Post-Game Talk: Wear your bag with pride! ... Oilers win 4-0

[The Perfect Human*]

Have you reconsidered whether this team can improve with present lineup?

I hope you have.

See what I was saying about staying the course and players and team getting better as is?

Takes time.

That being said playoffs or not this team has some holes heading into next season.

Mostly in the top-pairing defenseman department. You only really need 1 to anchor the big minutes with someone like Petry/Smid. But it's necessary.

I don't know what it will take to acquire said defenseman, but when that piece is in place this team will be ready to do big things.

 

[CupofOil]

Have you reconsidered whether this team can improve with present lineup?

I hope you have.

See what I was saying about staying the course and players and team getting better as is?

Takes time.

Don't get me wrong, i'm really excited about the win tonight. Just a fantastic effort and it gives a lot of hope for the direction of the team but i want to see more consistency. Obviously, i don't expect them to play THIS well every game but i want to see consistent effort and i don't want to see them get bullyed by the Blues, Kings etc.
They are in a nice stretch. 6-2 or something like that? But i want to see more consistency with this lineup. If they put up a clunker against a weak Calgary team on Monday then we're back to the drawing board.

With that being said....Especially if they win on Monday, i have changed my mind on them being sellers. Hemsky is obviously staying, i think that's a given but there's no way that Tambellini can trade Whitney now. A playoff run would be invaluable for the young guys and would help rejuvenate the old guys (we already seeing that with Horcoff and Smyth), it would be much more valuable than a 2nd round pick or whatever Whitney would net.
Tambellini needs to do some work in the offseason though. We need a top pairing defenseman and some top 9 toughness.

 

[Ritchie Valens]

Of course it takes time. new coach, somewhat new system. This was a stubborn team and Krueger pretty much said so multiple times. Several times in fact he identified that the "coachable moments" with this club came after losses. This suggests players with competing ideas that required some gradual convincing. I still think the Blues textbook performance last Saturday (while the Oilers were buying into the plan) speaks volumes. Remember Taylor Hall saying just 7 days ago THIS is how the team will continue to play and that they HAVE to. Hall knew. For some reason people entirely misinterpreted his comments. Now look where we are a week later?

Well, if this is the team we get to see compete, I'm glad Kreuger was able to get the guys to check their egos at the door, even if it took a bit longer than what many of us fans were expecting. Everyone forgets (myself included) it was only a seven day training camp this year. It'd be pretty tough to learn a new coaching philosophy in that short time and execute it.

 

[Brokenhead]

I agree with the Carlson/Alzner pairing. Obviously neither of these players have the upside of those 2, but they can be a really effective 2nd pairing version of those 2.

But the thing with Carlson/Alzner is that both defensemen are actually able of coordinating the break-out.

The break-out with Petry is either a great pass or him skating out of the zone with it, and he's gotten better at both as this year's progressed.

For Smid it's the Staios-esque shot off the boards or "get it out of the zone" swipe.

His contributions to the break-out is really minimal.

In the defensive zone, I feel Petry makes more mistakes than Smid. Smid is a rock in his own zone, it's rare to find him as the key contributor to an opposition chance/goal.

You must have seen the cult of hockey blog about the defensive zone breakouts. Anyone who has seen those stats would realize how much of a burden is put on Petry. He leads this team in zone exits by a country mile.
A lot of people complain about his giveaways, and he does lead the team, but he actually has less giveaways per zone exit than any D-man on our team.

 

[Replacement*]

Don't get me wrong, i'm really excited about the win tonight. Just a fantastic effort and it gives a lot of hope for the direction of the team but i want to see more consistency. Obviously, i don't expect them to play THIS well every game but i want to see consistent effort and i don't want to see them get bullyed by the Blues, Kings etc.
They are in a nice stretch. 6-2 or something like that? But i want to see more consistency with this lineup. If they put up a clunker against a weak Calgary team on Monday then we're back to the drawing board.

With that being said....Especially if they win on Monday, i have changed my mind on them being sellers. Hemsky is obviously staying, i think that's a given but there's no way that Tambellini can trade Whitney now. A playoff run would be invaluable for the young guys and would help rejuvenate the old guys (we already seeing that with Horcoff and Smyth), it would be much more valuable than a 2nd round pick or whatever Whitney would net.
Tambellini needs to do some work in the offseason though. We need a top pairing defenseman and some top 9 toughness.

