No way I trade Josi. I know we’re spoiled here but Josi, Suter, Weber, Jones types are rare. Even Ellis and Ekholm aren’t easy to find.
What Does a Full Rebuild Look like .....
- Thread starter ILikeItILoveIt
- Start date
I like that plan. Except if Karl Taylor comes in and actually start coaching these guys the right way we won’t get a top 5 pick next year. One thing I notice when someone came up from Milwaukee that they actually pass tape to tape and not a patch of the ice like most of the guys do here. It’s like the need to get back to Fundamentals. That could get make our power play better just by the passing. I don’t how many times one of point guys misses the puck when we finally do get set up. Passing should be worked on everyday with this squad until they get it right.
On one more note don’t just fire hynes but the whole staff. They all have been trash
LeighDx59
Registered User
As someone who's other team has been rebuilding, you dont want to to do it unless you absolutely have too.
To me, theres is plenty of talent here in Nashville to work with, you dont have to completely rebuild but definitely call this season an off year and re-tool for next season, the right way.
-Coaching change again, Gallant would be perfect imo but you could also look at Taylor in Milwaukee. Or see about Rikard Gronborg if you wanna go outside the norm. Either way thats the first step you have to do, you need someone who can really get more out of our lineup.
-Move players at the deadline, obviously the UFA's first and foremost (Granlund/Haula/Tinordi/Richardson), get whatever you can. Also listen to offers on players like Jarnkrok/Grimaldi/Sissons. You could also listen to offers on Ekholm/Ellis depending on what the return is, but preferably you want to hold onto those guys. Try to get picks obviously, it'd be nice to get a solid pick to maybe trade to Seattle to pick a certain player depending on who Nashville depends to protect during the Expansion Draft.
-Bring up players for the rest of the season to get an idea of if they could fit into the lineup. Looking at players like Carrier/Allard/Davies on defense. And see what Tomasino can bring right now and assess if you should be in the lineup for next season.
-Once you get to Free Agency, depending on who makes the team you could try to sign players to a short term deal to improve the team, it obviously depends on who ends up being available and what we need.
To me, theres is plenty of talent here in Nashville to work with, you dont have to completely rebuild but definitely call this season an off year and re-tool for next season, the right way.
-Coaching change again, Gallant would be perfect imo but you could also look at Taylor in Milwaukee. Or see about Rikard Gronborg if you wanna go outside the norm. Either way thats the first step you have to do, you need someone who can really get more out of our lineup.
-Move players at the deadline, obviously the UFA's first and foremost (Granlund/Haula/Tinordi/Richardson), get whatever you can. Also listen to offers on players like Jarnkrok/Grimaldi/Sissons. You could also listen to offers on Ekholm/Ellis depending on what the return is, but preferably you want to hold onto those guys. Try to get picks obviously, it'd be nice to get a solid pick to maybe trade to Seattle to pick a certain player depending on who Nashville depends to protect during the Expansion Draft.
-Bring up players for the rest of the season to get an idea of if they could fit into the lineup. Looking at players like Carrier/Allard/Davies on defense. And see what Tomasino can bring right now and assess if you should be in the lineup for next season.
-Once you get to Free Agency, depending on who makes the team you could try to sign players to a short term deal to improve the team, it obviously depends on who ends up being available and what we need.
NoNecksCurse
#164303
- Oct 19, 2011
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That sounds similar to what we have been doing except the part about the young guys play.
people act like we haven’t made changes the past few years.
Kunin for bonino, Craig smith walked, granlund for fiala trade, subban traded to sign duchene, Hartman trade and then later flipped him for Wayne simmonds, Brian Boyle from NJ, turris and signed for 6 years now being bought out. Signed a bunch of guys this past summer. Boro, benning, cousins, haula, Richardson.
this core needs to be blown up. they have had enough chances. let the young guys play and get what you can for UFAs and actively shop ekholm, Ellis, arvidsson, ect. If anyone will give assets back for Duchene then take it. same with johansen.
oh and fire Hynes.
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A key question is: Do we have the players (plus one or two additions) but we're being coached wrong, or do we need more than one or two players and therefore have to go at least DEFCON 3, maybe 2. Also, can the fan base take the suckage of letting Hynes drive us down into a Top 3 pick? If we switch coaches, we will play better and lose the Top 3 pick, but we'd have a better idea of off-season moves in hopes of contending next year.
Thinking about implementing Project Suckage is not a good feel, ....... until May when the regular season is over and we have a Top 3 pick and in the process of getting a new coach. How much mental damage could Project Suckage inflict on the players we keep for the long term? Maybe it's more important to fire Hynes now, bring in a new coach, and win more games to have something to build on, even though it hurts our draft position.
