What happens with Hornqvist?

[pistolpete11]

I don't see how "getting rid of our bad players and replacing them with good players" counts as the type of "change" JR wants. That's what every team ever wants to do. Of the players you listed, Bjugstad and Johnson are crappy cap dumps, Sheary, Marleau and Schultz were mediocre to crappy UFAs and Murray's coming off a terrible year and is expendable. McCann's really the only somewhat significant guy there.

Last off-season, he shipped Kessel out as a major move in response to getting swept in the 1st round. They didn't do any better this year, so why is JR all of a sudden going to do less this off-season?

Your post that I quoted was what people on here want. Most people on here want change, but that means different things to different people. Clearing out 30% of your roster and 75% of your coaching staff is a lot of change to me. I personally would like to see 100% of the coaching staff changed. Others want to trade Letang. Others Rust. Others Hornqvist...

So my point is you can't tell people they don't want change if they don't want to trade Hornqvist or any of those other players you listed. They just want different changes than you.

 

[pistolpete11]

I honestly can't remember if that kicked Horny or Rust to the LW?
Either way, Rust and PH aren't good on the left side compared to their right. So I'm not viewing that as a long term solution.

I think Horny can meet expectations, but the coach has to put him in a position to succeed. I don't think it's happened for some time with Horny.

Hell Sully's panic move when he was down in a series was to reunite Sid and PH. That never happened this year but I'm thinking it was the Sheary nepotism thing

Changing gears though to the PP -As someone else said, PH is in the top 3 net front guys in the league. It's an abject failure that this PP is so terrible.

In conclusion I like PH the player and want him on my team. But he's being wasted as Sully currently utilizes him. So I start to wonder why he's even on the team

I wonder why MS is still the coach if he is misusing his roster.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I wonder why MS got all of his assistants fired if he's a good coach?

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Horny brings a unique skill set and he's still a 20g/50+ pt guy. Plus has an unmovable contract. He's not going anywhere.

There are far better candidates to move.

 

[EightyOne]

Horny brings a unique skill set and he's still a 20g/50+ pt guy. Plus has an unmovable contract. He's not going anywhere.

There are far better candidates to move.

I could be wrong, but are they even deploying him in a way that takes advantage of his skill set anymore?

 

[chethejet]

GMJR was far to generous in the extensions of Horny, JJ, Petts and Tanev. His claim is others were competing for said services and he beat the offers to get them or lose them. Complete hogwash and while he made the deal he wanted for Kap, GMJR simply is not a GM to rebuild in two years. That is the time period I use fr this win it now and all in priority. Jake is not a 6 million winger without an elite center. He is if he plays with them. Zucker also has term that begs the question. What good will he do in 3 years? I fear he will give large 3 or 4 year contracts to Geno and Letang when it is clear that is the worst thing to do.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I'm not worried about JR manning the helm for the rebuild. He'll be fired next summer under the guise of "mutually parting ways and heading off into retirement", after the Penguins miss the playoffs or are eliminated in the 1st round again this upcoming season.

Someone said JR probably wants even less to do with a rebuild than anyone in the organization, and I can definitely see that as true. Particularly with the way he's randomly thrown mud at the wall with all his moves in recent years, handed out NTC and extended contracts with reckless abandon, and doesn't seem to give a damn about keeping his picks.

 

[Pens1566]

If it were up to me I'd move Horny for best return, regardless of what it is. I like what he brings, but if he can't play in the top 6 we're not getting value for his cap hit. We're just not using him in a way to justify what he costs. Coupled with injury history, and how he plays, his value can rapidly decline.

 

[RSPens]

Without going back and reading all the comments, my thoughts are that if the Pens can't find a way to move Horny, than they are likely not able to resign McCann and would likely have to trade Rust. The Pens just don't have to cap space to keep Horny around and the fact that if he is still here he would be relegated to the 3rd line just makes him less of a need. I know that there is not much of an appetite for Bones coming back, but it logistically makes sense. The feeling is that Horny would be willing to go back to Nashville, JR likes retreads, Bones makes about $1M less and only has this year left on his contract.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

I could be wrong, but are they even deploying him in a way that takes advantage of his skill set anymore?

He's a 20g/50pt guy regardless if he plays on the 3rd line or on the 1st line. As long as he gets PP time does it really matter where he plays?

 

[Ugene Magic]

He's a 20g/50pt guy regardless if he plays on the 3rd line or on the 1st line. As long as he gets PP time does it really matter where he plays?

On a stacked team it doesn't matter because you are creating depth. The problem is this isn't 2016 or 2017 anymore.

 

[JRS91]

I'd try to move him, but I doubt they can.

Honestly I think they're either hoping he doesn't completely drop off within the next 3 years or Seattle takes him in the expansion draft next year.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

Without going back and reading all the comments, my thoughts are that if the Pens can't find a way to move Horny, than they are likely not able to resign McCann and would likely have to trade Rust. The Pens just don't have to cap space to keep Horny around and the fact that if he is still here he would be relegated to the 3rd line just makes him less of a need. I know that there is not much of an appetite for Bones coming back, but it logistically makes sense. The feeling is that Horny would be willing to go back to Nashville, JR likes retreads, Bones makes about $1M less and only has this year left on his contract.

Getting rid of Bjugstad, Schultz, Sheary, and Murray frees up $16mil. Adding Kapanen and Pettersson's new deals will add $7.2 mil. We'll be OK if we keep Horny.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

On a stacked team it doesn't matter because you are creating depth. The problem is this isn't 2016 or 2017 anymore.

