Speculation: What is the best use of our assets this offseason?

[mk80]

Well take from this article what you will but apparently Armstrong is very interested in Kovalchuk.

Kovalchuk getting interest from Blues: report

 

[Dbrownss]

Sounds like general interest to me

 

[Ace]

Well we are working on the assumption that he wants out one way or another. Otherwise, if he doesnt, why would Buffalo trade him? 5 years left on his deal, they aren't in a cap crunch, still relatively young, and they still need to keep Eichel happy. At the very least there would be zero rush to move him this off-season.

I can provide a little insight to this. While they aren’t under any type of gun to move him out the prevailing belief is that Botterill wants to make major changes to a core that performed worse each year they were together for the last three years.

Eichel isn’t moving.

Okposo is immovable.

Ristolainen could move but his biggest problem was he was the only guy who they trusted to play and he was in over his head with too many minutes and all the hard assignments. With remaking the D a top priority he could finally get used more efficiently so while moving him isn’t out of the question...they probably want to see how he does with help.

Reinhart could also move but he came on like gangbusters the second half of the year, is still young and under team control for four more years so it would kind of be a big risk to move him before you are sure of what he is. If the second half is who he is now...you keep him. You don’t want to be wrong.

That leaves RoR. His comments about losing his love for the game notwithstanding he also makes a good chunk of money and, like Reinhart and Okposo, isn’t a fast player on a team full of not many fast players. You can have some...but if half your top 6 is comprised of them you’re always going to be slow.

He’s simply the most likely to go because he checks the most boxes. Want to get faster? Clear a big contract? Change the leadership? He checks them all.

The one thing is that in a perfect world you’d wait a year so he can insulate Casey Mittelstadt’s rookie year at C. But the flip side of that is not making massive changes throws two top prospects in Mittelstadt and Dahlin into a room that by all accounts is a disaster.

Two things changed since Botterill took over that change things a bit. Mittelstadt and Dahlin. Now RoR, while young and signed through his prime, is substantially older than the new core that popped up comprised of 21 year old Eichel, 19 year old Mittelstadt and 18 year old Dahlin. It’s entirely possible Botterill knows they are a few years away from having all three at their peak at the same time...and by then RoR is 30 and you wasted him. If you can get younger nhl ready players for him you can build out that younger core together. Finding a vet to insulate them would become the huge issue though and you aren’t getting one near his level.

There are also the more gossipy things like his locker clean out comments. You can take them as a public ask for a trade pretty easily. It’s tough when a guy wearing a letter says that because what are the young guys supposed to think the next time they hit a rough patch? Is he still with us or has he checked out? Or he could have just thought he owed the media and fans the truth because he has always been a stand up guy and while many guys would feel the same they wouldn’t say it. I’m sure Botterill would know from the exit interview what the deal is but I don’t get the impression it’s a deal breaker heading into the year.

I think it’s all just a combination of needing to make massive change to the team makeup after they’ve freefallen to last, wanting to improve team speed and the desire to rebuild it around those young guys. That has to be weighed against losing the guy who plays all the hard situations, minutes and zone starts, wins all the faceoffs and still manages to put up 60 points on a team that never scores.

It really probably depends on what the offers are.

 

[simon IC]

I can provide a little insight to this. While they aren’t under any type of gun to move him out the prevailing belief is that Botterill wants to make major changes to a core that performed worse each year they were together for the last three years.

Eichel isn’t moving.

Okposo is immovable.

Ristolainen could move but his biggest problem was he was the only guy who they trusted to play and he was in over his head with too many minutes and all the hard assignments. With remaking the D a top priority he could finally get used more efficiently so while moving him isn’t out of the question...they probably want to see how he does with help.

Reinhart could also move but he came on like gangbusters the second half of the year, is still young and under team control for four more years so it would kind of be a big risk to move him before you are sure of what he is. If the second half is who he is now...you keep him. You don’t want to be wrong.

That leaves RoR. His comments about losing his love for the game notwithstanding he also makes a good chunk of money and, like Reinhart and Okposo, isn’t a fast player on a team full of not many fast players. You can have some...but if half your top 6 is comprised of them you’re always going to be slow.

He’s simply the most likely to go because he checks the most boxes. Want to get faster? Clear a big contract? Change the leadership? He checks them all.

The one thing is that in a perfect world you’d wait a year so he can insulate Casey Mittelstadt’s rookie year at C. But the flip side of that is not making massive changes throws two top prospects in Mittelstadt and Dahlin into a room that by all accounts is a disaster.