Thinking about implementing Project Suckage is not a good feel, ....... until May when the regular season is over and we have a Top 3 pick and in the process of getting a new coach. How much mental damage could Project Suckage inflict on the players we keep for the long term? Maybe it's more important to fire Hynes now, bring in a new coach, and win more games to have something to build on, even though it hurts our draft position.
Byrddog
Lifer
- Nov 23, 2007
- 7,482
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The Sharks have tried this the last couple years and were last in the division reguardless. They hold on to Coture, Hertil, Burns, Karlsson adding Kane into the mix and a ton of young guys. While waiting on Korenor who is now 23 to develop to take over the net. Coture, Burns and Karlsson are all going to age out before the team returns to competive hockey. In the last 6 years they are on there 3rd head coach now granted all three of the coaches are better than Hynes.
The Preds are two years deep into needing major changes. The decision will have to be made from Owners and GM which way will return them to being competitive as well as how they handle Forsberg and Josi both of which will be in there final few years in the league Forsbergs case or the last couple in Josi's case. Giving the player the option to move on to a team to compete would be the wise thing to do.
It is a shitty situation one which Poile should be held accountable for by his patching of the roster over the last 5 years. Yes part of it was attempting to stretch the window. With the current roster there are serious issues none more important than goaltending. Yes a new system and coach could turn it around to competing for a wildcard spot with changes in the bottom 9. Is that enough for fans? Just getting in to the show and embarrased in round 1. This organization is past this early 2000 just get in mentality. Now ownership may not be they may just want that one playoff round money.
If it were me I would make it clear it would take a top 5 pick in this years draft to get either Josi or Forsberg so Detroit and Ottawa would be the targets I would think Detroit would move that 1st for Forsberg and that the Sens would make that move for Josi picks beyond 5th this year would not be acceptable for those two. This could give the Preds the cream of this years draft X3. Ekholm I would accept a top 15 pick in next years draft thats doable. The rest of the roster focus on guys drafted last year and the year before and 2nd round picks. The one guy I hold on to is Fabbro he will be a top 4 guy perhaps not a 1C but a guy to start a new core with despite his struggle adapting to the NHL. Look at Sergichev his first two years he struggled bad then turned around last year and now is a stud.
It is going to be two more years minimum until Askarov is ready to jump to the league then another two years until he is ready to take the load. Ingram might be a option and needs his chance next year despite all his warts. The only forward that needs a close look now is Thomasino. The D prospects outside Fabbro are at best 3rd pair guys so not much of a pressure right now. The forward prospects are a disaster.
Either way a rebuild is here slow or all in.
Well for sure Fabbro will never be a 1c.
Ingram is still very talented just working on non hockey issues. I wouldn’t give up on him.
No way would I trade Josi for a single draft pick. The chances that pick being a Norris caliber defender is very small. I also wouldn’t trade Forsberg, he’s not even peaked yet imho.
Ingram is still very talented just working on non hockey issues. I wouldn’t give up on him.
No way would I trade Josi for a single draft pick. The chances that pick being a Norris caliber defender is very small. I also wouldn’t trade Forsberg, he’s not even peaked yet imho.
NoNecksCurse
#164303
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There is a very real possibility Forsberg walks after next season. He’s gonna be able to make more money elsewhere and win more elsewhere.
Yup but I wouldn't trade him until he decides to not negotiate in his final year.
NoNecksCurse
#164303
- Oct 19, 2011
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I would agree. I would trade Josi before Forsberg. Not only just because of age but he’s my favorite player currently.
Porter Stoutheart
We Got Wood
- Jun 14, 2017
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We can extend Forsberg after July 28, right? On that day, I have a contract extension sitting on his desk, 8yrs x $8.5M. He's easily our best forward, and young enough to get that term. I doubt he can make more money elsewhere. If other guys on our team have bad contracts, that's not on Forsberg. I would deal with those other problems completely independent from my intentions with Forsberg.
But if he goes through a full season of a Hynes-coached team here, then he's definitely going to be thinking he can win more elsewhere. And the only thing we can do about that right now... is Fire Hynes!
Kat Predator
Registered User
- Nov 28, 2019
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Actually, the Sharks were going for a Cup every season that DeBoer was the HC. They were all in.
Last season, Wilson shot himself. He spent a huge percentage of the cap to keep a broken shadow of EK65 in San Jose. That meant casualties to free up cap space. Significantly, Joe Pavelski was left to walk. It was basically the reverse of the Preds Subban move. Dump one of the key scorers and team captain (as well as a bunch of role players), but they'll be fine because Karlsson is so, so good. Those moves didn't keep them competitive with Vegas; they blew a hole in the bottom of the ship.