On paper, the Penguins are as stacked as any team in the league. He can do some real damage on the 3rd line.

 

[RSPens]

Getting rid of Bjugstad, Schultz, Sheary, and Murray frees up $16mil. Adding Kapanen and Pettersson's new deals will add $7.2 mil. We'll be OK if we keep Horny.

But what about McCann, Lafferty, Jarry, Angello, Simon, Aberg, Adam Johnson, DiPauli? I get that most of these guys will get barely league minimum and some won't even play in the NHL, but with the injuries the Pens get every season having $5.3M player in the bottom 6 makes things very difficult.

Also whether Bjugstad is healthy or not, I have a hard time seeing any team looking to trade for him. It's just too much of a gamble to trade for a $4.1M bottom 6 forward that always seems to be injured.

 

[ziggyjoe212]

But what about McCann, Lafferty, Jarry, Angello, Simon, Aberg, Adam Johnson, DiPauli? I get that most of these guys will get barely league minimum and some won't even play in the NHL, but with the injuries the Pens get every season having $5.3M player in the bottom 6 makes things very difficult.

Also whether Bjugstad is healthy or not, I have a hard time seeing any team looking to trade for him. It's just too much of a gamble to trade for a $4.1M bottom 6 forward that always seems to be injured.

Bjugstad has negative value. We would have to add something for a team to take his contract. I wouldn't be surprised if we give up Murray so someone would take Bjugstad.

Also it sounds like they're gonna get rid of other vets. Perhaps guys like McCann and Simon will be gone too.

 

[RSPens]

Bjugstad has negative value. We would have to add something for a team to take his contract. I wouldn't be surprised if we give up Murray so someone would take Bjugstad.

Also it sounds like they're gonna get rid of other vets. Perhaps guys like McCann and Simon will be gone too.

If Simon is going to cost more than $1M, than yeah he should go. Giving up McCann to hang on to Horny is poor asset management in my mind, but I'm not the GM.

 

[Headshot77]

I love Hornqvist, he is legit my favorite player on the team. I think Rutherford will only make trades that make the actual roster better, at the behest of picks/prospects. Trading Hornqvist will probably not net you a better, younger player with his skill set. If cap needs shed that's one thing. But Hornqvist is a luxury that the Penguins can afford for now.

 

[pistolpete11]

Until they have a need for his cap space and have rid themselves of JMFJ, Bjugstad, and Murray, I don't see why this is even a discussion.

This idea that he is teetering on the edge of a cliff and could fall off any day now is silly. Like anyone his age, there will probably be somewhat of a regression over the rest of his career, but he's still going to be just as sought after next offseason where they can use him as Kracken bait or trade him then if they need to.

What's the difference in return between a 33 year old Hornqvist with a full NTC and a 34 year old Hornqvist with a very limited NTC? I'm guessing very minimal if not better next year.

 

[EightyOne]

He's a 20g/50pt guy regardless if he plays on the 3rd line or on the 1st line. As long as he gets PP time does it really matter where he plays?

Last year that he scored 50+ points is when he played 82 games

He is far from that consistency right now

Doing 60-70 games at 30-40pts aint cutting it

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Last year that he scored 50+ points is when he played 82 games

He is far from that consistency right now

Doing 60-70 games at 30-40pts aint cutting it

But his warrior spirit, dude.

 

[EightyOne]

But his warrior spirit, dude.

Eh, man...I loved me some Horny Time. I even 'liked' the contract extension. But....the last couple years have happened and he isn't in the play as much and he isn't used right and it costs a lot of money just to hand out Warrior Helmets(tm) etc.

 

[HandshakeLine]

You know what's the biggest display of Warrior Spirit (tm) (OC do not steal) around? Actually winning something.

Edit: Incidentally, I wonder if the team tuning out Hornqvist is as much of a thing as them tuning out the coaches.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Eh, man...I loved me some Horny Time. I even 'liked' the contract extension. But....the last couple years have happened and he isn't in the play as much and he isn't used right and it costs a lot of money just to hand out Warrior Helmets(tm) etc.

I was being snarky. Sorry.

I want Hornqvist shopped heavily, and have for a while. If we can get back a solid return, or even clear some cap, do it. We have Rust and Kapanen as the top-6 RWs, we have a guy in Poulin who many think could be ready for 3rd line duty.

I just don't see how anyone can argue that it's worth spending ~$5.5 million AAV on a guy who is effectively a 3rd liner and PP specialist on this team. Rust is Geno's RW. Hornqvist and Sid don't play together, and never will. Horny's a 3rd liner, plain and simple. And for all the discussion of Hornqvist's value on the PP--well, our PP sucks. It sucks with him, it sucks without him. If moving the guy forced a change in approach, maybe we'd actually see guys moving their feet, getting PKers moving to open up passing/shooting lanes, etc. instead of just planting roots and allowing guys to close gaps and making the PKers' job easy as Hell.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Yeah, unless JR somehow gets Danault (recently not happy with the way he was being used with the rise of Suzuki and Kotkaniemi) and Gallagher for Hornqvist, I want to see Hornqvist retire a Penguin. He belongs in Black & Pittsburgh Yellow.

Also, the way I see the RW situation it’s - Kapanen, Rust, Hornqvist, then Tanev in that order. So Horny on the 3rd line is fine if you get the right C, I am starting to like the idea of Danault wanting out and JR swooping in.

I just don't know what pieces you move for that. McCann and Legare? Cupboard is getting pretty bare.