Speculation: What is the best use of our assets this offseason?

[Dbrownss]

I would go ROR, Hoffman, Johnson, and Kessel a distant 4th. I still think that finding a playmaker (be it a LW or C) for Tarasenko is more important than another RW, we have internal options moving forward.

Big question is if you would trade Thomas+ for ROR. He gives us our 1st line center, but talented players on their ELC allow you to add someone else. I think Hoffman is a better player than Johnson, and there is less downside with his contract.

 

[WeWentBlues]

I'd trade Thomas in a deal for Draisaitl. Not ROR though.

 

[carter333167]

Hang on to our assets. Take a run at Tavares. Consider moving Allen.

 

[67Blues]

I'd trade Thomas in a deal for Draisaitl. Not ROR though.

Edmonton would want Thomas+Parayko for Drai

 

[WeWentBlues]

Edmonton would want Thomas+Parayko for Drai

I'd be fine with that depending on what EDM added to balance the deal.

 

[Brian39]

Bill Armstrong has build pretty darn good d-core while he has been hands tied. We have to understand how many picks Army has wasted for acquire vet player just for 1 round push.

So have we seen draft where there has been 2-3 extra picks where he could go for boom/bust type of players more then save prospects?

I'll take 2nd or 3rd round pick(s) from Berglund, Gunnar, Sobotka, and Steen.

Its just coincidence our expendable players are Swedish. Stop always twist my view that I hate swedish. Ofc I do weird way, but its in our blood hate-love relationships.

I'll give you small detail, I've almost 50% relatavies from Sweden, I live in 400m away from Sweden. I go almost everyday to Sweden and buy food, snus etc. Had relationships with swedish women 3-year and generally everything is better then in Finland.

I don't like Berglund, Gunnar or Steen just that they are Swedish, only cus they suck and are expendable + we could get from them important picks for Bill, who could go for players he couldn't go if we are short of picks at draft.

One. He has traded exactly one first round pick for a rental. We've had a handful of trades where we've given up a 4th or 5th rounder, but surely you aren't talking about those, right?

The 2011 pick was part of the trade for Shatty and Stewart. Stewart played 211 games with the Blues and Shatty played 425 games with the Blues. Shatty also returned a 1st round pick to the Blues when he was traded as a rental.

The 2013 1st round pick was traded for Jay Bouwmeester. He has played 356 games with the Blues and is still under contract.

The 2015 pick was traded for a rental. It didn't work out.

The 1st rounder we got for Shatty as well as this year's 1st rounder were traded for Schenn (and to dump Lehtera's contract). Schenn played the entire season for us last year, is under contract for another 2 years and it is very likely that the Blues will extend him well before he gets a chance to hit UFA.

In addition to our four 1st round picks that Army has traded in the last 8 years, he has also acquired three 1st round picks (as well as a 32, 33 and a 35 overall). We've picked 5 times in the 1st round in the 7 drafts under Bill Armstrong while acquiring 3 long term top 4/top 6 players in trades involving our first round picks. We have a 1st rounder this year, but I think it is likely traded for another player with at least 2 years of term. We don't know yet.

Stop spreading nonsense.

 

[Dbrownss]

One. He has traded exactly one first round pick for a rental. We've had a handful of trades where we've given up a 4th or 5th rounder, but surely you aren't talking about those, right?

The 2011 pick was part of the trade for Shatty and Stewart. Stewart played 211 games with the Blues and Shatty played 425 games with the Blues. Shatty also returned a 1st round pick to the Blues when he was traded as a rental.

The 2013 1st round pick was traded for Jay Bouwmeester. He has played 356 games with the Blues and is still under contract.

The 2015 pick was traded for a rental. It didn't work out.

The 1st rounder we got for Shatty as well as this year's 1st rounder were traded for Schenn (and to dump Lehtera's contract). Schenn played the entire season for us last year, is under contract for another 2 years and it is very likely that the Blues will extend him well before he gets a chance to hit UFA.

In addition to our four 1st round picks that Army has traded in the last 8 years, he has also acquired three 1st round picks (as well as a 32, 33 and a 35 overall). We've picked 5 times in the 1st round in the 7 drafts under Bill Armstrong while acquiring 3 long term top 4/top 6 players in trades involving our first round picks. We have a 1st rounder this year, but I think it is likely traded for another player with at least 2 years of term. We don't know yet.

Stop spreading nonsense.

 

[BlueDream]

I love this board, truly. We have knowledgeable posters here.

From what I see from fans on twitter, Mike Hoffman is still their popular pick.

He has 0 votes here.

I liked him at the deadline if we were going to be buyers but spending assets on him now makes little sense to me. I’m glad we dodged that bullet. We really need to find a RHS, or if they’re a lefty they need to be a true center. I’m going all in on Johnson or ROR. All these other options are meh to me, they can score goals but they don’t really solve our problem.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

If we sign Tavares, Kessel.
If we don't sign Tavares, RoR.

