OT: Washington Football Team 2021 Offseason Thread 2: Roster Roulette

[CapitalsCupReality]

Yes but I forgot an important part of the speculation and you quoted before I could update what I forgot. The 2 billion difference in price depending on the name situation.

that’s nutty.....

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

Thank you Football Gods...

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[kicksavedave]

Post season awards are a popularity contest. Cooley recently said he was surprised Scherff made all-pro this season because his play was good but not all-pro great. He also said he didn’t watch a lot of games of other guards but Zach Martin moving to RT helped Scherff.

Ultimately, as good as Scherff is he is still a guard. Of all the spots on the O-line guard is still behind tackle and center in level of importance. Having said that, with the emergence of dominant DTs in the NFL like Aaron Donald, guards are important. But still 18 mil for a guard is nuts. DC can afford that for 2021 but, like with Cousins, playing on the tag will give Scherff more leverage after 2021. DC needs him but if they can’t get him resigned now he will be gone at some point soon.

A possible alternative is drafting a LT at 19 and putting Charles at guard.

The bold is only partly true. Pro Bowl voting is 1/3 by the fans, so popularity figures in there. But All Pro is 100% by the NFL media and Brandon Scherff is hardly a "popular" name, he earned his post season awards, Cooley's odd take not withstanding.

The importance of tackle/center vs guard is one thing, but without a high quality replacement, letting a top home grown talent leave for nothing (except maybe a 3rd round comp pick) is how the Redskins, err, WFT, have been operating poorly for two decades. I'm not advocating for overpaying or doing a terrible deal, but they need to find a way to keep Scherff long term. If they don't, they will hurt the QB and RB and WR production in the short term because they will need to replace him and they only have so many picks to spend on OL, with so many other holes needing attention. Plus, if its not a 1st or 2nd rounder, then we can expect maybe a 1/3, 1/4 chance that a 3rd, 4th or later round pick will even contribute at all. Putting Charles at Guard is a hope and a prayer move. He played what one snap last year? Our OL depth is suspect, I don't think a single guy behind the 5 starters can be counted on to pencil in as a starter. Our later round OL picks have not been stellar lately.

I'd make him the highest paid guard using incentives. It may seem expensive right now but it will be cheaper in 2-3-4 years, but it would protect us if he gets hurt again. I just don't see how you let him walk away like Cousins did and expect the team to improve in 2021.

 

[Neil Racki]

Scherff is a top 10 guard.

You dont pay 30 year old guards 15M plus. Guards like Wes Schweitzer and Ereck Flowers arent as good as Scherff but there comparative value is better.

Let Scherff walk, get the 3rd round comp pick,use the 15M signing a LT like Villanueva or a LB like Lamonte David.

Weve spent 2 4th round picks the last 2 drafts on guards -- let Martin and Charles battle it out or go find a Schweitzer clone (of which there are many).

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

Scherff is a top 10 guard.

You dont pay 30 year old guards 15M plus. Guards like Wes Schweitzer and Ereck Flowers arent as good as Scherff but there comparative value is better.

Let Scherff walk, get the 3rd round comp pick,use the 15M signing a LT like Villanueva or a LB like Lamonte David.

Weve spent 2 4th round picks the last 2 drafts on guards -- let Martin and Charles battle it out or go find a Schweitzer clone (of which there are many).

I mean I get where you're coming from but if they're not re-signing BS because he's 30 they definitely shouldn't then give that money to Lavonte David, who is 31.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Was just about to post that....

Report: Russell Wilson "stormed out" after his ideas for fixing Seattle's offense were dismissed — NBC Sports

Russ not happy..

Who exactly does Russell Wilson think he is? Demanding clout like that?

He’s no Deshaun Watson, that’s for sure.

I mean, seriously??

 

[Ridley Simon]

Scherff is a top 10 guard.

You dont pay 30 year old guards 15M plus. Guards like Wes Schweitzer and Ereck Flowers arent as good as Scherff but there comparative value is better.

Let Scherff walk, get the 3rd round comp pick,use the 15M signing a LT like Villanueva or a LB like Lamonte David.

Weve spent 2 4th round picks the last 2 drafts on guards -- let Martin and Charles battle it out or go find a Schweitzer clone (of which there are many).