Talent, speed, skill, depth, and willingness to play a system game was the difference tonight. This lineup is underrated. When we play the way we can, and with everybody rowing, we can dictate terms to a lot of clubs. We did that tonight.

Bieksa after first period pretty much acknowledged Oilers had too much speed/skill going in the first period and kind of shocked the nucks.

We've dismantled the Hawks the same way several times.

This is no illusion, this is the way the team can play and be explosive. But by committing to ALL ZONE play as they are doing.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That was our best game in a very long time.

Felt like the 9-2 game against the Hawks last year.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

You must have seen the cult of hockey blog about the defensive zone breakouts. Anyone who has seen those stats would realize how much of a burden is put on Petry. He leads this team in zone exits by a country mile.
A lot of people complain about his giveaways, and he does lead the team, but he actually has less giveaways per zone exit than any D-man on our team.

Not only Petry, but Justin Schultz is struggling at ES as well, mostly because of his partner Nick Schultz.

Petry, as a veteran, is somewhat keeping his head up out of the water with Smid there, but J.Schultz has an arguably WORSE break-out defenseman in Nick as his partner not making things easier for himself (as it should be for a rookie).

http://puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1467

Smid and N.Schultz are bottom-20 amongst NHL defensemen in zone-breakout ability. That's terrible.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Was it a Vancouver PP strategy to somehow slash Horcoff's stick each time? It seems like everytime they had one he ended up with a broken stick within a few seconds.

Any PP pressure they had with that 1st unit was because of that. The second he got his stick back the Sedin's were wasting away in the neutral zone.

 

[CupofOil]

Not only Petry, but Justin Schultz is struggling at ES as well, mostly because of his partner Nick Schultz.

Petry, as a veteran, is somewhat keeping his head up out of the water with Smid there, but J.Schultz has an arguably WORSE break-out defenseman in Nick as his partner not making things easier for himself (as it should be for a rookie).

http://puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1467

Smid and N.Schultz are bottom-20 amongst NHL defensemen in zone-breakout ability. That's terrible.

The team played their best game in ages tonight and have outscored their last 3 opponents 13-4 and this is all you can talk about? You must be a lot of fun at parties.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

That hat-trick goal scored by Hall is something I wish he'd do more often instead of looking for the bang-bang cross-ice pass. The G/D of the opposition is usually looking for the cross-ice to Eberle in those situations, and I don't think they've made it work once this season because of deflections/blocks due to sticks/bodies in the lane.

Hall looked off Eberle before quickly sliding it between Luongo's legs as he began to cheat over to Eberle's side.

I remember Hall scored a hat-trick vs ATL in his rookie season employing a similar strategy. It works.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

The team played their best game in ages tonight and have outscored their last 3 opponents 13-4 and this is all you can talk about? You must be a lot of fun at parties.

No, just giving credit to Petry/J.Schultz for putting up with tougher break-out situations because of their partners.

Not a fan of Nick Schultz whatsoever, and definitely not on the side of people that want to reward Smid with 4M+

 

[Kepler 186f]

That hat-trick goal scored by Hall is something I wish he'd do more often instead of looking for the bang-bang cross-ice pass. The G/D of the opposition is usually looking for the cross-ice to Eberle in those situations, and I don't think they've made it work once this season because of deflections/blocks due to sticks/bodies in the lane.

Hall looked off Eberle before quickly sliding it between Luongo's legs as he began to cheat over to Eberle's side.

I remember Hall scored a hat-trick vs ATL in his rookie season employing a similar strategy. It works.

That wasn't Eberle, that was Hemsky breaking to the net from the point. I believe it was Horcoff in the slot.

 

[CupofOil]

No, just giving credit to Petry/J.Schultz for putting up with tougher break-out situations because of their partners.

Not a fan of Nick Schultz whatsoever, and definitely not on the side of people that want to reward Smid with 4M+

Schultz has played better of late but yeah, he has struggled most of the season and i agree on Smid, no more than $4 mil/yr but i just find it odd that you are criticizing players after a dominant win.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

That wasn't Eberle, that was Hemsky breaking to the net from the point. I believe it was Horcoff in the slot.