 

[Celtic Note]

I am starting to lean toward Johnson, even though I would prefer ROR. I think he takes less assets, comes at a lower cost and (the biggest benefit) he provides the most flexibility.

If someone told me we could go into the season with JT and TJ or we could get ROR + lesser RW, I would have to select the 1st option.

If we trade for TJ and sign Stastny, then slot TJ to RW. If we get TJ and another winger, the TJ to center. If we got TJ and Kessel, our team would be better for sure, but our assets would take a massive hit. Maybe it could work anyway.

Not all situations lead to me liking TJ as the target, but he seems to offer the greatest flexibility and thus the greatest opportunity to improve.

If we end up with only getting one player not named JT, the ROR is my preferred option of those mentioned to be available.

 

[WeWentBlues]

The only thing about TJ that I question is that Yzerman just signed him to an extension last year. It makes alot of sense that he would be available until you consider that piece. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks. So many moving pieces to this offseason.

 

[MissouriMook]

The only thing about TJ that I question is that Yzerman just signed him to an extension last year. It makes alot of sense that he would be available until you consider that piece. I guess we'll find out in a few weeks. So many moving pieces to this offseason.

The speculation surrounding him potentially being available is based on the fact that, in addition to the fact that Point may have passed him on the depth chart at C, his NTC kicks in July 1. The draft is possibly the last time they will be able to move him without at least some amount of difficulty.

 

[WeWentBlues]

The speculation surrounding him potentially being available is based on the fact that, in addition to the fact that Point may have passed him on the depth chart at C, his NTC kicks in July 1. The draft is possibly the last time they will be able to move him without at least some amount of difficulty.

I understand that. Are we overlooking the fact that Yzerman just re-signed him though? Point wasn't exactly an unknown quantity last July when TJ signed that extension. Just food for thought.

 

[Ranksu]

One. He has traded exactly one first round pick for a rental. We've had a handful of trades where we've given up a 4th or 5th rounder, but surely you aren't talking about those, right?

The 2011 pick was part of the trade for Shatty and Stewart. Stewart played 211 games with the Blues and Shatty played 425 games with the Blues. Shatty also returned a 1st round pick to the Blues when he was traded as a rental.

The 2013 1st round pick was traded for Jay Bouwmeester. He has played 356 games with the Blues and is still under contract.

The 2015 pick was traded for a rental. It didn't work out.

The 1st rounder we got for Shatty as well as this year's 1st rounder were traded for Schenn (and to dump Lehtera's contract). Schenn played the entire season for us last year, is under contract for another 2 years and it is very likely that the Blues will extend him well before he gets a chance to hit UFA.

In addition to our four 1st round picks that Army has traded in the last 8 years, he has also acquired three 1st round picks (as well as a 32, 33 and a 35 overall). We've picked 5 times in the 1st round in the 7 drafts under Bill Armstrong while acquiring 3 long term top 4/top 6 players in trades involving our first round picks. We have a 1st rounder this year, but I think it is likely traded for another player with at least 2 years of term. We don't know yet.

Stop spreading nonsense.

And you attack things what isn't relevant. See the bigger picrure. Bill has drafted hands tied BPA.

There is world of difference having 1(or 2) extra picks in draft then Be short of 1(or 2) picks. It doesn't put Bill in akward spot to acquire what he feels is might Be gem, but needs Time to florish and is questionmark, but high potential.

I just wanted to see 1-2 extra picks at 2nd - 3rd round, Even late rounds extra picks would help Bill.

He's The guy who has build this team and not giving him tools to opetate its crazy.

So yeah, trade away Berglund, Sobotka, Gunnar, (Jbo), Steen for picks. At least somebody and understand bigger picture.

 

[Ranksu]

@Dbrownss

 

[Dbrownss]

@Dbrownss

Completely lost here chief

 

[David Dennison]

What is everyone's take on ROR's attitude? Im not sure if it's an issue or not, but from signing in Russia several years ago (and COL almost lost him because of it) to wanting out rather than being part of the solution in Buffalo, there have been instances where it's easy to come to the conclusion that he is more concerned about himself then the team he is on. Not that there is anything wrong with watching out for #1, and maybe these aren't issues so long as he has his big contract and is on a competitor, but there sure do seem to be a couple of instances where when the going got tough, he GTFO.

Pham's comments last night just got me thinking a little bit about it. They might fire up the fan base, but you wonder how toxic this stuff might be inside the locker room.

 

[Brian39]

And you attack things what isn't relevant. See the bigger picrure. Bill has drafted hands tied BPA.

There is world of difference having 1(or 2) extra picks in draft then Be short of 1(or 2) picks. It doesn't put Bill in akward spot to acquire what he feels is might Be gem, but needs Time to florish and is questionmark, but high potential.

