What Does a Full Rebuild Look like .....

[LCPreds]

I’m ready to just nuke it. Maybe I’m being overly pessimistic but the core is already getting old. By the time we can get this fixed they’re likely to be on their downside. It’s not likely Josi or Ellis are going to get any better than they are today. Arvy has likely peaked. You don’t get faster as you get older. Goaltending is going to be a problem for at least 2 years.

Yeah I don’t like it but unless some coach change is truly the miracle cure (which I doubt) then this team is already toast. We get to witness a slow death for a few years with what we have and get nothing for it or take care of business and nuke it right now.

Again maybe I’m being overly pessimistic.

 

[Predsanddead24]

I’m ready to just nuke it. Maybe I’m being overly pessimistic but the core is already getting old. By the time we can get this fixed they’re likely to be on their downside. It’s not likely Josi or Ellis are going to get any better than they are today. Arvy has likely peaked. You don’t get faster as you get older. Goaltending is going to be a problem for at least 2 years.

Yeah I don’t like it but unless some coach change is truly the miracle cure (which I doubt) then this team is already toast. We get to witness a slow death for a few years with what we have and get nothing for it or take care of business and nuke it right now.

Again maybe I’m being overly pessimistic.

Yeah we're supposed to be in the part of this core group's career where we are competing for Cups and yet we are one of the worst teams in the league. I don't think you trade off everyone but we need to trim off some of the older players or else we will get stuck in mediocrity like the Wild have been for years or San Jose is now.

To me a rebuild means that you move one of the D and one of the centers. I wouldn't give away Arvidsson or anything but I would listen on him too. Bring in a new coach (I'd go Karl Taylor) and go with an actual youth movement. Hopefully with all your trades you can end up with a good amount of prospects picks to throw into the mix.

 

[herzausstein]

Fire Poile
Fire Hynes
Bring in temporary coach like from MIL Admirals coach

Trade off 4-5 of the following (bolded are my preference):

Haula
Cousins
Sissons
Boroweicki
Richardson
Granlund
Grimaldi
Jarnkrok

Trade for best futures package possible:
Ekholm

Trade if Price is right:
Arvidsson

Keep Benning as the 7th dman... it's hard to find someone that can just sit in the pressbox for much cheaper that won't hurt their development.

See if there's interest in Joey/Duchene

Send back to the AHL:
McCarron
Tinordi

Bring up/Play:
Pitlick
Davies
Carrier
Allard
Tomasino
Trenin
Richard

Run something along the following till the end of season:

Forsberg Duchene Tomasino
Tolvanen Johansen Arvidsson (unless someone steps up and pays big for him)
Trenin Jarnkrok Grimaldi
Cousins Pitlick Olivier

Josi Fabbro
Carrier Ellis
Davies Allard

Draft a dman in the 1-5 range whereever we land. Would be nice to get the 1st overall pick. Sign Farrance. Be bad in the 21-22 season and draft in the top 5 again where there are some excellent Centers and wings projected to be there. Start turning things around hopefully.

 

[Kat Predator]

Yeah we're supposed to be in the part of this core group's career where we are competing for Cups and yet we are one of the worst teams in the league. I don't think you trade off everyone but we need to trim off some of the older players or else we will get stuck in mediocrity like the Wild have been for years or San Jose is now.

To me a rebuild means that you move one of the D and one of the centers. I wouldn't give away Arvidsson or anything but I would listen on him too. Bring in a new coach (I'd go Karl Taylor) and go with an actual youth movement. Hopefully with all your trades you can end up with a good amount of prospects picks to throw into the mix.

Funny you mention the Wild. Paul Fenton started gutting their roster with a singular focus of getting younger. He didn't last much more than a year as their GM before ownership twigged to the idea he was clueless.

