WCQF: Wild vs. Stars Series Discussion

[Nino Noderreiter]

If only Granlund had a better shot... he's been an absolute beast and our best player. Even with his not so great shot, he seems much more willing to use it from the wing.

He actually took the puck aggressively to the slot.

Imagine if we got him a shot. Like went out and got a player who's really good at playing without the puck...that's a skill people often underappreciate. If the Wild went out and got a goal scorer with an elite shot who knows how to find soft spots in scoring areas and find the back of the net and get off one times and stuff accurately...Granlund would be putting up the kind of point totals expected out of him. (55-60 points)

Granlund has never played consistently with a linemate who's a threat to score consistently from anywhere other than around like 5 feet from the net. Parise isn't a sniper. He scores mucky goals. Same with Coyle...both of them can score with their shot, but that is the exception rather than the rule. Pominville hasn't really had that in awhile...you saw how good the Granlund and Pominville duo was even with a past-prime Pominville and a worse-Granlund and Pominville's shot never really really was at that elite level for me.

Context, context, context. We have to not only look at the results, but interpret them and look at why those results are the way they are. Instead of reacting to Granlund's play being underwhelming from the perspective of the hype he had around him coming to NA by saying that Granlund "sucks" as many have done this year...the better question would be...what would be the ideal situation around Granlund for him to be successful offensively. What kind of offensive system is that? What kind of players and play styles would he be best with? What should his role be? What kind of responsibility is he tasked with in other zones and how can we understand how executing those tasks might take away from his offense? What are the results and point totals of the players around him? Sure, it's easy to rail on Granlund for only scoring in the mid 40's, but didn't everyone else? Etc.

Once you ask yourself those questions ask yourself then what is the reality of the situation for Granlund? If you don't see a lot of matchup between the two...maybe there is more there than Granlund sucks.


Fact of the matter is that Granlund's role in all zones on the ice, increased defensive responsiblity as a center, the Wild's style of play offensively, and the linemates Granlund has played with this year can all be characterized at best as situations where you can't classify them as beneficial to Granlund's strengths.


I do think it is fair to say though that Granlund is never going to be the catalsyt for a 1st line and the "guy" you rely on to score. Granlund plays through other people as much as himself. I could see him thriving in a role with elite skill, speed, and goal scoring surrounding him.

 

[TaLoN]

I am not a huge Zucker fan at all and never have been.Granlund has spent the majority of his time playing with the Wilds top players whereas Zucker has spent much more time playing on the third and even fourth lines so I am not sure that is an even comparison.The fact that he puts up more ppg than another player who has also been a massive disappointment this year does not impress me all that much.

Zucker doesn't get the ice time because he doesn't deserve the ice time. Granlund earned all of his 22 minutes of ice time lastnight.

 

[Nino Noderreiter]

Granlund brings a lot more substance to the game and impacts every game in a variety of different ways and roles for this team even when he's not scoring on the stat sheet. Zucker is a negative player when he's not on the stat sheet. One earns heavy minutes...one doesn't. It's easy to understand why. Players do provide value past their point totals.

 

[TaLoN]

 

[Minnewildsota]

I'm beginning to think everyone related to the production of NHL hockey may be deficient in their vocabulary. There is a word that they seem to not know how to use; competitiveness.

 

[Wild11MN]

Yeah, why not use another phrase? Something like "battle level".

 

[WildRube09]

Man, I really hope Prosser stays in the lineup for game 4.....

 

[Minnewildsota]

Yeah, why not use another phrase? Something like "battle level".

Or "Level of compete".

Here's hoping they show up to play on Wednesday as well. Saturday wasn't too bad, just got a bad break.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Man, I really hope Prosser stays in the lineup for game 4.....

I thought he was rather effective in game 3. First defender to start pinching the zone. Wasn't noticeably bad in any scenario unless you count Sharp blowing by him and the rather fast Brodin.

 

[Wild11MN]

I don't think Prosser's been bad either. No problem keeping him in over Reilly, as weird as that sounds.

 

[57special]

Parise isn't a sniper? Spare me. He has scored over 30 goals 6 times, and scored as much as 45. He also scored 29 another year.

He has scored 300 goals in his career.

What has Granlund scored in his career? has he reached 30 yet?

This overhyping of this guy astounds me. He has had a few nice playoff games...so has Porter. I'm not trying to put him down, but the way Granlund's supporters make it seem like it's everyone else's fault but his for his lack of production is laughable.

 

[TaLoN]

Parise isn't a sniper? Spare me. He has scored over 30 goals 6 times, and scored as much as 45. He also scored 29 another year.

