Post-Game Talk: Well.. at least we scored? Leafs lose 3-1. Onto St Louis.

[Erdinger]

FWIW:

8 of Leafs next 12 games are on the road.

With a home game against Carolina on Monday. So chalk that one up as a loss as well

 

[King85Kong]

If Leafs don't put JVR -- Bozak -- Kessel together Leaf coach(s) they feel the team can't score and when they do that it creates the old scenario of the team not being able to defend and limiting shots and scoring chances against, because of their weak defensive play.

The bad news is together or apart the trio went 0-0-0 points combined on the California road swing, while Leafs were outscored 11-1 in the 3 games.

They looked much better with JVR on the second line and Winnik in his place. We had several scoring chances including 2 on 1's, but couldn't barre it. Should of stuck with the new game plan. Last night was a mess and we got dominated. Tried the old way for 3 years now without success. How long before they realize that it won't work? This team is the definition of insanity.

 

[Mess]

With a home game against Carolina on Monday. So chalk that one up as a loss as well

Canes are 4-1-1 since Jordan Staal returned from injury in the past 6 games. So it certainly will be a strong test for the Leafs.

On top of that the first game back from a road trip is always difficult and coming off the death valley California route the toughest road trip there might be.

But lets not get ahead of ourselves we still need to stop off in St. Louis before they get home.

 

[Liferleafer]

Any trades yet...no? Okay, still don't care then.

(I posted something similar to this about firing Carlyle and he was fired about 2 hours later, here's hoping)

 

[thewave]

Any trades yet...no? Okay, still don't care then.

(I posted something similar to this about firing Carlyle and he was fired about 2 hours later, here's hoping)

I am feeling your trade vibe.

 

[GoonieFace]

I am feeling your trade vibe.

Me too..I predict a huge shakeup today. Matt Frattin on waivers. Let the rebuild begin.

 

[Tyler Biggs*]

San Jose successfully drove to the net with reckless abandon and the second of San Jose’s three goals came when they pushed Reimer back in the blue paint, chipping in a loose puck. The defence wasn’t physical enough to give Reimer the protection he needed to prevent said goal.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

San Jose successfully drove to the net with reckless abandon and the second of San Jose’s three goals came when they pushed Reimer back in the blue paint, chipping in a loose puck. The defence wasn’t physical enough to give Reimer the protection he needed to prevent said goal.

Well....
The first (all important) goal happened when Gardiner decided to cover the point not the front of the net.

 

[Mess]

The Leafs have scored 8 goals in 5 games since Horachek took over which equals 1.6 goals per game. (Of those 8 goals 1 was a EN goal)

Under Carlyle the Leafs were the highest scoring team in the league (at various points) and the 130 GF /40 games = 3.25 GF/g.

What has happened to Leafs offense in the new system that is designed to reduce shots against?

 

[Ratboy]

missed another barn burner.

 

[SprDaVE]

Bozak, Kessel and JVR have been horrendous in this slide. Completely invisible. Garbage fire bad. JVR here or there is all right but the other 2 have been complete crap. I don't understand why Carlyle and now Horachek don't change up that line for more then a game or two. They put back a line that has not been dangerous, even with the man advantage. It's... *sigh*

Kadri, Winnik and Santorelli have created chances at least. Santorelli had a couple posts last night and Winnik had a couple chances as well, all stemmed from Kadri's passing ability.

I thought our 4th line last night was miles better then any other line though. Carrick played so well for his minutes. Frattin was pretty decent.

 

[Banic]

Let's not kid ourselves and make Kadri seem like he's doing well - he too is not. We can hope trades are coming or the team fully learns the new system.

 

[thewave]

San Jose successfully drove to the net with reckless abandon and the second of San Jose’s three goals came when they pushed Reimer back in the blue paint, chipping in a loose puck. The defence wasn’t physical enough to give Reimer the protection he needed to prevent said goal.

You can't win with guys like Rielly, Jake, Robidas. You can keep 1 of the above a token but really 3 can't exist on this team and expect results.

 

[SprDaVE]

Let's not kid ourselves and make Kadri seem like he's doing well - he too is not. We can hope trades are coming or the team fully learns the new system.

He's been average, I don't disagree. A lot better then Bozak, Smith and Carrick though.

I mean, Bozak has 1 shot in 3 games. ONE SHOT. And that shot was a low percentage shot. That's... pathetic. He's on our top powerplay from crying out loud. And he was a minus two last night...

 

[Hugh Mongusbig]

The Leafs have scored 8 goals in 5 games since Horachek took over which equals 1.6 goals per game. (Of those 8 goals 1 was a EN goal)

Under Carlyle the Leafs were the highest scoring team in the league (at various points) and the 130 GF /40 games = 3.25 GF/g.