 

[Osprey]

This is one reason why it's important to fire Hynes ASAP, IMO. We need enough time to see if a new coach can get more out of this roster and determine if the problem is only coaching or also personnel before the trade deadline arrives. The trade deadline is the time of year when you get the most for players because other teams are desperate to load up for playoff runs. It might be especially a seller's market this season if teams de-value their picks in this year's draft because, reportedly, it might not even be held until next year. If Poile lets this opportunity go by, only to decide at the end of the regular season a month later to fire Hynes and blow it up, he will have squandered his chance at getting the best returns and essentially added another year to the rebuild.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Fire Poile
Fire Hynes
Bring in temporary coach like from MIL Admirals coach

Trade off 4-5 of the following (bolded are my preference):

Haula
Cousins
Sissons
Boroweicki
Richardson
Granlund
Grimaldi
Jarnkrok

Trade for best futures package possible:
Ekholm

Trade if Price is right:
Arvidsson

Keep Benning as the 7th dman... it's hard to find someone that can just sit in the pressbox for much cheaper that won't hurt their development.

See if there's interest in Joey/Duchene

Send back to the AHL:
McCarron
Tinordi

Bring up/Play:
Pitlick
Davies
Carrier
Allard
Tomasino
Trenin
Richard

Run something along the following till the end of season:

Forsberg Duchene Tomasino
Tolvanen Johansen Arvidsson (unless someone steps up and pays big for him)
Trenin Jarnkrok Grimaldi
Cousins Pitlick Olivier

Josi Fabbro
Carrier Ellis
Davies Allard

Draft a dman in the 1-5 range whereever we land. Would be nice to get the 1st overall pick. Sign Farrance. Be bad in the 21-22 season and draft in the top 5 again where there are some excellent Centers and wings projected to be there. Start turning things around hopefully.

That;s pretty much my vision except you left off Kunin. Ideally you can move one of Duchene Joey and let Kunin get a crack at 2C.

Funny you mention the Wild. Paul Fenton started gutting their roster with a singular focus of getting younger. He didn't last much more than a year as their GM before ownership twigged to the idea he was clueless.

The problem with Fenton was more just him not having a clue in general. That and being a horrible people person. In the end he likely won the Fiala/Granlund trade. Niderreiter/Rask was just stupid and didn't make them appreciably younger. Coyle/Donato ended up being a miss but isn't the worst trade I've ever seen. The other big trade that got nixed was Zucker for Kessel which actually made them older. The problem wasn't wanting to get younger it was just making random terrible trades that didn't work toward any singular goal.

 

[Jonesey]

I want the #1 pick in 2022. Shane Wright or bust.

 

[Scoresberg]

No to full-rebuild, yes to re-tooling around the current core with trading one of the top guys (one of Joey and Duchene or Ellis).

I figure we'd benefit from getting out of Duchene's deal right away when he still has value.. he's been a bad presence throughout his career and is not a guy you want to tie $8 mil a year for.

Ellis for two reasons. First, to re-sign Ekholm to anchor that 2nd pair and second, to change the dynamics on the top pair with Josi. I'd like to get a stay-at-home guy to play with Josi or move Fabbro to the top pair at some point in the future and bring up a guy like Farrance to play with Ekholm on the 2nd pair.

Goaltending will be a question mark until Askarov comes over but hey, Binnington won a Cup as well and Khudobin took Dallas two wins away from it. You never know when it comes to goalies.

I wouldn't judge the rest of the forward core based on the play under Hynes. Obviously, move guys like Haula, Richardson and Grimaldi if you can get any value back and if Granlund isn't in the plans moving forward, then move him as well.

 

[Kat Predator]

The problem with Fenton was more just him not having a clue in general. That and being a horrible people person. In the end he likely won the Fiala/Granlund trade. Niderreiter/Rask was just stupid and didn't make them appreciably younger. Coyle/Donato ended up being a miss but isn't the worst trade I've ever seen. The other big trade that got nixed was Zucker for Kessel which actually made them older. The problem wasn't wanting to get younger it was just making random terrible trades that didn't work toward any singular goal.