I liked your post until the “LT like Villanueva”. I stopped reading then.

Steelers fans do not like the player. Like, at all.

if we spend 13m or north on a lineman, do it on Scherff or bring back T-Cancer Williams. Least make it worth the money.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

A factor not taken into consideration in this current discussion is whether or not Scherff wants to resign here. That is certainly in play.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[AlexBrovechkin8]

A factor not taken into consideration in this current discussion is whether or not Scherff wants to resign here. That is certainly in play.

I know it could just be talk but he seemed genuine in all of the interviews I've seen about wanting to be back. You can often tell when guys are just saying that kind of stuff because their agents don't want them to torpedo their leverage and maybe he's good at faking it but I didn't get the sense that it was just lip service.

 

[Neil Racki]

I liked your post until the “LT like Villanueva”. I stopped reading then.

Steelers fans do not like the player. Like, at all.

if we spend 13m or north on a lineman, do it on Scherff or bring back T-Cancer Williams. Least make it worth the money.

Im not a huge Villanueva fan either and I probably sign someone else at another position and just ride with Lucas but his position, LT > RG. Guards are plug and play position imo. Weve been able to find good production last 2 offseasons signing good value Gs in Flowers and Schweitzer.

You pay QB, LT, WR, CB 15M plus.

You dont pay a damn guard 15M plus and Scherff is looking for like 18M AAv? For a guard? I understand OL is important and BS is our best OL player ... but hes also a guard.

Besides ... weve been drafting 4th round guards for this very reason. Let Martin and Charles or some Schweitzer clone battle it out for G, take the 3R comp pick and use that 15-18M on a LB or WR or CB.

 

[Jacoby4HOF66]

 

[EroCaps]

My half-assed draft update:

Still like Mac Jones.

Prefer both Rondale and Elijah Moore to Toney if #19 is spent at WR. The first two get separation and break open plays. Toney has one excellent first juke but I don't think it'll translate to more than a gadget Mecole Hardman type.

Nick Bolton is a beast at the LB position that I think is getting overlooked bc of Parsons.

Eichenberg would make a great LT/RT pick at #51 if he drops.

 

[tenken00]

If you didn't want to give up the assets for DeShaun Watson, would you do it for the exact same asking price for Russell Wilson?

 

[kicksavedave]

Scherff is a top 10 guard.

You dont pay 30 year old guards 15M plus. Guards like Wes Schweitzer and Ereck Flowers arent as good as Scherff but there comparative value is better.

Let Scherff walk, get the 3rd round comp pick,use the 15M signing a LT like Villanueva or a LB like Lamonte David.

Weve spent 2 4th round picks the last 2 drafts on guards -- let Martin and Charles battle it out or go find a Schweitzer clone (of which there are many).

Maybe 2-4 years ago, that would have been true. But just in the NFC East, Brandon Brooks of the Eagles and Zach Martin of the Cowboys are each making more than $14 million per season. Both are right guards. Even the Giants are paying right guard Kevin Zeitler $12 million per season. If Martin and Brooks were UFA's this year they would be in the 15-16 range easily. Prices go up. Zach Martin's cap hit for 2021 and 2022 will be >$17M. Brandon Brooks cap hit over the next three years is also >$17M.

Letting Wes Martin and Charles battle it out sounds like throwing pennies into a wishing fountain. Hope is not a strategy.

We've had ONE All Pro since the mid 90s. Now he's too expensive even though he's going to be within the range for his position?

 

[kicksavedave]

Im not a huge Villanueva fan either and I probably sign someone else at another position and just ride with Lucas but his position, LT > RG. Guards are plug and play position imo. Weve been able to find good production last 2 offseasons signing good value Gs in Flowers and Schweitzer.

You pay QB, LT, WR, CB 15M plus.

You dont pay a damn guard 15M plus and Scherff is looking for like 18M AAv? For a guard? I understand OL is important and BS is our best OL player ... but hes also a guard.

Besides ... weve been drafting 4th round guards for this very reason. Let Martin and Charles or some Schweitzer clone battle it out for G, take the 3R comp pick and use that 15-18M on a LB or WR or CB.

The idea that guards aren;t important is also a relic of the past. This is a quote from one NFC coach.

The right side guard is important because he is the one who usually blocks the three-technique, usually the best interior pass rusher...and the interior pass rush can kill the quick pass game.

