AHL: WBS Penguins Thread: season is over

[Gurglesons]

That’s worse than Simon’s like 16? Or Zars? Erods 16 pt pace of the past 20?

Why not zohorna? He’s got a 30 pt pace jn his 16 games so far while being sound defensive.

You seem to think you just plug a prospect into a diminished and defensive role on L4 and they succeed.

Zohorna should be playing in our top nine if he comes up. Currently, we don’t have a space for him. Sure we could go crazy and scratch and potentially lose Rodrigues, Heinen or Kapanen to waives for him, but seems stupid.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Great WBS talk everyone!

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Yeah, guys, please the thread on subject and move the Simon discussion to an appropriate thread.

Merci!

 

[WickedWrister]

Penguins prospect Valtteri Puustinen has been a success in any language

Any buzz about Valtteri Puustinen getting a call up? IIRC he was brought up for the Boston game but that was just to practice.

 

[Darren McCord]

You seem to think you just plug a prospect into a diminished and defensive role on L4 and they succeed.

Zohorna should be playing in our top nine if he comes up. Currently, we don’t have a space for him. Sure we could go crazy and scratch and potentially lose Rodrigues, Heinen or Kapanen to waives for him, but seems stupid.

I’m confused why we are waiving those guys for him but ok…

Anyways ya this should be moved from this thread

 

[Peat]

Penguins prospect Valtteri Puustinen has been a success in any language

Any buzz about Valtteri Puustinen getting a call up? IIRC he was brought up for the Boston game but that was just to practice.

Not really. At least, no media buzz about team intentions. Without wishing to continue the previous conversation, he's a guy who should be talked about for a top 9 RW slot if there's injuries, but if there's not, better for him to be playing big minutes in WBS over bottom line minutes in the big league.

 

[WickedWrister]

Not really. At least, no media buzz about team intentions. Without wishing to continue the previous conversation, he's a guy who should be talked about for a top 9 RW slot if there's injuries, but if there's not, better for him to be playing big minutes in WBS over bottom line minutes in the big league.

Cool, I'll check earlier in the thread to see the discussion. I'm sort of inclined to agree that he should log bigger minutes down in WBS, but the recent failure of the big club to generate anything at even strength outside of the Crosby line has me looking for alternative options. Best case scenario he plays for WBS in the playoffs then gets put on the taxi squad?

 

[Ryder71]

Beyond Nylander and POJ who IMO have a good bit of promise, I don't see any other WB guys as possible mainstays at the NHL level. Our prospect pool is poor and that's being kind.

 

[Gurglesons]

Cool, I'll check earlier in the thread to see the discussion. I'm sort of inclined to agree that he should log bigger minutes down in WBS, but the recent failure of the big club to generate anything at even strength outside of the Crosby line has me looking for alternative options. Best case scenario he plays for WBS in the playoffs then gets put on the taxi squad?

Hypothetically if we lose a top nine guy Zohorna is ahead of Puusy. Not sure anyone else is.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Remember that year we brought WBS guys up in and out of the lineup... can't remember the year, but none of those guys ended up being NHL stud or even regulars.

But they provided a much needed spark and the fans loved them. This is what the current Pens team needs, not crusty vets like Simon or ZAR that are comfortable. They need that energy that youthful first timers bring. Of course that would take a coach giving them time and not having them living in fear of making mistakes.

DOC looked like this earlier this season, but then looked over coached by Sully regarding his system.

I hate NHL coaches these days............hate, hate and hate them all. The league should fire them all, they do more harm than good to the sport.

 

[BillyOcean]

Really bizarre take to think talking about WBS guys who should replace guys at the NHL is somehow off topic.

Also, really odd take to consider 25% of your forwards lines as an insignificant talking point.

I guess maybe talking about Russia here would be appropriate since its OK in the GDT? Lol.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Penguins prospect Valtteri Puustinen has been a success in any language

Any buzz about Valtteri Puustinen getting a call up? IIRC he was brought up for the Boston game but that was just to practice.

The moment Sully can figure out how to use him on the 4th line, watch out!

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Remember that year we brought WBS guys up in and out of the lineup... can't remember the year, but none of those guys ended up being NHL stud or even regulars.