His stated objective, in any interview, was that the team was too old and he was going to make them younger. But that's where cluelessness comes into the picture. Did he actually do what he talked about? Meh. Apparently, just saying "I'm going to get rid of all the old players" doesn't make it happen. At least not instantaneously.

Fenton was really a draft guy and rubbed people the wrong way. Credit the Wild with quickly figuring out he was all bark.

 

[Byrddog]

I’m ready to just nuke it. Maybe I’m being overly pessimistic but the core is already getting old. By the time we can get this fixed they’re likely to be on their downside. It’s not likely Josi or Ellis are going to get any better than they are today. Arvy has likely peaked. You don’t get faster as you get older. Goaltending is going to be a problem for at least 2 years.

Yeah I don’t like it but unless some coach change is truly the miracle cure (which I doubt) then this team is already toast. We get to witness a slow death for a few years with what we have and get nothing for it or take care of business and nuke it right now.

Again maybe I’m being overly pessimistic.

Your really being realistic. The two veterans that will probably still be around will be Johansen and Duchene due to no one wanting those contracts. Unless one can be unloaded to Seattle which is not likely without sweetening the deal.

Keeping Josi and Forsberg is a feel good thing but realistically they will age out before this team becomes competitive again.

The two options burn it down and start over or do as the Kings and Sharks have done a player or two each year something that Poile has really attempted. Some here point out Buffalo as a reason not to burn it down but Buffalo is a pretty good team now besides atrocious goaltending the defense is still young and will take a little more time but the top 6 is solid. Every team that rebuilds suffers the inital years of suckage while the younger guys adjust to the league.

An argument can be made that doing it slow is just as painful, the Preds have been bad for two season now. And at this point a rebuild is forced upon them the pipeline has been traded away over the last 4 years to patch holes to just get to the playoffs. Time is now short on Trenin and Tolvanen who have combined to play 19 games this year and have but two points.

Reguardless of the path taken it is underway after 16 games 6-10 even having difficulty to beat the worst team in the division. People hate Willy and Mason but damn many here sound just like them. The on paper stuff is bullcrap. There are some really knowledgeable folks here about the game yet most are still in denial. Making up excuses for failures it has been clear a downward slide has been happening for a long time.

No matter what we think about which way to go this team will not be competitive for some time. It is going to test the fanbase and patience has not ever been a strong point for fans in Tennessee.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

I’m ready to just nuke it. Maybe I’m being overly pessimistic but the core is already getting old. By the time we can get this fixed they’re likely to be on their downside. It’s not likely Josi or Ellis are going to get any better than they are today. Arvy has likely peaked. You don’t get faster as you get older. Goaltending is going to be a problem for at least 2 years.

Yeah I don’t like it but unless some coach change is truly the miracle cure (which I doubt) then this team is already toast. We get to witness a slow death for a few years with what we have and get nothing for it or take care of business and nuke it right now.

Again maybe I’m being overly pessimistic.

My thoughts except I thought this about our core starting the year after our presidents trophy season. something has been off with this team for quite a while now.

And you’re not overly pessimistic. You would always call me out for my pessimistic ways in the past. i am the one that’s overly pessimistic.

 

[predhead1]

Granlund has slowed a bit since the beginning of the year, but the blame for that lies mostly with Hynes and his constant line-shuffling IMO. I'd rather try to re-sign Granlund and move Arvy if possible. I love what Arvy has done for this team, but he's a bit of a one-trick pony and while I respect the hell out of his effort and willingness to sacrifice his body, I fear that it has caught up with him to an extent. Granlund presents more of an overall offensive threat and is looking reliable in the D zone, so would be good to retain him unless we can get a great deal as the deadline.

As for other forwards, I think Haula, Richardson, Cousins, Grimaldi and Sissons are completely expendable. We know what they are, and I don't see any of them as significantly better than some of the youngsters that could be given an opportunity in their stead (Trenin and Pitlick in particular). Would be great to see Tomasino, but I think he only benefits from a call-up if Hynes is prepared to give him 1st/2nd line opportunities where he can play with other threats and not be asked to carry a line by himself.

