Player Discussion Warren Foegele

[Bryanbryoil]

I think that I have found a way to try to give him more credit than I have to this point. I will consider him more of a Pisani type of a 3rd liner than a Moreau or Grier type. I personally love my 3rd line to be big and physical on the wings and Foegele most of the time doesn't bring the physicality that I like there like Moreau and Grier used to.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

He's a 26 year old player. Fully formed pro not an early 20's guy with more development runway. The Oil saw the latent raw elements in his game which tease that there might be more with this player, that hope of a 2W/top six player in a new home. Consistency is the difference between okay and good players. Foegele shows short streaks of very good play that promise more of a guy with great raw tools. But the game eventually regresses back to inconsistency.

Short bursts can be a pretty compelling support player. But the game regresses to one that's just okay wishing a player like Yamamoto (mind and grit) who gets everything out of his limitations could be transplanted into Foegele's compelling frame.

If hot at the right time Foegele can be a solid support player. Not an X factor to tilt a series but a solid bottom six support guy who can saw off opposition bottoms.

That says more about the oilers scouts than it does with Foegele if they expected to get that from him.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Pretty much as advertised. A highly streaky player with a raw skill set that looks like he should be a 20 goal scorer but hands and brain often can't keep up to those great wheels. Generally very poor with the puck. Strength is a solid defensive, responsible game that slots well as a 3W or 4W. Yet on a team with +29 goal share, the question is how is this player who averages sub 15 min toi a team worst -10?

Thought there would be more physicality judging by his first few games. In clear view now Foegele is a decent bottom six utility guy who can net 12-18 goals with size and speed to impose himself on other teams. Challenge is the consistency of motor and intent to do so.

I hope for hot Foegele for the stretch and playoffs. He has the raw tools to be a solid bottom six ice tilter. But hasn't shown the willingness to drive it with consistency (as advertised).

Tippett.

He is a positive player since Woodcroft came on.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

But it is. Foegele is one of a few vets that were brought in here, in name, Foegele, Ryan, Turris, that were supposed to be better options than walk on players of the nature of Shore, Sceviour, Perlini. That the latter hung around as long as they did is supporting evidence to how the vets didn't play well enough to lock up positions, and in a lot of games were not considerably better options.

By Foegele's own statements he said he needed more guidance, feedback, needed to be told what to do. Apparently he's getting that under the new coaching staff, and thats a good thing, but a veteran player should have more of a clue what he's doing out there than Foegele was showing much of the season. Trouble is Tippett was a sensible player. He played on good honest clubs that had a lot of players that played the right way and went onto become coaches. He's a student of the game. Foegele would be that type of player that is not an excellent student, but needs constant reminders. Woodcroft appears to be better handling that type of player than Tippett who probably presumed the player had more knowledge.

Foegele should be a player version of MacTavish. Its exactly the role he was brought in here to do. Unfortunately Foegele doesn't have the cerebral head for hockey that MacT had. Foegele does have some skill and moves to be able to bring the puck into positions where he could score more regularly. he doesn't have finishing mitts in traffic situations but can pot a clean goal here and there. Can be a good player but needs to be consistent and persistently pushed. Its not by accident that as players come in here like Archibald and Brassard that Foegele is playing better. he has to. Competition for spots got stiffer. Foegele is still that player a coach has to watch very closely and reign in. He isn't self directing.

No one on the lineup knew what the coaching staff wanted them to do out there.

This isn't just limited to Foegele.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

That says more about the oilers scouts than it does with Foegele if they expected to get that from him.

Holland raved about Foegele's 'analytics' as one of the drivers for pursuing the player. I'm sure the pro scouts were obviously in line too. Short burst highlights (going back to Foegele's junior days) paint a compelling picture when he's locked in. But the fan reports from Carolina forewarned of a highly inconsistent player which is how he's shown in Edmonton.

Decent hockey deal between two teams and their respective strengths. Foegele is what he is. But on Edmonton who have lacked quality bottom six depth since Chiarelli's yard sale he's a solid pro. Just got to ride the reality of his inconsistency.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Holland raved about Foegele's 'analytics' as one of the drivers for pursuing the player. I'm sure the pro scouts were obviously in line too. Short burst highlights (going back to Foegele's junior days) paint a compelling picture when he's locked in. But the fan reports from Carolina forewarned of a highly inconsistent player which is how he's shown in Edmonton.