You want Wes Martin to take on Aaron Donald and Ndamukong Suh? The to be named WFT starting QB will disagree with that proposal.

 

[Neil Racki]

Resigning Brandon Scherff to a 5yr/90M/50M guaranteed is literally throwing away your last two 4th round picks.

Pointing out that Howie Roseman and Jerry Jones think paying guards 15M plus ... is not a good argument for why signing Scherff to 15M plus is the right decision.

Its a guard. I love Scherff ... but hes a guard. We got the best years out of him. Time to move on and not lock yourself into dead cap nightmare 2 years from now.

Literally the second least important and easiest position to fill next to running back.

A f***ing guard.

 

[Neil Racki]

The idea that guards aren;t important is also a relic of the past. This is a quote from one NFC coach.



You want Wes Martin to take on Aaron Donald and Ndamukong Suh? The to be named WFT starting QB will disagree with that proposal.

I agree guards have moved up in the hierarchy ... there not just fat guys with short arms that are asked to anchor for 2 second. They need to be agile enough to kick out and block in the open space etc .... but 18M for a guard?

Our highest paid player ... would be a guard. Im not saying guard isnt important, but its a position you can spend 5M on and get very good return. You cant find a starter LT or WR or CB at 5M per. They cost 15M plus. But you can find a good starter guard for 5M.

Im repeating myself so ill stop beating the dead horse.

Having a guard be your most expensive cap hit ... is dumb and makes no sense.

 

[kicksavedave]

Resigning Brandon Scherff to a 5yr/90M/50M guaranteed is literally throwing away your last two 4th round picks.

Pointing out that Howie Roseman and Jerry Jones think paying guards 15M plus ... is not a good argument for why signing Scherff to 15M plus is the right decision.

Its a guard. I love Scherff ... but hes a guard. We got the best years out of him. Time to move on and not lock yourself into dead cap nightmare 2 years from now.

Literally the second least important and easiest position to fill next to running back.

A f***ing guard.

Heh, touche. But actually the NFL guard cap hits these days are all creeping up above $15M, not just those two. And into 2022 and beyond, the trend continues.

Also, I'm not sure it will take 5/90/50 to get it done. I've seen 4/60/35 as what it will take, so we will just have to see what he ends up at, either here or elsewhere.

Bottom like to me is, you don't rebuild the Hogs by cheaping out and hoping 4th rounders become something they've never shown. Scherff's deal may seem expensive today, but he'll be well under market when the deal ends.

 

[kicksavedave]

I agree guards have moved up in the hierarchy ... there not just fat guys with short arms that are asked to anchor for 2 second. They need to be agile enough to kick out and block in the open space etc .... but 18M for a guard?

Our highest paid player ... would be a guard. Im not saying guard isnt important, but its a position you can spend 5M on and get very good return. You cant find a starter LT or WR or CB at 5M per. They cost 15M plus. But you can find a good starter guard for 5M.

Im repeating myself so ill stop beating the dead horse.

Having a guard be your most expensive cap hit ... is dumb and makes no sense.

He'd be our most expensive OL, not the most expensive player on the team, that would be AS. Hell, Erick Flowers, who we found on the scrap heap, is now getting $10-11M from Miami.

 

[Cush]

Kiper has 5 QB's going in the top 10 in his latest mock. Has Washington taking Christian Darrisaw

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

If you didn't want to give up the assets for DeShaun Watson, would you do it for the exact same asking price for Russell Wilson?

hell no.....Russ is old.

 

[CapitalsCupReality]

I agree guards have moved up in the hierarchy ... there not just fat guys with short arms that are asked to anchor for 2 second. They need to be agile enough to kick out and block in the open space etc .... but 18M for a guard?

Our highest paid player ... would be a guard. Im not saying guard isnt important, but its a position you can spend 5M on and get very good return. You cant find a starter LT or WR or CB at 5M per. They cost 15M plus. But you can find a good starter guard for 5M.

Im repeating myself so ill stop beating the dead horse.

Having a guard be your most expensive cap hit ... is dumb and makes no sense.

it’s beyond dumb, but look who we are, the WFT....so bad for so long, fans embrace bad moves lol...

Right Guard Contracts and Salaries | Over The Cap