OT: Washington Redskins 2019 Season Thread Vol 7: The Offseason/Bruce Allen Fired

[AlexBrovechkin8]

You think Bosa is the reason for that, and he's the only star player on that team??

Uh, yes. Bosa has remade that defense. His presence opens up opportunities for everyone else and changes the way teams have to play against SF. They have five (I think) first rounders on their DL and the defense didn't take off until they acquired Bosa.

Not saying Young is going to the Hall of Fame but you so rarely get a chance to draft a player of his caliber that the offer would have to be absurd not to take it and if we're talking Miami as the trade down partner, 5, 18, and 26 doesn't move the needle for me, or even really come close.

Just staying in California, look at what Aaron Donald has done for the Rams. He made Jared Goff $100mm!

 

[Ridley Simon]

Like I said.

You figure a way to “game” the Tua/Herbert lovers into wanting 2. Just ensure you stay at 3. It’s not complicated.

It just may not be possible.

 

[g00n]

Uh, yes. Bosa has remade that defense. His presence opens up opportunities for everyone else and changes the way teams have to play against SF. They have five (I think) first rounders on their DL and the defense didn't take off until they acquired Bosa.

Not saying Young is going to the Hall of Fame but you so rarely get a chance to draft a player of his caliber that the offer would have to be absurd not to take it and if we're talking Miami as the trade down partner, 5, 18, and 26 doesn't move the needle for me, or even really come close.

Just staying in California, look at what Aaron Donald has done for the Rams. He made Jared Goff $100mm!

That defense is STACKED with top talent and Saleh is in year 3 of coordinating. I think that's more a factor than one guy. Correlation =/= causation.

We're also exaggerating the defense's ranking this season. While they were first overall in passing yds/g they were 17th in rushing yds/g and 5th in sacks. They improved sacks by about 11 (9 by Bosa) but passes defended soared from 39 to 86 (2 by Bosa). INTs rose from 2 to 12 (1 by Bosa). Forced fumbles from 11 to 23 (none by Bosa). Yet total tackles dropped by a lot (789 to 717 with 32 by Bosa). Bosa had 45 hurries/sacks/knockdowns in 16 games and was 8th in the league in that combined category. I don't think he's even a stat leader in any category.

People want to use the ripple effect theory for that? OK. Hard to prove. Seems more likely the entire defense improved, especially the secondary.

Even if what you said were true, is this Skins defense anywhere close to that tipping point? Or does it make more sense to fill in the numerous gaps all over the field then later look for that one guy to supposedly put them over the top?

But Snyder and Rivera are looking to win quickly so they may not be likely to stock 1st round picks over the next 3 years, for example. So they'll probably take the guy and hope they're "close".

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Young would be the 1st overall pick in most drafts, but Burrough rates higher than any QB since Andrew Luck (2012). The fact that he will go 2 OA is a value not found often.

I'd also take this opportunity to point out that you don't "fill holes" with the draft, you find good players at value. With the exception of the top 10 selections, the notion that you draft a guy and he "fills a hole" is a long running misconception. Most draft picks don't even pan out at all. Some do. Very few do right away. Finally when you start drafting for "need", you re-arrange your drafts lists to put players who fill "holes" ahead of players who are simply better, because those players who are better are in positions where you are strong already. When you draft for need, by definition you "reach" for the guy who fills the hole over the better player. So in the end, teams that draft for "need" tend to take far inferior players more often because of positional fit, vs because of pure NFL talent potential, and they end up with balanced rosters of mediocre players. The great drafting teams ignore "need" outside of the top 10 picks and draft BPA almost exclusively. They end up with more better players than the "draft for need" teams do over the long run.

The Skins have so many holes they can draft best player available and still fill holes along the way.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

I bet you SF is glad they didnt trade out of 2 for a haul of above average talent lol

I am sure they were glad but the Skins right now are not comparable talent wise to SF last year when they drafted Bosa.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Like I said.

You figure a way to “game” the Tua/Herbert lovers into wanting 2. Just ensure you stay at 3. It’s not complicated.

It just may not be possible.

Getting someone to pay us to move up to 2 while we stay at 3 would make me do lots of laughter

 

[Ridley Simon]

Getting someone to pay us to move up to 2 while we stay at 3 would make me do lots of laughter

Miami. We know that they desperately want a QB (ignoring everyone else for now). Tua blows the doors off his workouts before the draft.