Yeah thanks for the correction.

Either way, teams are keying in on that cross-ice pass and leaving Hall unmarked there on the side. This leaves Hall with tons of room to pull that play.

Even if they had 2 defensemen back (1 guarding Hall, 1 taking away the cross-ice pass), Horcoff could peel off into the slot for a Hall pass and shot from prime shooting position.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Schultz has played better of late but yeah, he has struggled most of the season and i agree on Smid, no more than $4 mil/yr but i just find it odd that you are criticizing players after a dominant win.

It was in context of praising Petry. I was explaining why him/J.Schultz are having a harder time than you'd expect on the transition/break-out because of their partner.

You don't need to come after me on every post...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Jock Rider

 

[Shanahanigans]

We all knew this team had the skill but it finally looks like they "got it". I have not seen a full 60 minute effort like that with system play, d zone play, o zone pressure, neutral zone support, etc. since 2006. 6-2-2 in the last ten. Over .500 points wise. Meaningful games in April. This feels so foreign.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Not only Petry, but Justin Schultz is struggling at ES as well, mostly because of his partner Nick Schultz.

Petry, as a veteran, is somewhat keeping his head up out of the water with Smid there, but J.Schultz has an arguably WORSE break-out defenseman in Nick as his partner not making things easier for himself (as it should be for a rookie).

http://puckprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=1467

Smid and N.Schultz are bottom-20 amongst NHL defensemen in zone-breakout ability. That's terrible.

Again, holy ****, what a flawed stat...from last year.

If you're passing the puck to another player in the defensive zone, and that player takes the puck out of the zone, it is somehow construed as a giant negative??

Do I need to explain to you how just about every single team in the NHL employs the strategy of leaving the more responsible defensive defenseman in their own zone to trail the play?

Reading the comments in Zona's post says it all. There is absolutely nothing concrete that's speak to any one player one way or another. It's another baseball stat, an attempt at a static measurement derived from a dynamic situation.

But quoting stats from last year to prove your point is really something else...just wow. Now that's some SERIOUS cherry picking.

 

[Moonlapse Vertigo]

Was it a Vancouver PP strategy to somehow slash Horcoff's stick each time? It seems like everytime they had one he ended up with a broken stick within a few seconds.

Any PP pressure they had with that 1st unit was because of that. The second he got his stick back the Sedin's were wasting away in the neutral zone.

It's definitely a strategy that they employ and it's not necessarily a slash. Henrik Sedin will often lean forward during a face-off and the stick will just... break when there's enough pressure applied. He's pretty much perfected it.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

We all knew this team had the skill but it finally looks like they "got it". I have not seen a full 60 minute effort like that with system play, d zone play, o zone pressure, neutral zone support, etc. since 2006. 6-2-2 in the last ten. Over .500 points wise. Meaningful games in April. This feels so foreign.

All this co-incides with the return of Horcoff. He's done a helluva lot to alleviate some of the defensive responsibility from RNH and some of the tougher minutes from both him and RNH.

It's amazing how a good 3C does that for your top players.

The Canucks became a winning machine after they got Manny Malhotra to anchor their 3rd line.

Detroit took a huge step forward after Helm emerged into an elite 3C.

Chicago took that next step when they got Pahlsson in 2010 - and Anaheim took it to another level with Pahlsson back in 2007.

It's an important position - and if I were the Oilers I'd never entertain the notion of a Horcoff buy-out until there's a replacement in place.

 

[Section337]

Individual talent is a wonderful thing to have, but nothing makes it work better than playing a team game. A group of you battling along the boards tires the other team out, they maybe won't be as crisp with their clearing attempts, they may lose you. Three of you rail roading the puck out of our zone may lead to a line change, when they may not get one in. Making the game not so easy for them, makes the game easier for guys with skill.

I loved the puck support out of our zone, I loved how hard they had to work to get it out of their zone. It's the meat and potatoes of hockey, which can go along with the dessert of their skill.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Again, holy ****, what a flawed stat...from last year.

If you're passing the puck to another player in the defensive zone, and that player takes the luck out of the zone, it is somehow construed as a giant negative??

Do I need to explain to you how just about every single team in the NHL employs the strategy of leaving the more responsible defensive defenseman in their own zone to trail the play?