On the back end, I'm on board with moving Ellis/Ekholm and trying something else in the bottom pairing. I'd feel a lot better moving one of Ellis/Ekholm if we knew Farrance was prepared to sign, but at this point I think we need to get some value out of those assets and run with younger options

 

[Scoresberg]

Granlund has slowed a bit since the beginning of the year, but the blame for that lies mostly with Hynes and his constant line-shuffling IMO. I'd rather try to re-sign Granlund and move Arvy if possible. I love what Arvy has done for this team, but he's a bit of a one-trick pony and while I respect the hell out of his effort and willingness to sacrifice his body, I fear that it has caught up with him to an extent. Granlund presents more of an overall offensive threat and is looking reliable in the D zone, so would be good to retain him unless we can get a great deal as the deadline.

Arvy has not been as good under Hynes but the man scored 34 goals in 58 games less than a season ago. I think you hold onto him and hope for a better coach. Not to mention, he's playing on a steal of a deal.

 

[triggrman]

The only line I've thought really worked this season was the Forsberg-Duchene-Granlund line but Hynes doesn't seem to like it. Maybe they produced too much.

 

[Scoresberg]

The only line I've thought really worked this season was the Forsberg-Duchene-Granlund line but Hynes doesn't seem to like it. Maybe they produced too much.

Yeah, that 5-point game for Forsberg was way too boring to watch. Not to mention, we now have zero lines that can produce as opposed to one.

 

[Legionnaire11]

The only line I've thought really worked this season was the Forsberg-Duchene-Granlund line but Hynes doesn't seem to like it. Maybe they produced too much.

I really don't understand why he won't go back to Forsberg and Duchene together, especially with Johansen out. He keeps Kunin there, it's crazy.

I'd go Forsberg - Duchene - Granlund and then maybe Jarnkrok as the 2C, tell him to play a defensive game, collecting the puck down low and launching Arvy on breakaways.

 

[Kat Predator]

Arvy has not been as good under Hynes but the man scored 34 goals in 58 games less than a season ago. I think you hold onto him and hope for a better coach. Not to mention, he's playing on a steal of a deal.

I'm also on the new coach before trying to pull a Senators on the roster train.

With a coach that puts players in positions to fail, it is simply too hard to evaluate who can do what. As just one example, Arvidsson was one of the most efficient scorers in the entire league and was a very solid all-around player who could play PK, PP, and top-line minutes. Under Hynes, he's not been good, but at the same time no one has played well. The exact same thing applies to Josi. Now Hynes has flipped him with Ellis in the first pairing in yet another attempt to force round pegs through his square hole system. Having Josi stand on the blue line during an offensive possession might look good on a whiteboard, but it intentionally eliminates one of the biggest match-up problem weapons the team has. It only makes sense if you think losing 3-1 is better job security than losing 7-5 or maybe even winning.

 

[Viqsi]

I’m ready to just nuke it. Maybe I’m being overly pessimistic but the core is already getting old. By the time we can get this fixed they’re likely to be on their downside.

And? So they aren't likely to be core contributors to a future team. That doesn't mean one gets rid of them all right away. Build around a hypothetical next generation and have the existing guys hold the line while they develop.

Throwing in Random Whomevers to do that instead Does Not Work. It never does.

 

[Roman Yoshi]

Had a weird dream last night we went full rebuild and traded Forsberg and Sissons to Anaheim for two firsts, Jacob Larsson and Brendan Ghule.

That was a weird dream.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Had a weird dream last night we went full rebuild and traded Forsberg and Sissons to Anaheim for two firsts, Jacob Larsson and Brendan Ghule.

That was a weird dream.

Two Anaheim 1sts anyway would be pretty huge. Vast gulf between picks up at the top of the draft and the ones in the crapshoot range that the contender teams are offering us.

 

[Soundgarden]

I'm in the camp of trading some guys but keeping some key vets.