But they provided a much needed spark and the fans loved them. This is what the current Pens team needs, not crusty vets like Simon or ZAR that are comfortable. They need that energy that youthful first timers bring. Of course that would take a coach giving them time and not having them living in fear of making mistakes.

DOC looked like this earlier this season, but then looked over coached by Sully regarding his system.

I hate NHL coaches these days............hate, hate and hate them all. The league should fire them all, they do more harm than good to the sport.

I used to love those posts about how Sully loved to use youth and then they cited like the few times he did and how infrequent its become since his first 2 years and begs the question, was he wanting to use youth those 2 yrs or did he just have his guys and now that he's been in the NHL so long as a coach, his guys are veteran guys and the AHL guys are nobodies to him. He almost reluctantly used Friedman in his first game, barely playing 11-12mins. Then he played so well each game that he had no choice because it'd make him look bad.

The way he uses forward prospects is how he used Sprong. Throwing them in awful usage situations, situations made to fail not succeed. Meanwhile sure we get points, but that big club is going to get murdered in the playoffs because the coach has no idea how to use his lineup in varying ways to still succeed if that top line goes flaccid like it did 3yrs in a row already.

But hey, maybe JD can pull his head out of his ass and start coaching better and we see Puustinen and others continue to rise and look better as trade targets so we can fawn over them on other teams.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Doesn't look like I'll be able to watch Friday or Saturday. But perhaps I can on Sunday, depending how my drive goes.

 

[Coastal Kev]

I used to love those posts about how Sully loved to use youth and then they cited like the few times he did and how infrequent its become since his first 2 years and begs the question, was he wanting to use youth those 2 yrs or did he just have his guys and now that he's been in the NHL so long as a coach, his guys are veteran guys and the AHL guys are nobodies to him. He almost reluctantly used Friedman in his first game, barely playing 11-12mins. Then he played so well each game that he had no choice because it'd make him look bad.

The way he uses forward prospects is how he used Sprong. Throwing them in awful usage situations, situations made to fail not succeed. Meanwhile sure we get points, but that big club is going to get murdered in the playoffs because the coach has no idea how to use his lineup in varying ways to still succeed if that top line goes flaccid like it did 3yrs in a row already.

But hey, maybe JD can pull his head out of his ass and start coaching better and we see Puustinen and others continue to rise and look better as trade targets so we can fawn over them on other teams.

Spot on.... read this MARIO.........put down the damn wine for 2 seconds and read

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I used to love those posts about how Sully loved to use youth and then they cited like the few times he did and how infrequent its become since his first 2 years and begs the question, was he wanting to use youth those 2 yrs or did he just have his guys and now that he's been in the NHL so long as a coach, his guys are veteran guys and the AHL guys are nobodies to him. He almost reluctantly used Friedman in his first game, barely playing 11-12mins. Then he played so well each game that he had no choice because it'd make him look bad.

The way he uses forward prospects is how he used Sprong. Throwing them in awful usage situations, situations made to fail not succeed. Meanwhile sure we get points, but that big club is going to get murdered in the playoffs because the coach has no idea how to use his lineup in varying ways to still succeed if that top line goes flaccid like it did 3yrs in a row already.

But hey, maybe JD can pull his head out of his ass and start coaching better and we see Puustinen and others continue to rise and look better as trade targets so we can fawn over them on other teams.

Or maybe a lot of these guys who get cups of coffee in the NHL just aren't very good.

Sprong has had ample opportunity with Washington this year with their bevy of injuries and he has eight goals. That's not setting the world on fire.

Who have the Penguins missed on who isn't currently on the roster? Josh Archibald is a dime-a-dozen NHL player. Tom Kuhnhackl, Scott Wilson, and Derrick Pouliot are all out of the NHL before they hit 30. Does the NHL really miss Joseph Blandisi, Jean-Sebastian Dea, Adam Johnson or Thomas Di Pauli?

The only player who got a taste of the NHL under Sullivan who I think the Penguins missed on is Oskar Sundqvist. And I blame that on Jim Rutherford losing his mind over Tom Wilson and trading a 22-year-old Sundqvist for Ryan Reaves, not on Sullivan.

There is not one other young player who played under Sullivan who I would want on this current Penguins roster.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Or maybe a lot of these guys who get cups of coffee in the NHL just aren't very good.