Reading the comments in Zona's post says it all. There is absolutely nothing concrete that's speak to any one player one way or another. It's another baseball stat, an attempt at a static measurement derived from a dynamic situation.

But quoting stats from last year to prove your point is really something else...just wow. Now that's some SERIOUS cherry picking.

I don't think you watch good teams enough.

Yes, there usually is a primary puck-moving defenseman on each line that usually initiates the break-out.

But the other defenseman is still responsible in some way for the break-out. Teams tend to over-play/over-pressure the puck-mover, and often times he moves it to his partner to get the puck moving on his behalf.

Even the most "shutdown" of defensive defensemen - Willie Mitchell, etc gets this done with efficacy.

Have you ever noticed how Petry and Smid are often stuck passing the puck back and forth with each other, it's because Petry feels the pressure, sends it to Smid, but Smid doesn't have the confidence/ability to make that pass/play in Petry's stead. He ends up either banking it off the boards in some type of nothing play, or throwing it back to Petry who has to try to bob and weave for a lane again.

Whereas a unit like Edler-Hamhuis doesn't seem to have the same problems, because as "shutdown" a defenseman as Hamhuis is, he's still able to make a decent first pass.

Same goes for the Schultz pairing.

Maybe I can ask you this. Do you think Smid/Nick Schultz won't be bottom-30 players on that list again this year? If your argument is that it was last year's stats and it can't apply to this year, then I can't help you .

I guess Erik Karlsson being the best defenseman on that list makes him a garbage puck-mover because it was only last year

 

[Ol' Jase]

I don't think you watch good teams enough.

Yes, there usually is a primary puck-moving defenseman on each line that usually initiates the break-out.

But the other defenseman is still responsible in some way for the break-out. Teams tend to over-play/over-pressure the puck-mover, and often times he moves it to his partner to get the puck moving on his behalf.

Even the most "shutdown" of defensive defensemen - Willie Mitchell, etc gets this done with efficacy.

Have you ever noticed how Petry and Smid are often stuck passing the puck back and forth with each other, it's because Petry feels the pressure, sends it to Smid, but Smid doesn't have the confidence/ability to make that pass/play in Petry's stead. He ends up either banking it off the boards in some type of nothing play, or throwing it back to Petry who has to try to bob and weave for a lane again.

Whereas a unit like Edler-Hamhuis doesn't seem to have the same problems, because as "shutdown" a defenseman as Hamhuis is, he's still able to make a decent first pass.

Same goes for the Schultz pairing.

Maybe I can ask you this. Do you think Smid/Nick Schultz won't be bottom-30 players on that list again this year? If your argument is that it was last year's stats and it can't apply to this year, then I can't help you .

I guess Erik Karlsson being the best defenseman on that list makes him a garbage puck-mover because it was only last year

Holy crap, now I don't watch enough hockey??

So done with you, dude. You have a fundamental lack of how static numbers on dynamic situations need to be applied, and justifying using last years stats by the Karlsson comment is mind numbing.

Carry on with the Hall as a third line skill set player. At least there you're not trying use a statistic that is so inherently flawed it can literally be made to say absolutely anything.

Good god.

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Dubnyk 7th in save% amongst starting goalies (20+GP) this year. But he's why we're not in a playoff spot right?

 

[The Perfect Human*]

Holy crap, now I don't watch enough hockey??

So done with you, dude. You have a fundamental lack of how static numbers on dynamic situations need to be applied, and justifying using last years stats by the Karlsson comment is mind numbing.

Carry on with the Hall as a third line skill set player. At least there your no trying use a statistic that is so inherently flawed it can literally be made to say absolutely anything.

Good god.

If it makes you that upset you could just hit the "ignore" button. You know that right?

 

[The Nuge]

Was it a Vancouver PP strategy to somehow slash Horcoff's stick each time? It seems like everytime they had one he ended up with a broken stick within a few seconds.

Any PP pressure they had with that 1st unit was because of that. The second he got his stick back the Sedin's were wasting away in the neutral zone.

He did do something extremely smart though. Instead of standing around being useless, he decided to shadow Edler and take him completely out of the play, thus making it a 4 on 3 instead of a 5 on 3.5