Keep Josi and Forsberg unless we get something stupid. Keep Ellis to have some sort of vet presence on the back end. Keep Kunin, he's young and I want to see more of what he can do.

Expose Johansen and Duchene to Seattle, if they take them they take them. Otherwise keep them, to insulate the youth, with a real coach maybe they can get back to where they ought to be.

Trade: Ekholm, Arvidsson, Granlund. The first two can get 1sts+ prospects, Granlund could get a late 1st in the right scenario.

Also Trade: Any of our many random bottom 6 guys. Jarnkrok, Sissons, Grimaldi, Haula, Cousins, Richardson, Tinordi, Benning, Boro. If any team wants them have at it.

Goalies: Goalies are cheap and abundant, Rinne is going to retire soon and if Saros isn't it and Ingram doesn't come through then we can pick one up on the cheap as a stop gap before Askarov comes in.

Play the young guys my god! Once we get a new coach give Tolvanen a shot on the top 6, Trenin over Malone and McCarron please. The defensemen will have to get their feet wet before they get thrown to the wolves next year.

Next year:

Forsberg- Johansen- Tolvanen
Kunin- Duchene/Tomasino- Tomasino/Duchene
Tenin - Sissons - Pitlick
Assorted bottom sixers.


Josi-Ellis/Fabbro
'21 1st/Carrier -Fabbro/Ellis
Some combination of UFA/Farrance/Davies/Allard

Saros/UFA
Ingram

Head Coach: ANYONE ELSE!

That doesn't look too different from what we're running now, but with some actual potential.

 

[NoNecksCurse]

And? So they aren't likely to be core contributors to a future team. That doesn't mean one gets rid of them all right away. Build around a hypothetical next generation and have the existing guys hold the line while they develop.

Throwing in Random Whomevers to do that instead Does Not Work. It never does.

That makes little sense in the cap world, though? right? I’m trying to think of an example of the model of what you’re proposing actually worked and the organization went on to win a cup.

or are you proposing to slowly rebuild as in maybe a guy or 2 at the deadline then another guy in the summer? maybe another guy next years deadline kind of thing

 

[NoNecksCurse]

Look at past cup winners..

Tampa has stamkos and Hedman

Washington, Chicago, LA, Pittsburgh.

Hell, St. Louis may be the only team to not really suck at one point and get top 5 picks. I’m at work and could be wrong off my head but you have to suck hard in the NHL and get top picks to win cups. That could also turn into Edmonton. Depends on your GM and luck. See Duchene (3rd overall, 2009) and johansen (4th overall, 2010) as proof.

 

[jumb0]

Fire Hynes and give Karl Taylor the interim tag with a chance to earn the full time gig based on how the players respond and the rest of the season plays out.

"Everyone is available" but only think about moving Forsberg and Josi if we are absolutely blown away by the offer.

Trade Ekholm for the best offer that includes a 1st and a great prospect.
Trade Haula, Jarnkrok, Granlund, Sissons for picks and prospects.

Give Tolvy a solid look on the top 6, give Allard and Carrier a look on the 3rd pair.
Give Tomasino his 8 games but not just buried on the 4th line, put him in some opportunities to showcase what he can do.

If we can find someone to take Joey or Duchene and actually get some value without having to retain, do it. If not, expose them to Seattle and maybe entice them to take one but nothing higher than a 3rd.

 

[LCPreds]

And? So they aren't likely to be core contributors to a future team. That doesn't mean one gets rid of them all right away. Build around a hypothetical next generation and have the existing guys hold the line while they develop.

Throwing in Random Whomevers to do that instead Does Not Work. It never does.

I don’t disagree in general but also not sure keeping Josi (or other) until he retires is the best play for the Preds long term at this point. I guess it depends on just how much one feels his loss would hurt vs the return.

Again this is from the overly pessimistic doom and gloom side where one sees a rebuild no matter what. It’s just a matter of would you rather have top 5 picks or top 12.