Two things changed since Botterill took over that change things a bit. Mittelstadt and Dahlin. Now RoR, while young and signed through his prime, is substantially older than the new core that popped up comprised of 21 year old Eichel, 19 year old Mittelstadt and 18 year old Dahlin. It’s entirely possible Botterill knows they are a few years away from having all three at their peak at the same time...and by then RoR is 30 and you wasted him. If you can get younger nhl ready players for him you can build out that younger core together. Finding a vet to insulate them would become the huge issue though and you aren’t getting one near his level.

There are also the more gossipy things like his locker clean out comments. You can take them as a public ask for a trade pretty easily. It’s tough when a guy wearing a letter says that because what are the young guys supposed to think the next time they hit a rough patch? Is he still with us or has he checked out? Or he could have just thought he owed the media and fans the truth because he has always been a stand up guy and while many guys would feel the same they wouldn’t say it. I’m sure Botterill would know from the exit interview what the deal is but I don’t get the impression it’s a deal breaker heading into the year.

I think it’s all just a combination of needing to make massive change to the team makeup after they’ve freefallen to last, wanting to improve team speed and the desire to rebuild it around those young guys. That has to be weighed against losing the guy who plays all the hard situations, minutes and zone starts, wins all the faceoffs and still manages to put up 60 points on a team that never scores.

It really probably depends on what the offers are.

Thank you for the insightful and knowledgeable input! Very much appreciated. ROR remains my 1st choice as an addition. (Outside of Tavares, which seems increasingly unlikely to happen).

 

[The Note in MI]

For a team also looking to increase its speed attaining a player that doesn’t fit that style and is also incredibly expensive seems like a poor decision.

 

[BlueDream]

For a team also looking to increase its speed attaining a player that doesn’t fit that style and is also incredibly expensive seems like a poor decision.

Yes and no. O'Reilly isn't fast but he's also not brutally slow like Lehtera. Plus he's such a smart player positionally that I think he'll be fine.

Another thing is that if we can dump Berglund, that will offset it. And if we can then acquire a top 6 winger with speed - we should be faster than last year.

 

[Dbrownss]

For a team also looking to increase its speed attaining a player that doesn’t fit that style and is also incredibly expensive seems like a poor decision.

From listening to the talking heads, ROR isnt going to cost a guy like Parayko. From their winger searching....I could see something like Fabbri+conditional pick being appealing.

I'm not excited by ROR, but if he's a target and Army doesn't get ripped off, whatever

 

[BlueDream]

From listening to the talking heads, ROR isnt going to cost a guy like Parayko. From their winger searching....I could see something like Fabbri+conditional pick being appealing.

I'm not excited by ROR, but if he's a target and Army doesn't get ripped off, whatever

How are you not excited by him when he's by far the best center on the market aside from Tavares?

I know you like to compare him to Stastny which is fair but ROR is better than Stastny at this point.

 

[Dbrownss]

How are you not excited by him when he's by far the best center on the market aside from Tavares?

I know you like to compare him to Stastny which is fair but ROR is better than Stastny at this point.

It's the style he plays, Which is like Stastny. Ultimately it depends on what it costs to get him on weather I like it or not

 

[BlueDream]

It's the style he plays, Which is like Stastny. Ultimately it depends on what it costs to get him on weather I like it or not

I think he will for sure score more goals than Stastny which is what we need. He's capable of 25. That'd be a great 1-2 punch with Schenn IMO.

Unless we can get Hoffman for dirt cheap... it looks like ROR, Johnson and Skinner are probably our best options via trade/

 

[The Note in MI]

Stastny is $ only while ROR is definitely going to cost more than Fabbri + pick.

A much more optimal situation is adding Stastny through free agency and spending assets on a Hoffman, Pacioretty, Simmonds, Silfverberg, or Kessel type player.

If we go after O’Reilly we are looking at spending the assets we wanted to use on a winger and essentially making a lateral move from last year. We need two top 6 players and obtaining ROR makes that much much more difficult.

I’m ready for the draft to begin, I don’t recall a more suspenseful offseason in recent history in terms of not having a clue what our lineup will look like day one. So far we have struck out by missing out on the lottery, and seemingly the Tavares sweepstakes going down the drain. I believe there is going to be a lot off butthurt on these boards over the next three weeks.

 

[Dbrownss]

I think he will for sure score more goals than Stastny which is what we need. He's capable of 25. That'd be a great 1-2 punch with Schenn IMO.

Unless we can get Hoffman for dirt cheap... it looks like ROR, Johnson and Skinner are probably our best options via trade/

I'm a little hesitant on Schenn repeating. If he doesn't repeat, I feel were right back to where we always are. Outside of Tavares though, that's unavoidable.