Detroit tells everyone “we are open for business, come see us if you want a QB”. LAC, LV, DEN, CAR start twittering.

Miami says “NOPE” and send 5 and 29 plus later round picks to move to 3. Det is happy. Miami is happy.

Enter Riverboat Ron “we’ve got lots of holes, I’d deal 2 for a bunch of stuff. LAC, LV, DEN, CAR start twittering.

Miami says “NOPE” and send us the 3 and 18 for the 2. Or the 3 and their 2 2nds if 18 is just too rich. Miami is happy.

Redskins still get Young

 

[usiel]

I'd rather take young as I don't have much confidence in the Redskins ability to hit on later 1st round picks. Take the sure thing. I think the d-line scheme change will also give the defense next seasons in advantage early in the schedule.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

My ideal scenario. Miami gives 5, 18 and 26 to Skins to move up to 2. Skins give DET 5 and 26 to move up to 3. Skins have 3 and 18 to pick up Young and get either Tristan Wirfs (Iowa), Andrew Thomas (UGA) or Jedrick Willis (Bama) at 18 to replace Trent Williams.

If DET won't take 5 and 26 to move up to 3 then give DET 5 and 18 to go to 3 for Young then trade out of 26 to get back into the 2nd round and add additional 3rd/4th round pick.

 

[Todd Lazarchick]

I'll be honest, I want to trade down. Now that's predicated on a team like Miami paying the price as some of the previous posts have stated, but that's whats best IMO. Yes everyone loves Young, but everyone always loves the top 2-3 guys in the draft. The Redskins aren't one player away, we need an overall better roster. Everyone thought Clowney or Suh were going to be the next great thing on the Dline and they are good. But they don't carry a team. And what if Young is a bust? What if he ends up being a Diva and causing problems? What if he blows out his MCL in training camp? We put all our eggs in one guy this draft. We have no 2nd round pick. Go get solid picks, get multiple pieces, and overall that will be better for this team.

What if you draft another Doctson and Su'a Cravens while Young goes on to be the player he's supposed to be and you're continually picking mid teens? I'm glad you see it easier to turn 3 players drafting in the last half of the first and second into all pros over the guy who has been nothing but a monster so far in being what he's supposed to be lol

 

[Todd Lazarchick]

I am sure they were glad but the Skins right now are not comparable talent wise to SF last year when they drafted Bosa.

Allen/Payne/Ioannidis/Kerrigan were MUCH better than Buckner/Armstead/Thomas pre Bosa. Hell Thomas doesn't even play that much and he was their 3rd pick in the draft that year. And SF two best pickups were FA and a trade. You do realize we get to participate in FA as well right? This "we have to fill all these holes" is such a hollow argument when the team has nearly 90 million in cap space as well.

 

[Todd Lazarchick]

Miami. We know that they desperately want a QB (ignoring everyone else for now). Tua blows the doors off his workouts before the draft.

Detroit tells everyone “we are open for business, come see us if you want a QB”. LAC, LV, DEN, CAR start twittering.

Miami says “NOPE” and send 5 and 29 plus later round picks to move to 3. Det is happy. Miami is happy.

Enter Riverboat Ron “we’ve got lots of holes, I’d deal 2 for a bunch of stuff. LAC, LV, DEN, CAR start twittering.

Miami says “NOPE” and send us the 3 and 18 for the 2. Or the 3 and their 2 2nds if 18 is just too rich. Miami is happy.

Redskins still get Young

In reality Miami is the ONLY team with the capital to get to #2. So in turn they would only be bidding against themselves to get to 2. Redskins aren't going from 2 to outside the top 10. So you can cross out Indy and TB. That leaves Miami, Carolina and LA. For Car and LA it's going to take at LEAST a first this year, next year and a second this year and more. That's giving up practically a whole draft and your best pick next year. That's 2 of the 3 teams will be pretty much guaranteed a QB with us not NY taking 1. Miami only needs to move to 3 to secure their pick of the two. Car and LA only need to jump Miami to get their pick of whomever.

 

[kicksavedave]

In reality Miami is the ONLY team with the capital to get to #2. So in turn they would only be bidding against themselves to get to 2. Redskins aren't going from 2 to outside the top 10. So you can cross out Indy and TB. That leaves Miami, Carolina and LA. For Car and LA it's going to take at LEAST a first this year, next year and a second this year and more. That's giving up practically a whole draft and your best pick next year. That's 2 of the 3 teams will be pretty much guaranteed a QB with us not NY taking 1. Miami only needs to move to 3 to secure their pick of the two. Car and LA only need to jump Miami to get their pick of whomever.