I just wanted to see 1-2 extra picks at 2nd - 3rd round, Even late rounds extra picks would help Bill.

He's The guy who has build this team and not giving him tools to opetate its crazy.

So yeah, trade away Berglund, Sobotka, Gunnar, (Jbo), Steen for picks. At least somebody and understand bigger picture.

It's absolutely relevant that the players acquired by "tying Bills hands" have been long term contributors to the team. If Army doesn't make those trades then Bill Armstrong has more chances to make picks. Obviously. However, he also needs to hit on every single one of those picks just to match the return that Army could have gotten (and passed up as to not tie his scout's hands). Unless he turns 2-3 extra picks into a 70 point center and a top 4 D man or two, then we were better of trading them like we did. We don't have zero to show for those picks like you are suggesting. I'm not confident that 2-3 extra first round picks would have led to players who contributed nearly as much as Bouwmeester, Schenn and Shatty have over the last 5 + years and into the future. B Armstrong's hands haven't been tied. He's had the tools to do his job and has done it well. By giving him 'more tools' we would also be requiring that he do significantly better than he has been doing.

You keep saying that B Armstrong is the guy who built this team while ignoring that at least half our core was not B Armstrong. You keep criticizing Army for 'tying the hands of the guy who built the team' and acting like Army is throwing away 1sts. It isn't true. If you want people to stop attacking that part of your argument, stop making an argument that is based in fiction.

As to your claim that you just want to see a couple extra mid round picks, you should be happy with what D Armstrong has done for B Armstrong. We've picked 15 times in the 2nd/3rd round in the last 7 years and 11 of those picks were in the 2nd round. Army has given B Armstrong plenty of tools to build this team in the 2nd round, often giving him picks just outside the 1st round (like I mentioned earlier, Army has traded for the 32nd, 33rd and 35th overall picks in the 7 years we've had B Armstrong as the Director of Scouting). We currently have a pick in every round this draft and have all our picks but the 4th rounder next year. We have picked 14 times in the last 2 years (out of 14 rounds) with 3 first round picks and two 2nd round picks. This narrative that B Armstrong doesn't have enough picks to work with is just not based in reality.

B Armstrong has picked 7 forwards in the 2nd and 3rd rounds since he has been in charge of scouting. The best one of them (until Kyrou proves otherwise) is Jaskin. Jaskin is the only forward B Armstrong has taken outside the 1st round with 100+ career NHL games. This isn't a criticism of B Armstrong. I think he is a top 10 Director of Scouting in the NHL, but the reality is that drafting forwards outside the NHL is wildly unpredictable. You're advocating trading 5 legitimate NHL players for lottery tickets who (best case scenario) are 3 years away from contributing to an NHL team. Everyone around here wants to shed some fat by moving one or two of the guys you listed. There is no argument from anyone on that front. The criticism is that you seem to want to trade all of them and offer no solution to replacing the contribution of 5 players for a team who already had issues scoring goals. You're talking about trading a full offensive line worth of forwards who combined for 43 goals and 103 points. Your proposal would require the Blues to fill about 6 forward vacancies and you want to do it in the name of getting the scouting department some extra mid round picks.

Alex Steen had 46 points this year. Every single forward B Armstrong has selected outside the 1st round as Director of Scouting has combined for 119 career NHL points. If you exclude Jaskin from that group, the number goes down to 58 points. Steen isn't worth the money he makes, but acting like he is useless is insane. Trading him just to get B Armstrong a couple mid round picks is insane. Everyone here wants one or two of the players you listed traded in order to free up cap space and/or roster spots. But guys like Steen/Bergie need to return more than mid round picks to make it worth it. If that's all they return, make the trade in a year or two.

 

[Bluesguru]

One. He has traded exactly one first round pick for a rental. We've had a handful of trades where we've given up a 4th or 5th rounder, but surely you aren't talking about those, right?

The 2011 pick was part of the trade for Shatty and Stewart. Stewart played 211 games with the Blues and Shatty played 425 games with the Blues. Shatty also returned a 1st round pick to the Blues when he was traded as a rental.

The 2013 1st round pick was traded for Jay Bouwmeester. He has played 356 games with the Blues and is still under contract.

The 2015 pick was traded for a rental. It didn't work out.

The 1st rounder we got for Shatty as well as this year's 1st rounder were traded for Schenn (and to dump Lehtera's contract). Schenn played the entire season for us last year, is under contract for another 2 years and it is very likely that the Blues will extend him well before he gets a chance to hit UFA.

In addition to our four 1st round picks that Army has traded in the last 8 years, he has also acquired three 1st round picks (as well as a 32, 33 and a 35 overall). We've picked 5 times in the 1st round in the 7 drafts under Bill Armstrong while acquiring 3 long term top 4/top 6 players in trades involving our first round picks. We have a 1st rounder this year, but I think it is likely traded for another player with at least 2 years of term. We don't know yet.