This wouldn't be the worst case moving forward:
Schwartz Schenn Tarasenko
Hoffman ROR Kyrou
Steen Thomas Silverberg

ROR for Fabbri+
Hoffman for Sobokta+(if his value is tanked)
Silverberg for Thompson(+)

Not a world beating roster but we just saw Washington vs Vegas, so all bets are off

 

[Dbrownss]

Stastny is $ only while ROR is definitely going to cost more than Fabbri + pick.

A much more optimal situation is adding Stastny through free agency and spending assets on a Hoffman, Pacioretty, Simmonds, Silfverberg, or Kessel type player.

If we go after O’Reilly we are looking at spending the assets we wanted to use on a winger and essentially making a lateral move from last year. We need two top 6 players and obtaining ROR makes that much much more difficult.

I’m ready for the draft to begin, I don’t recall a more suspenseful offseason in recent history in terms of not having a clue what our lineup will look like day one. So far we have struck out by missing out on the lottery, and seemingly the Tavares sweepstakes going down the drain. I believe there is going to be a lot off ******** on these boards over the next three weeks.

Listening to NHL radio and writers, does not even sound like the Blues are on the radar. Guys are mentioning teams like LA and Nashville. Nashville has to move a guy they literally just signed. LA has to make moves.

 

[BlueDream]

I'm a little hesitant on Schenn repeating. If he doesn't repeat, I feel were right back to where we always are. Outside of Tavares though, that's unavoidable.

This wouldn't be the worst case moving forward:
Schwartz Schenn Tarasenko
Hoffman ROR Kyrou
Steen Thomas Silverberg

ROR for Fabbri+
Hoffman for Sobokta+(if his value is tanked)
Silverberg for Thompson(+)

Not a world beating roster but we just saw Washington vs Vegas, so all bets are off

Repeating as in... hitting 70 points? I agree there. But he's consistently been a 25-goal guy the past 3 years. And has shown more than once he can get to 60 too, and at only 26 I feel confident he can keep putting up 60 points a year while being solid defensively and physical. He's a great 2C at the very least moving forward., I'm not worried about him.

Anyways, I like that lineup you posted. Would be shocked if we acquired all 3 though. I could see maybe 2 happening. Adding a ROR and Hoffman would be ideal, because like Note in KY said, the downside of trading for O'Reilly is the potential assets that we won't be able to spend on a winger if we get him.

This could be a wild week coming up. But if we acquire a couple of these guys, we'd be very tough to beat IMO. (Until you get to Allen)

 

[Alklha]

Listening to NHL radio and writers, does not even sound like the Blues are on the radar. Guys are mentioning teams like LA and Nashville. Nashville has to move a guy they literally just signed. LA has to make moves.

I don't believe that anyone outside of Tavares and his family know his thinking just now.

The Blues are typically the first or second team mentioned by guys like Jeff Marek when talking about Tavares in UFA. McKenzie and Friedman mention the Blues pretty prominently when talking about aggressive suitors. It just depends who is talking and where. The Blues aren't as interesting a topic when we just missed the playoffs and wouldn't be forced to clear cap space.

 

[Dbrownss]

Repeating as in... hitting 70 points? I agree there. But he's consistently been a 25-goal guy the past 3 years. And has shown more than once he can get to 60 too, and at only 26 I feel confident he can keep putting up 60 points a year while being solid defensively and physical. He's a great 2C at the very least moving forward., I'm not worried about him.

Anyways, I like that lineup you posted. Would be shocked if we acquired all 3 though. I could see maybe 2 happening. Adding a ROR and Hoffman would be ideal, because like Note in KY said, the downside of trading for O'Reilly is the potential assets that we won't be able to spend on a winger if we get him.

This could be a wild week coming up. But if we acquire a couple of these guys, we'd be very tough to beat IMO. (Until you get to Allen)

I just get tired of us just being a solid team. 2 60pt centers just feels like Backes/Stastny all over again. Even those they were guaranteed to hit that mark.

3 top 9 acquisitions would be pushing it but 2 of those guys are heavily in the movement department. I actually haven't seen silfverberg mentioned outside of duck fans. He wouldn't be a critical add, I'm just looking for a solid middle 6 RHS winger and I've liked his game for a long time.

I don't believe that anyone outside of Tavares and his family know his thinking just now.

The Blues are typically the first or second team mentioned by guys like Jeff Marek when talking about Tavares in UFA. McKenzie and Friedman mention the Blues pretty prominently when talking about aggressive suitors. It just depends who is talking and where. The Blues aren't as interesting a topic when we just missed the playoffs and wouldn't be forced to clear cap space.

yea, I agree. I'm just clinging to anything Tavares related

 

[Mike Liut]

I'm a little hesitant on Schenn repeating. If he doesn't repeat, I feel were right back to where we always are. Outside of Tavares though, that's unavoidable.