I know the Skins themselves aren't great examples of what to do, but they used 2 future first round picks to move up to 2 OA for Griffin. 6 OA plus two more firsts plus two second rounders. And that was for a Heisman QB with an injury history, so almost a perfect parallel for this year with Tua.

3 Firsts this year or three firsts in later years plus a couple seconds, thats the list price. I can't see anyone paying that for Tua. I can easily also see everyone including Miami simply ignoring the Redskins and dealing with Detroit directly. The Skins can make all the noise and bluffs they want, no one should be fooled.

 

[Corby78]

What if you draft another Doctson and Su'a Cravens while Young goes on to be the player he's supposed to be and you're continually picking mid teens? I'm glad you see it easier to turn 3 players drafting in the last half of the first and second into all pros over the guy who has been nothing but a monster so far in being what he's supposed to be lol

there are two-three “monsters” every year. I’m not saying young won’t be good, but we need to make sure we get better after this horrible season. I don’t want all my eggs in one basket, not with this team.

 

[Corby78]

I know the Skins themselves aren't great examples of what to do, but they used 2 future first round picks to move up to 2 OA for Griffin. 6 OA plus two more firsts plus two second rounders. And that was for a Heisman QB with an injury history, so almost a perfect parallel for this year with Tua.

3 Firsts this year or three firsts in later years plus a couple seconds, thats the list price. I can't see anyone paying that for Tua. I can easily also see everyone including Miami simply ignoring the Redskins and dealing with Detroit directly. The Skins can make all the noise and bluffs they want, no one should be fooled.

you help my point though, RG3 was supposed to be a stud player and it blew up in our face.

 

[kicksavedave]

you help my point though, RG3 was supposed to be a stud player and it blew up in our face.

Right but the Rams really didn't get a whole lot for all those picks either... nothing is assured, and no strategy is universally correct.

But for me I trust they get Young and he's a stud more so than I trust they make 3 or 4 later picks and hit on more than one of them.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I'd rather take young as I don't have much confidence in the Redskins ability to hit on later 1st round picks. Take the sure thing. I think the d-line scheme change will also give the defense next seasons in advantage early in the schedule.

Yep that's my feeling too.

A guy like Young, if he hits his potential, can open up plays for the entire defense too. You have to make sure he doesn't get through, so the pass rush is open elsewhere. QBs get hurried, so pass coverage gets easier.

Gimme that guy.

 

[Holtbyisms]

I'm indifferent to either option. In a dream scenario we trade down one spot and pick up a second and still get young but that would take some other moves.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

My ideal scenario. Miami gives 5, 18 and 26 to Skins to move up to 2. Skins give DET 5 and 26 to move up to 3. Skins have 3 and 18 to pick up Young and get either Tristan Wirfs (Iowa), Andrew Thomas (UGA) or Jedrick Willis (Bama) at 18 to replace Trent Williams.

If DET won't take 5 and 26 to move up to 3 then give DET 5 and 18 to go to 3 for Young then trade out of 26 to get back into the 2nd round and add additional 3rd/4th round pick.

This would be nice but I can't see Detroit dropping past 4 unless they know the Giants won't take Okudah. Detroit's secondary is atrocious and it's a rare opportunity for them where BPA meets biggest need.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

Allen/Payne/Ioannidis/Kerrigan were MUCH better than Buckner/Armstead/Thomas pre Bosa. Hell Thomas doesn't even play that much and he was their 3rd pick in the draft that year. And SF two best pickups were FA and a trade. You do realize we get to participate in FA as well right? This "we have to fill all these holes" is such a hollow argument when the team has nearly 90 million in cap space as well.

Was referring to the 49ers defense and team as a whole being better than the Skins. That’s not really up for debate.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

This would be nice but I can't see Detroit dropping past 4 unless they know the Giants won't take Okudah. Detroit's secondary is atrocious and it's a rare opportunity for them where BPA meets biggest need.

I did say ideal scenario. Ideal for the Skins.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

People are losing there minds over this picture on social media.

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

People are losing there minds over this picture on social media.

Eli retiring and Brady and Rivers changing teams all in the same offseason would be all kinds of weird.

 

[Ridley Simon]

People are losing there minds over this picture on social media.

That’s classic. What a mind f***.

is he coming or going??????????