He has scored 300 goals in his career.

What has Granlund scored in his career? has he reached 30 yet?

This overhyping of this guy astounds me. He has had a few nice playoff games...so has Porter. I'm not trying to put him down, but the way Granlund's supporters make it seem like it's everyone else's fault but his for his lack of production is laughable.

I think he was just trying to say that Parise doesn't score his goals in the traditional manner that a true sniper would (someone like Ovechkin). Instead, Zach tends to grind out most of his goals.

I don't think that's a slight against Zach at all...he's not the first 40+ goal scorer that scores mostly garbage goals.

A true sniper does it like Ovechkin does, like Gaborik did for us, like Sakic did...a lethal shot that can hit from anywhere at any moment. Zach has a good shot, but he doesn't have a shot that is lethal accurate or quick etc.

Obviously I don't think the comparison was ever meant for Granlund's shot either...his shot is slow, we all know that. I just think he was wondering how it would work if we did have a traditional sniper is all. I think it's an interesting idea...but unless we get one, we may never know.

 

[thestonedkoala]

Good God, shut Parise down. Strap him to a bed or something, he doesn't need to be playing with a back injury. I don't care if it's the playoff, he doesn't need to play until he's 110%.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

I think I'd allow 86.55% but definitely not anything below that.

 

[Digitalbooya]

Okay, you got me, why that specific percent (86.55)?

 

[CROCODILE SEATS]

How do i make the playoff GIFs my avatar? TIA

 

[Wild11MN]

Right click on the one you want -> "Copy image location" or something similar. Then from the Edit Avatar page, paste in the URL of the image in the input box.

And don't right click on someone's avatar, right click on one in the Avatar thread.

 

[CROCODILE SEATS]

Right click on the one you want -> "Copy image location" or something similar. Then from the Edit Avatar page, paste in the URL of the image in the input box.

And don't right click on someone's avatar, right click on one in the Avatar thread.

Got it, thanks

 

[Bruce Granville]

I'm beginning to think everyone related to the production of NHL hockey may be deficient in their vocabulary. There is a word that they seem to not know how to use; competitiveness.

It's called "sisu".

 

[DANOZ28]

picture bears standing in the woods taking a whiz on a forest fire "we tried & tried but she still fried"

 

[JermDubs]

I know they have seguin out but lets not pretend the makeup of our team wouldn't be completely different with a healthy parise and vanek. We do have a solid team when everyone is clicking

 

[DANOZ28]

riddle me this, if thats all we need or needed why did we finish the season 13 points lower than last year? imo we are missing that elite game breaker such as a tarasenko.

 

[57special]

Also, imagine where we'd be if Haula didn't come out of nowhere to lead our best line in the past three months.

 

[StickSalute]

It was obviously mentioned in the game thread, but I am beyond fed up with watching Suter eat up 75-90% of every power play. He is truly awful. I find myself screaming at the tv every time he drifts to the corner of the zone with the puck. Not only is he managing to find the absolute worst position for a shot (being literally as far from the net as possible), but he's giving the defense an extra two defenders by boxing himself in with the blue line and the boards. It completely limits the options and I can't believe the coaches are ok with that. It's clear he's too scared to make plays in the open ice, so he retreats to the "safety" of the boards.

And the worst thing is that I see our entire team do the same thing constantly, pp or not. We are way too easy to push to the outside when we carry the puck into the zone, and it just gives the other team an extra defender because they only have to defend half of the ice. It's absolutely crucial that we learn to take the puck through the middle of the ice and force opponents to defend the entire width. Instead, we get the puck to a winger along the boards and it looks like they just put their head down and make a mad dash to the blue line without any other thoughts while the other team just pinches them off and forces the dump.

To me, this is the biggest problem with this team. They insist on playing along the walls constantly, and as a result, they don't force opponents to be honest and cover the full ice. I know it can be scary to have the puck out in space, and the chances of a mistake burning you go up, but that's what great players and teams have to do. And as the aggressor, the puck carrier should have an advantage over the defender having to react. As long as the team as a whole is supporting the puck carrier well, giving them options and getting back when the carrier jumps up, there's no reason it should be overly risky to take the puck off the walls. Unfortunately, I think this is a strong part of yeo's "system" that the haven't purged themselves pf yet. And for the record, I liked yeo, but I do think this type of play was a big part of what he wanted to see.

 

[StickSalute]

Also, on a different note, how are we collectively so bad at moving guys out from in front of our net? No one on our team makes it difficult for opponents to take that space and it's embarrassing. I think the physical stuff can be overrated at times, but that's just a matter of being engaged and competitive.