What happens with Hornqvist?

[Pens x]

What a great original trade by JR in acquiring Brassard.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Stand still.
Pass
Pass
Pass
Pass
...hold the puck...
Pass
Pass
40 seconds left
Pass
Shoot into a crowd, shot is blocked

2nd unit out to finish the last 20 seconds.

You forgot the 2 failed zone entries to kick it all off.

 

[Jacob]

You forgot the 2 failed zone entries to kick it all off.

And when the blocked shot leads to a 2-on-1 against.

 

[JTG]

And when the blocked shot leads to a 2-on-1 against.

Or the slapshot that is 5 feet high and wide.

 

[Jacob]

Or the slapshot that is 5 feet high and wide.

And Malkin cocked for one-timers and Letang passing him grenades 3 feet out of his wheel house.

 

[JTG]

And Malkin cocked for one-timers and Letang passing him grenades 3 feet out of his wheel house.

That's why I love when people point to the coaching staff. How many coaches have we had? It always dies with Malkin and Letang playing catch at the point and not generating any chances.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Yeah, for all of Letang's positives, he's never, ever been good at placing a pass into a spot where Geno can fire off a one-timer. We've missed that since Gonchar left.

 

[JTG]

Yeah, for all of Letang's positives, he's never, ever been good at placing a pass into a spot where Geno can fire off a one-timer. We've missed that since Gonchar left.

Letang produces points in spite of himself. It's marvelous actually. If he had any sort of offensive savvy he would probably be a PPG defenseman. He's just so f***ing talented that he can get it done without having top end hockey sense.

 

[Jacob]

Yeah, for all of Letang's positives, he's never, ever been good at placing a pass into a spot where Geno can fire off a one-timer. We've missed that since Gonchar left.

His shots and shot selection stink too. Always love the fake-pump-then-actually-shoot routine, completely defeating the purpose of the fake which is freezing the PKer in the shooting lane to open a passing lane.

Letang fails because as talented as he is he’s like the 3rd or 4th best player on the PP and he knows it and tries to defer to the better players or looks for the perfect shot.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

His shots and shot selection stink too. Always love the fake-pump-then-actually-shoot routine, completely defeating the purpose of the fake which is freezing the PKer in the shooting lane to open a passing lane.

Letang fails because as talented as he is he’s like the 3rd or 4th best player on the PP and he knows it and tries to defer to the better players or looks for the perfect shot.

He second guesses himself way too much. Dude's never been a cerebral player, but he's so damn physically gifted that it's never mattered much. The second he starts to think about things is when it all falls apart, imo.

Letang produces points in spite of himself. It's marvelous actually. If he had any sort of offensive savvy he would probably be a PPG defenseman. He's just so f***ing talented that he can get it done without having top end hockey sense.

Yeah, exactly. The year the coaches took him aside and asked him to tone things down and be more careful, he was abysmal. He's gotta be full-bore, playing purely on instinct.

 

[ChaosAgent]

Back to Horny.

I remembered that Hornqvist could play hockey earlier this year. But the post-COVID times have soured me on him (along with many, many other members of this team) and I really question whether carrying a $5.3M specialist who is extremely underskilled everywhere aside from the front of the opponents' net is worth it.

I also feel like we may owe it to ourselves to try to construct a PP without him. I know we're currently better with him, but our powerplay is too stationary to begin with and obviously his presence doesn't help things there. Plus his lack of skill hurts our zone entry.

Guy's a legend in my book but I worry he's become unmovable.

 

[Gurglesons]

His shots and shot selection stink too. Always love the fake-pump-then-actually-shoot routine, completely defeating the purpose of the fake which is freezing the PKer in the shooting lane to open a passing lane.

Letang fails because as talented as he is he’s like the 3rd or 4th best player on the PP and he knows it and tries to defer to the better players or looks for the perfect shot.

Letang had the 2nd most power play goals on the power play for all defenseman in the league this year.

 

[JBose7]

I got two words: Expansion Draft

 

[HandshakeLine]

I got three words: licorice fermented fish.

 

[Peat]

Back to Horny.

I remembered that Hornqvist could play hockey earlier this year. But the post-COVID times have soured me on him (along with many, many other members of this team) and I really question whether carrying a $5.3M specialist who is extremely underskilled everywhere aside from the front of the opponents' net is worth it.

I also feel like we may owe it to ourselves to try to construct a PP without him. I know we're currently better with him, but our powerplay is too stationary to begin with and obviously his presence doesn't help things there. Plus his lack of skill hurts our zone entry.

Guy's a legend in my book but I worry he's become unmovable.

We've been trying and trying and failing and failing.

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

He doesn't fit on the 3rd line and he has always worked on the first. Or even with Malkin on the 2nd.

So I still don't get why they do not try to fix two problems(Hornqvist himself and an ineffective 3rd line) with one move. I get the reasoning behind it but it has been one of the most obvious fixes these last few seasons.

Either that or surround him with better talent on the 3rd and make it more of a scoring line. Maybe a McCann - Granlund - Hornqvist line.

He needs more action 5 on 5, that is when he is more engaged on the power play.


And if the goal is to trade him eventually, get him back in the top 6 so he can put up his usual numbers so we can get the return we should.

 

[pistolpete11]

He doesn't fit on the 3rd line and he has always worked on the first. Or even with Malkin on the 2nd.