This wouldn't be the worst case moving forward:
Schwartz Schenn Tarasenko
Hoffman ROR Kyrou
Steen Thomas Silverberg

ROR for Fabbri+
Hoffman for Sobokta+(if his value is tanked)
Silverberg for Thompson(+)

Not a world beating roster but we just saw Washington vs Vegas, so all bets are off

It would take Fabbri + Kyrou + 1st for ROR because I dont think Fabbri has much value currently.

 

[Dbrownss]

It would take Fabbri + Kyrou + 1st for ROR because I dont think Fabbri has much value currently.

And no one outside of fans seem to believe ROR is returning premium assets. I'd kick in Walman if they want a LHD with potential

 

[67Blues]

It would take Fabbri + Kyrou + 1st for ROR because I dont think Fabbri has much value currently.

That is why I don't think this would happen. If Fabbri comes back, that would be a complete mis-management of our assets. ROR is nice, but he isn't a game breaking center. I'd rather hold off and see what Fabbri and Kyrou have to show.

 

[Ranksu]

I'm a little hesitant on Schenn repeating. If he doesn't repeat, I feel were right back to where we always are. Outside of Tavares though, that's unavoidable.

This wouldn't be the worst case moving forward:
Schwartz Schenn Tarasenko
Hoffman ROR Kyrou
Steen Thomas Silverberg

ROR for Fabbri+
Hoffman for Sobokta+(if his value is tanked)
Silverberg for Thompson(+)

Not a world beating roster but we just saw Washington vs Vegas, so all bets are off

You need to be delusional thinking of Army would do all those trades at this off-season. This isn't NHL EA sports.

Realistic is the one trade what we'll see and its pushing for 2c or 3c center and maybe some AHL depth additions.

 

[Dbrownss]

You need to be delusional thinking of Army would do all those trades at this off-season. This isn't NHL EA sports.

Realistic is the one trade what we'll see and its pushing for 2c or 3c center and maybe some AHL depth additions.

3 trades and 2 of them are guys who seem to be certainly moved......ya, fantasy land.

 

[Ranksu]

3 trades and 2 of them are guys who seem to be certainly moved......ya, fantasy land.

 

[Brian39]

I just get tired of us just being a solid team. 2 60pt centers just feels like Backes/Stastny all over again. Even those they were guaranteed to hit that mark.

3 top 9 acquisitions would be pushing it but 2 of those guys are heavily in the movement department. I actually haven't seen silfverberg mentioned outside of duck fans. He wouldn't be a critical add, I'm just looking for a solid middle 6 RHS winger and I've liked his game for a long time.
yea, I agree. I'm just clinging to anything Tavares related

In 2015/16, Backes and Stastny had 49 and 45 points. Backes missed 3 games that year while Stastny missed 18, which put Stastny's pace at 63 points. The year before, Backes had 58 points while Stastny had 46 points (on pace for 51 points). We had 109 and 107 points in those seasons and went to the Conference Final in 15/16.

Two 60 point centers is an objectively significant upgrade from the performances we got using a Backes/Stastny 1-2 punch at center and we were more than just a solid team with the two of them here. We can debate whether acquiring a guy like ROR is worth what it would cost to get him, but there shouldn't be any debate whether having two 60 point centers is enough of an upgrade. It would be the best top 2 center situation the Blues have had for well over a decade.

 

[Dbrownss]

In 2015/16, Backes and Stastny had 49 and 45 points. Backes missed 3 games that year while Stastny missed 18, which put Stastny's pace at 63 points. The year before, Backes had 58 points while Stastny had 46 points (on pace for 51 points). We had 109 and 107 points in those seasons and went to the Conference Final in 15/16.

Two 60 point centers is an objectively significant upgrade from the performances we got using a Backes/Stastny 1-2 punch at center and we were more than just a solid team with the two of them here. We can debate whether acquiring a guy like ROR is worth what it would cost to get him, but there shouldn't be any debate whether having two 60 point centers is enough of an upgrade. It would be the best top 2 center situation the Blues have had for well over a decade.

I'm just saying its solid, not spectacular.

 

[Celtic Note]

I'm just saying its solid, not spectacular.

If that’s the case then, what options do we have to be better?

I want a PPG center. Don’t get me wrong there, but Tavares is our only shot at this point (barring something completely unforeseen). Thomas looks like he could reasonably be a low end #1, but I would estimate that is in the 60 point range. That’s the going rate for a bottom end #1. O’ Reilly was 33rd in C scoring this year with 61 points. That’s essentially what I hope Thomas can become (hopefully better, but I am trying to be reasonable).