Sprong has had ample opportunity with Washington this year with their bevy of injuries and he has eight goals. That's not setting the world on fire.

Who have the Penguins missed on who isn't currently on the roster? Josh Archibald is a dime-a-dozen NHL player. Tom Kuhnhackl, Scott Wilson, and Derrick Pouliot are all out of the NHL before they hit 30. Does the NHL really miss Joseph Blandisi, Jean-Sebastian Dea, Adam Johnson or Thomas Di Pauli?

The only player who got a taste of the NHL under Sullivan who I think the Penguins missed on is Oskar Sundqvist. And I blame that on Jim Rutherford losing his mind over Tom Wilson and trading a 22-year-old Sundqvist for Ryan Reaves, not on Sullivan.

There is not one other young player who played under Sullivan who I would want on this current Penguins roster.

The point, you missed it severely.

Edit:

No that post was so awful I have to address some of it, the fact that you zero in on Sprong and then whine about Rutherford shows how little you understood that situation, if there was a tag team belt for how to f*** up a prospect, Sully & JR won it. Ruining his development, burning his ELC year and ruining his waiver status, misusing him, what you see now is the full result of that and then you essentially victim blame Sprong, comically.

Reaves, while that trade was dumb, ask yourself who wanted it, because it was f***ing Crosby and "others" that told JR they wanted an enforcer on the team. Sid liked Reaves, oddly enough.

Drew O'Connor looked good in better usage, but when he was given ZAR's usage, he suffered, but he still drove offense better than ZAR ever did, so analytically and all that fun shit, DOC was a player you put in a position to succeed with those metrics, by accident it seemed, Sully did and DOC did well, then he was back to the 4th line and then to the AHL.

Friedman, also drives offense and has been good at it in his first few stints as a Penguin too, his defense was good enough to allow him in the line-up as a different look for a team that NEEDS players like him to help the rush and transition. It's why Sully loves RUhwedel, because he skates well and he can join the rush, but Ruh is f***ing awful at driving offense and the shot differential with him vs Freidman offensively is literally proof of that. The last game was visual proof that slapped you all game long even if you tried to ignore it.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The point, you missed it severely.

I don't think I have.

You guys are advocating change for the sake of change, just because the players in the AHL aren't Dominik Simon or Zach Aston-Reese. But what has Anthony Angello, Radim Zohorna or anyone else done to deserve a long-term shot?

Scott Wilson was over a point per game in the AHL when he got called up to the Penguins in 2015-16. Tom Kuhnhackl had 15 points in 23 games when he got the call in 2015-16.

I'm supposed to be impressed by Angello getting 11 points in 27 games so far? Even Puustinen and Nylander are behind the kind of pace that got Wilson, Kuhnhackl, and even Dominik Simon opportunities.

Produce in the AHL. Show you can handle a high level of responsibilities. Then you shape your game to stick in the NHL. The current group isn't seizing the moment in the AHL.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The point, you missed it severely.

Edit:

No that post was so awful I have to address some of it, the fact that you zero in on Sprong and then whine about Rutherford shows how little you understood that situation, if there was a tag team belt for how to f*** up a prospect, Sully & JR won it. Ruining his development, burning his ELC year and ruining his waiver status, misusing him, what you see now is the full result of that and then you essentially victim blame Sprong, comically.

Reaves, while that trade was dumb, ask yourself who wanted it, because it was f***ing Crosby and "others" that told JR they wanted an enforcer on the team. Sid liked Reaves, oddly enough.

Drew O'Connor looked good in better usage, but when he was given ZAR's usage, he suffered, but he still drove offense better than ZAR ever did, so analytically and all that fun shit, DOC was a player you put in a position to succeed with those metrics, by accident it seemed, Sully did and DOC did well, then he was back to the 4th line and then to the AHL.

Friedman, also drives offense and has been good at it in his first few stints as a Penguin too, his defense was good enough to allow him in the line-up as a different look for a team that NEEDS players like him to help the rush and transition. It's why Sully loves RUhwedel, because he skates well and he can join the rush, but Ruh is f***ing awful at driving offense and the shot differential with him vs Freidman offensively is literally proof of that. The last game was visual proof that slapped you all game long even if you tried to ignore it.