When it was abundantly clear that DeBoer couldn't will a defective roster to win simply because he had EK65, Wilson pushed the panic button. The losing continued, and Wilson ended up selling whatever he could at the trade deadline.
This is really the first year of an embraced rebuild. It's why Joe Thornton said, "So long!" The Sharks had a fairly empty pipeline and some bad contracts with EK65, Vlasic, etc. They have to play someone, so they've backfilled with dirt cheap free agents and ELCs.
By the way, Karlsson injured his groin again and has been out the last couple games. The Sharks have played noticeably better in those games to my eye. Martin Jones in particular looks like a different goalie altogether with the younger d-men actually skating hard and trying to play defense in front of him. Go figure.
LeighDx59
Registered User
My whole thing is that i'd like to see this core with an actual coach behind the bench, they did very well under Lavy until his message wore out after like seven years. And I believe we can all agree on Hynes not being an NHL coach. The talent is there, underwhelming yes but its there. I mean, if there is a smart hockey trade to be made, even to shake things up involving Johansen/Duchene/Ellis then go for it. And obviously im not expecting us to sell the farm on a trade either. I guess it boils down to what happens with Forsberg. He is basically our offense at this point unforunately, so if he decides he wants to leave then yeah, go into a full rebuild.
For now, let the season play out. Maybe theyll get lucky and find their way into a top three pick.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
My pessimism is about how those kids develop. Bringing them up in a losing culture just continues one's journey through eternal damnation. Been there and it massively sucks.
* * *
The bolded will not save you. It gives maybe a brief moment of hope, but unless you've got a strong base already for them to come in to, you'll go nowhere. And the Preds do not have a strong base of futures.
People seem to have this strange fascination with the idea of a High Pick Savior that will come in and make everything better. Team building does not work that way. Going out of one's way to reach for such a high-profile player just gives you someone to scream and yell at when things aren't made immediately better as a result of all the corners cut to get there.
predwings
Registered User
Delusions abound in here we are not contending anymore people. Forsberg is amazing but he has 1 year left after this year and if he’s not planning on resigning we need to look to make a trade with him the foundation of the future. I wouldn’t fault him either, looks as if we are in for a few years of bad play. We need to find a great developmental coach to rebuild the foundation and start getting packages and offloading contracts and getting experience for young players
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Your logical fallacy is strawman
Nobody is arguing that we should keep guys because "we're still contending". The point is that, by giving away too many too quickly, it is very possible to end up in Oilers or Sabres style eternal damnation.
Predsanddead24
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2019
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I’m not sure anyone is arguing the point you’re trying to argue against that we should just indiscriminately trade everyone at once either.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
That's what "blow it up" means. Get what you can for your core.
Predsanddead24
Registered User
- Mar 7, 2019
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This whole thread is about what blowing it up actually means to people...
If you read through it you’ll notice that there is a lot of nuance in what people mean when they say blow it up and rebuild. I’m not sure I’ve seen anyone advocate literally trading our entire core. Sorry but if you’re calling somewhat out for a straw man argument probably good not to engage in it yourself.
You still have to sell tickets, you still have to be somewhat entertaining and there's still a salary cap floor.
But I think this core can compete with a few pieces and the right coach, so I guess I might be delusional. I guess I'm just not as hockey savy as some....
But I think this core can compete with a few pieces and the right coach, so I guess I might be delusional. I guess I'm just not as hockey savy as some....
NoNecksCurse
#164303
- Oct 19, 2011
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i think most of our problems begin and end with johansen and Duchene (and turris). We had no #1 center our entire franchise so we were sold on this premise that once we get our number 1 center all our problems will be solved. we went all in on johansen and turris at the expense of our defense that was the envy of the league. turris was a dumpster fire and johansen has slowly but surely regressed. as well as at this point, i do think Duchene would enjoy releasing a country album more than he would continue to play hockey for us. 16 million tied up for 2nd line centers at best that aren’t particularly hard to play against. johansen can be when he wants to but they are just kind of there. we will be eating turris’ buyout for years.
Bringer of Jollity
Registered User
What's funny is that those three are also a semi-warning against doing a complete tank-job/blow-it-all-up being two #3 overalls and a #4 overall. What if we go the full rebuild route and the best we get out of it are Johansen, Duchene, and Turris-caliber players.
As much I’m all for a blow it up on cap friendly. In all honesty I think this team can still compete if coached the right way. Hynes is trash and made this team look worse than it ever has. Especially with the talent we have on this team