So I still don't get why they do not try to fix two problems(Hornqvist himself and an ineffective 3rd line) with one move. I get the reasoning behind it but it has been one of the most obvious fixes these last few seasons.

Either that or surround him with better talent on the 3rd and make it more of a scoring line. Maybe a McCann - Granlund - Hornqvist line.

He needs more action 5 on 5, that is when he is more engaged on the power play.


And if the goal is to trade him eventually, get him back in the top 6 so he can put up his usual numbers so we can get the return we should.

I don't necessarily disagree with putting him back in the top 6 or that they need more skill on the third line, but Hornqvist put up his usual numbers even on the third line.

Hornqvist's per 82game averages:

Career : 25G 51P
'19-'20 : 27G 50P

 

[JimmyTwoTimes]

I don't necessarily disagree with putting him back in the top 6 or that they need more skill on the third line, but Hornqvist put up his usual numbers even on the third line.

Hornqvist's per 82game averages:

Career : 25G 51P
'19-'20 : 27G 50P

This year he was up and down the lineup tho right? With all of the injuries we had?

The line I disliked the most was Simon - Bjugstad - Hornqvist. 2018 playoffs when swept by the Island. Sullivan used them as a shutdown line, signals were crossed somewhere tho. It ruined our scoring and they had no prob in that area. The Shutter Island series

 

[pistolpete11]

This year he was up and down the lineup tho right? With all of the injuries we had?

The line I disliked the most was Simon - Bjugstad - Hornqvist. 2018 playoffs when swept by the Island. Sullivan used them as a shutdown line, signals were crossed somewhere tho. It ruined our scoring and they had no prob in that area. The Shutter Island series

To a certain extent and I guess it wasn't always the third line when Crosby was out, but McCann was by far his most common C.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Hornqvist got over half of his ES production this year in the top-6 with Crosby and Malkin, he did not put up those numbers on the 3rd line. In fact, even saying "he produced a lot with McCann on the 3rd line" isn't even fully true, because McCann was a 2C for a vast majority of his time at center this year.

I don't have the numbers in terms of production, but Hornqvist was on the ice for 16 goals for in 425:49 at 5v5 last year without Crosby or Malkin. That's a goals/60 of 2.25, that's not very good.

Edit: I may be able to grunt the numbers, though. Hornqvist had 23 5v5 points last year. He was on the ice with Crosby for 3 of those points and Malkin for 9 of those points. That leaves 11 5v5 points in 425:49 without Crosby and Malkin at 5v5, which is only a 1.55 5v5 points/60 without Crosby and Malkin.

 

[Gurglesons]

Hornqvist got over half of his ES production this year in the top-6 with Crosby and Malkin, he did not put up those numbers on the 3rd line. In fact, even saying "he produced a lot with McCann on the 3rd line" isn't even fully true, because McCann was a 2C for a vast majority of his time at center this year.

I don't have the numbers in terms of production, but Hornqvist was on the ice for 16 goals for in 425:49 at 5v5 last year without Crosby or Malkin. That's a goals/60 of 2.25, that's not very good.

How is it not very good? Hornqvist led the team in G/60 even with time with Sid and Malkin last year.

 

[pistolpete11]

Hornqvist got over half of his ES production this year in the top-6 with Crosby and Malkin, he did not put up those numbers on the 3rd line. In fact, even saying "he produced a lot with McCann on the 3rd line" isn't even fully true, because McCann was a 2C for a vast majority of his time at center this year.

I don't have the numbers in terms of production, but Hornqvist was on the ice for 16 goals for in 425:49 at 5v5 last year without Crosby or Malkin. That's a goals/60 of 2.25, that's not very good.

So wait, he only put up his usual numbers because he got half of his ice time with Crosby or Malkin? Or he wasn't very good with Crosby and Malkin but still put up his usual numbers?

 

[pistolpete11]

Hornqvist played 88min with Crosby and that was spread over 38 games. I'm not sure how serious I can take any stats from something like that anyway.

 

[Empoleon8771]

How is it not very good? Hornqvist led the team in G/60 even with time with Sid and Malkin last year.

2.25 on ice goals/60 is not very good. That's not individual goals for, that's on ice goals for.

I dug deeper on the numbers, Hornqvist had 23 5v5 points last year. He was on the ice with Crosby for 3 of those points and Malkin for 9 of those points. That leaves 11 5v5 points in 425:49 without Crosby and Malkin at 5v5, which is only a 1.55 5v5 points/60 without Crosby and Malkin.

So wait, he only put up his usual numbers because he got half of his ice time with Crosby or Malkin? Or he wasn't very good with Crosby and Malkin but still put up his usual numbers?

He was amazing with Malkin (4.27 5v5 points/60), mediocre with Crosby (2.03 5v5 points/60) and mediocre without either of them (1.55 5v5 points/60).

He hit his usual numbers because of how much the Malkin-Hornqvist duo destroyed last year. Which I guess you can argue is a justification for putting Hornqvist in the top-6 and bumping either Rust or Kapanen to the 3rd line to beef that up, but that's a discussion for another day. The point is that saying "Hornqvist has shown to be able to produce at normal levels in a 3rd line role" isn't true.

 

[KIRK]

I got three words: licorice fermented fish.

I've got ten words: JR trades him and @ColePens torches Pittsburgh in peaceful protest.