Of course O'Connor drives offense better than ZAR. Everyone drives offense better than ZAR.

The problem is that despite having an offensive zone start percentage of 74.19% (better than even the notoriously sheltered Evgeni Malkin), O'Connor had a high-danger goals for percentage of 27.27% (the lowest on the team) and a goals for percentage of 47.06% (lower than everyone but Malkin, Carter and McGinn, two of whom start almost 60 percent of their shifts in the defensive zone).

ZAR's offense sucks. But he has a HDGF of 59.09% and a GF of 58.06%, both among the highest on the team. He doesn't allow goals when he's on the ice. Part of that is his partnership with Blueger and McGinn when healthy, but it's also just what he does.

The game isn't just about driving offense. Yes, that's part of it, but it's also being able to be defensively responsible. If you score like Malkin, it's one thing to make some defensive mistakes. But O'Connor didn't score consistently. In fact, he hasn't registered a point in 17 straight NHL games. So he's been scoring like ZAR while playing worse defensively. Why should he be getting a shot again? Let him work on his game in the AHL and he'll get a shot next year.

 

[Darren McCord]

You guys are advocating change for the sake of change, just because the players in the AHL aren't Dominik Simon or Zach Aston-Reese. But what has Anthony Angello, Radim Zohorna or anyone else done to deserve a long-term shot?

Zohorna has 16 NHL games. in those games he has 6pts and is a +9. He was never scored on or if he was it was like once. What more do you want from him? Does he need a hattrick to get 1 more game? Prospects need some time to play and develop. 16 games over two years isnt enough to know either way.

What has Simon, ZAR or even Erod done to be deserve being in the lineup right now or in the past 20 games?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Zohorna has 16 NHL games. in those games he has 6pts and is a +9. He was never scored on or if he was it was like once. What more do you want from him? Does he need a hattrick to get 1 more game? Prospects need some time to play and develop. 16 games over two years isnt enough to know either way.

What has Simon, ZAR or even Erod done to be deserve being in the lineup right now or in the past 20 games?

I expect some pro Sully shit as his response even with metrics say lol to it.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Zohorna has 16 NHL games. in those games he has 6pts and is a +9. He was never scored on or if he was it was like once. What more do you want from him? Does he need a hattrick to get 1 more game? Prospects need some time to play and develop. 16 games over two years isnt enough to know either way.

What has Simon, ZAR or even Erod done to be deserve being in the lineup right now or in the past 20 games?

I want to reiterate that I would have no problem replacing ZAR and Simon with DOC and Zohorna. Zero issue.

I'm just saying there is some logic behind them not being in the lineup at the moment. DOC has to work on his defensive game and rediscover his production. Penguins management has repeatedly said Zohorna has taken a while to get his fitness back. Scott Young said it again in an article in the Post Gazette this week.

The reality is Zohorna and O'Connor are waivers exempt and you need bodies to survive a season. Simon and ZAR have been excellent defensively, so they're still providing something amidst their offensive struggles. Same with ERod. The Penguins have used 17 forwards in games so far this season. That's almost 6 lines worth of forwards.

If you chuck ZAR and Simon out the window, you creep dangerously close to having to play guys who aren't ready for the NHL. So, it becomes a business decision. You keep as many bodies as possible until the cap or waivers force you to do something. That's why Zohorna and DOC are in WBS right now. You can play Simon and ZAR in a fully defensive checking line role and let Zohorna and DOC continue to work on their games instead of playing out of their comfort zones.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Only vets get to make glaring mistakes that not even rookies do.

​

That'll learn'em. JD is carrying the tradition on.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Really bizarre take to think talking about WBS guys who should replace guys at the NHL is somehow off topic.

Also, really odd take to consider 25% of your forwards lines as an insignificant talking point.

I find the Salary Cap and Prospects threads more suitable for that talk. Plus "that talk" is invading all of the other threads, so it is quite annoying.

Besides, the first post in the thread clearly states what this thread is and isn't for.

 

[The Old Master]

Or maybe a lot of these guys who get cups of coffee in the NHL just aren't very good.

Sprong has had ample opportunity with Washington this year with their bevy of injuries and he has eight goals. That's not setting the world on fire..

when you screw up a player's development, you can mess them up for ever.