What has happened to Leafs offense in the new system that is designed to reduce shots against?

but I thought Carlyle was the problem ?!?

He wasn't?!?

 

[Ratboy]

just watched the hilights. funniest part was the puck dribbling over the goalline with reimer having no clue where it was. mua hahaha

 

[ACC1224]

Great effort again. Hopefully it will start leading to wins.

 

[Mess]

but I thought Carlyle was the problem ?!?

He wasn't?!?

What about the improvement?

Leafs only gave up 87 shots against in the 3 CA games = 29 shots/g and they use to give up 34.5 shots a game under Carlyle.

Sure they went 0-3 losing them all, and were outscored 11-1 in the process but there is verifiable evidence that the coaching change has had concrete improvement of reducing shots against by 5 here on average.

The thing that Carlyle and Horachek have in common with both systems is the same player personnel. At some point the team evaluation process will identify the underlying problem behind the teams results.

 

[Gallagbi]

What about the improvement?

Leafs only gave up 87 shots against in the 3 CA games = 29 shots/g and they use to give up 34.5 shots a game under Carlyle.

Sure they went 0-3 losing them all, and were outscored 11-1 in the process but there is verifiable evidence that the coaching change has had concrete improvement of reducing shots against by 5 here on average.

The thing that Carlyle and Horachek have in common with both systems is the same player personnel. At some point the team evaluation process will identify the underlying problem behind the teams results.

Weren't you on the "shots against are a huge issue" train?

 

[TheOneArmedMan]

I turnd it off after the 2nd. With the way they were playing im not surprised. Reimer kept them in but they didnt do **** to help.

Just like how it usually goes.... start season off strong get playoff spot, by second half they start sucking and lose it. By the end of the season they will probably be in the basement.

 

[daveleaf]

Leafs loose three to some really good teams.....what bothers me was loosing against Car and Phy when both teams were on extended loosing streaks and Leafs were winning.

Even if this team figures out there game I'm not sure this group is right. I say keep most of the young guys and start to trade the rest and build through the draft and with young prospects.

 

[-DeMo-]

Team is now 3-16-1 when kessel doesn't produce a point

 

[Duffman955]

1-4

under horacheck

#sustainable

 

[Mess]

Weren't you on the "shots against are a huge issue" train?

Yes, Leafs were 29th in the NHL in most shots against so I thought it was clearly a problem.

I guess it comes down to how do you prefer to lose now as a Leaf fan?

- Under Horachek 1.60 GF/g & 3.40 GA/g with -9 (8GF & 17GA) Goal Differential but less shots against. (@5 games)

- Under Carlyle 3.20 GF/g & 3.05 GA/g with +8 (130GF & 122GA) Goal Diff but with more shots against. (@40 games)

Pick your poison !!!

Leafs score less and give up more goals against now but doing it while reducing shots against via a coaching change. I guess those that believe player personnel is the problem will have to patiently wait for changes to evaluate the results thereafter.

 

[Orfieus]

We are 3pts ahead of Ottawa but Ottawa has 2 games in hand and just beat MTL 4-1. Someone on this board pointed out that no team has made the playoffs with more then 32 losses. We are at 20 with 37 games left. That means, at a bare minimum, Toronto has to finish the season with a record around 25-12 to just squeak into the playoffs.

The season is over I'm afraid and TO needs to identify this and start making the appropriate decisions for next year. Franson needs to be traded and either Robidas or Panik will play on top line (not Reilly let him develop more on the 2nd line rather then putting him in a situation where he will fail). I also think Toronto will get more for Kessel and Phaneuf at the trade deadline rather then waiting for the draft. JVR Kadri and especially Lupul must should be shopped around but may get more at next year's draft (but if Florida will trade Ekblad for JVR+Gardiner+(AHL player) then do it asap!).

Edit:

Yes, Leafs were 29th in the NHL in most shots against so I thought it was clearly a problem.

I guess it comes down to how do you prefer to lose now as a Leaf fan?

- Under Horachek 1.60 GF/g & 3.40 GA/g with -9 (8GF & 17GA) Goal Differential but less shots against. (@5 games)

- Under Carlyle 3.20 GF/g & 3.05 GA/g with +8 (130GF & 122GA) Goal Diff but with more shots against. (@40 games)

Pick your poison !!!

Leafs score less and give up more goals against now but doing it while reducing shots against via a coaching change. I guess those that believe player personnel is the problem will have to patiently wait for changes to evaluate the results thereafter.

I'll take Horachek any day of the week. Had TO gotten a lucky bounce the game would have been tied. Shanahan waited too long to fire Carlyle and now the season is over before Toronto can get used to the new system.