Stop spreading nonsense.

I always include trading Eller, a 1st round prospect of the Blues who never hit the ice for us, as a 1st rounder DA traded away as well. Just my opinion...………...

 

[BlueDream]

What is everyone's take on ROR's attitude? Im not sure if it's an issue or not, but from signing in Russia several years ago (and COL almost lost him because of it) to wanting out rather than being part of the solution in Buffalo, there have been instances where it's easy to come to the conclusion that he is more concerned about himself then the team he is on. Not that there is anything wrong with watching out for #1, and maybe these aren't issues so long as he has his big contract and is on a competitor, but there sure do seem to be a couple of instances where when the going got tough, he GTFO.

Pham's comments last night just got me thinking a little bit about it. They might fire up the fan base, but you wonder how toxic this stuff might be inside the locker room.

Not worried about it at all. He's worn an 'A' in the NHL and in international tournaments. By all accounts he's considered to be a good character guy.

Does he have high self-worth and a desire to get paid as such? Yes. But that goes for most athletes. Players want to get paid what they think they're worth. There's not nearly as many guys out there that are willing to take a "discount" as fans think there are. These guys are all trying to make as much money as they can while they still can. Not an issue.

As for him possibly wanting out of Buffalo... I would too. The team sucks and the climate there sucks too. I mean...

 

[simon IC]

I'd trade Thomas in a deal for Draisaitl. Not ROR though.

Edmonton would want Thomas+Parayko for Drai

I'd be fine with that depending on what EDM added to balance the deal.

I have been thinking long and hard about a Parayko/Draisaitl swap. (See what happens when your team misses the playoffs? ) The only way I see it working is if Larsson is included in the swap. We need a RD that can handle Parayko's minutes. Larsson won't replace Parayko's offence, but he isn't a black hole in that department. Larsson is just as good defensively, (if not better!), than Colton. Would something like Parayko+Fabbri/Kyrou for Larsson and Draisaitl work? Obviously I would rather hang on to Thomas, otherwise the offer would be Parayko+Thomas for Draisaitl+Larsson. Thoughts?

 

[WeWentBlues]

I have been thinking long and hard about a Parayko/Draisaitl swap. (See what happens when your team misses the playoffs? ) The only way I see it working is if Larsson is included in the swap. We need a RD that can handle Parayko's minutes. Larsson won't replace Parayko's offence, but he isn't a black hole in that department. Larsson is just as good defensively, (if not better!), than Colton. Would something like Parayko+Fabbri/Kyrou for Larsson and Draisaitl work? Obviously I would rather hang on to Thomas, otherwise the offer would be Parayko+Thomas for Draisaitl+Larsson. Thoughts?

I don't think EDM would do that.

Could see Klefbom over Larsson. We would have to look outside the organization for RHD. Or instead of acquiring D from EDM, picks or other assets.

 

[67Blues]

I have been thinking long and hard about a Parayko/Draisaitl swap. (See what happens when your team misses the playoffs? ) The only way I see it working is if Larsson is included in the swap. We need a RD that can handle Parayko's minutes. Larsson won't replace Parayko's offence, but he isn't a black hole in that department. Larsson is just as good defensively, (if not better!), than Colton. Would something like Parayko+Fabbri/Kyrou for Larsson and Draisaitl work? Obviously I would rather hang on to Thomas, otherwise the offer would be Parayko+Thomas for Draisaitl+Larsson. Thoughts?

I could see Edmonton asking for Parayko+ Kyrou + Fabbri + 1st for Draisaitl + Klefbloom. Blues would be stupid to do that.

 

[Oberyn]

I don't recall ROR outright saying he wants out of Buffalo. The only article I remember is him talking about how he lost some of his love for the game from all the losing and how he needs to get the right mindset back.

 

[Brian39]

I always include trading Eller, a 1st round prospect of the Blues who never hit the ice for us, as a 1st rounder DA traded away as well. Just my opinion...………...

He played a handful of games with the Blues and the trade happened 3 years after he had been drafted. I get what you're saying, but Eller's value had fallen a bit and it was starting to become clear that he wasn't going to live up to the expectations attached to a 13th overall pick. If we go down this rabbit hole, we should also consider that Army got Paajarvi at 22 (1 year older than Eller at the time we traded him).

But we're going way into the weeds at this point. My post was about the assertion that we're tying Bill Armstrong's hands and trading 1sts for rentals. Eller was a Jarmo pick, trading a prospect 3 years after a draft doesn't handicap your scouting department at all and we immediately signed Halak to a 4 year extension. That trade does nothing to build the narrative that we're throwing away 1sts.