productive strategy than sending a message that certain team members haven't done enough yet to warrant the respect that their less accomplished peers are receiving.

Faith apparently works in the NHL also. Two examples: Sean Couturier and Richard Rackell. Both flourished after signing long-term contracts that appeared to be putting "too much faith" in them.
 

geehaad

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"But lots of players are signed to multi-year deals" is not a solid rebuttal to the point. The NHL is chock full of counter-examples where the 3rd contract was a multi-year deal that turned out to be an albatross, so simply pointing out that there examples to the contrary merely highlights the gamble, rather than proving short-term contracts as unwise.
 

Joe McGrath

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Oct 29, 2009
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Grabovski wasn’t a full time NHLer until he was 25 and Roberts is not at all similar to TT so I’m going to take those “similarity” scores with a great big grain of salt.

I know Aho is the driver on that line but we can’t really be discounting TT’s value either as a 22 year old who just put up over 20 goals and over 40 assists on a shit ass offensive team. He’s progressed similarly to Mikael Grandlund, and happened to break out a year earlier than Granlund.

I’d lock him the hell up before it costs and absurd amount to keep him.
 

emptyNedder

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"But lots of players are signed to multi-year deals" is not a solid rebuttal to the point. The NHL is chock full of counter-examples where the 3rd contract was a multi-year deal that turned out to be an albatross, so simply pointing out that there examples to the contrary merely highlights the gamble, rather than proving short-term contracts as unwise.

I didn't say it wasn't a gamble. Just saying it is made by the smartest gamblers in the room. Because it is a high percentage bet.
I looked at CapFriendly's "Compare this Contract" for Alex Killorn and Jonathan Huberdeau. Out of more than 50 contracts of 5-8 years there are TWO that appear to be albatrosses: Andrew Shaw and Cody Hodgson. There are at least a dozen that seem like steals. So 6-to-1 odds. I make that bet every day. Unless there is something specific that indicates Teravainen is almost identical to Shaw/Hodgson.

Is that more solid ground?
 

NotOpie

"Puck don't lie"
Jun 12, 2006
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Yeah, I just don't get the "he seems like he'll be a lazy ass if we sign him to big money" vibe. Since he's been here, he's done what's been asked of him and has improved. He's a very good player with innate abilities. I'd easily sign him to a 4, 5, or 6 year deal in the $5.5 million to $6.25 million range...and I firmly believe he'll earn it pretty easily.

If I were him, I'd shoot for something like a 4 year, $23 million deal. That would take me to my 27-28 year deal when serious big money contracts are still given out.
 

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