Decent hockey deal between two teams and their respective strengths. Foegele is what he is. But on Edmonton who have lacked quality bottom six depth since Chiarelli's yard sale he's a solid pro. Just got to ride the reality of his inconsistency.

Most bottom 6 players are inconsistent.

That's why they're bottom 6 players and not top 6.

And his analytics were good with Tippett, and even better with woodcroft.

Holland was right about him.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Tippett.

He is a positive player since Woodcroft came on.

Foegele sank like a rock after an incredible debut with bash brother Kassian. Looked like this team had a formidable third line finally emerging. Then came the inconsistency. He also had elevated opportunities to play at 2W.

The reality of losing their starting 2B goalie and inconsistency of their other one cratered a promising start that further went sideways with near league leading injuries sewered every player's results not isolating Foegele under old coach. Healthy all boats are reset to where this team was projected to compete at. Woodcroft has done a stellar job but Foegele is as advertised a streaky player who can get hot and look like a top six talent but cool off quickly into a bottom six guy who has moonlighted on occasion under Woodcroft at 4W.

WYSIWYG

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Foegele sank like a rock after an incredible debut with bash brother Kassian. Looked like this team had a formidable third line finally emerging. Then came the inconsistency. He also had elevated opportunities to play at 2W.

The reality of losing their starting 2B goalie and inconsistency of their other one cratered a promising start that further went sideways with near league leading injuries sewered every player's results not isolating Foegele under old coach. Healthy all boats are reset to where this team was projected to compete at. Woodcroft has done a stellar job but Foegele is as advertised a streaky player who can get hot and look like a top six talent but cool off quickly into a bottom six guy who has moonlighted on occasion under Woodcroft at 4W.

WYSIWYG

And hes paid accordingly.

 

[Oilhawks]

Foegele was brought in to be a bottom 6 winger and was paid accordingly. He wasn’t brought in because they thought he’d be a top 6 winger.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Most bottom 6 players are inconsistent.

That's why they're bottom 6 players and not top 6.

And his analytics were good with Tippett, and even better with woodcroft.

Holland was right about him.

He was a player viewed with belief there was latent ability that could manifest into a top six wing in a new environment. He's had opportunity with both of this team's super elites. He's a 3W or sometime 4W. Okay but not necessarily a bargain. Again, as advertised, by many who saw him game to game.

 

[Oilhawks]

He was a player viewed with belief there was latent ability that could manifest into a top six wing in a new environment. He's had opportunity with both of this team's super elites. He's a 3W or sometime 4W. Okay but not necessarily a bargain. Again, as advertised, by many who saw him game to game.

Maybe I missed this, but I don’t recall the bolded being mentioned regarding the trade. Was this stated by the org?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I think that I have found a way to try to give him more credit than I have to this point. I will consider him more of a Pisani type of a 3rd liner than a Moreau or Grier type. I personally love my 3rd line to be big and physical on the wings and Foegele most of the time doesn't bring the physicality that I like there like Moreau and Grier used to.

Definitely will say I fall into this trap too. Moreau and Grier were two of my favourite support players for Oiler teams. Foegele has the frame to play a hard game but is not wired like those two. Pisani had such great hockey IQ to be a strong two way player and a great shot that he finished with. Foegele's size and skating ability leaves one hungry thinking there's more to be had. He'll flash the skills then go silent for games including little to know hitting. Don't have to put players through the boards but probably some of my old school attitudes about playing a support role. Strange too with the size and skating that Foegele doesn't get PK time.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Maybe I missed this, but I don’t recall the bolded being mentioned regarding the trade. Was this stated by the org?

Can't do a dive on this. More general impressions of the trade and raw elements of Foegele's game that there was latent potential still within the player. Foegele himself wanted to move for more opportunity.

Found quickly: Oilers trade Ethan Bear to bring in depth forward Warren Foegele

“He’s six-foot-two, he comes from a really good program,” Holland said of Foegele. “In Carolina, they’ve done a lot of winning the last two or three years, they’ve been a good regular-season team, they went to the final four a couple of years ago.

“He’s a big, strong guy, he can skate. He goes to the blue paint, he’s dependable. I think going into this free-agency period, with the addition of Zach Hyman and the addition of Warren Foegele, with the continued development of (Kailer) Yamamoto and (Jesse) Puljujarvi, re-signing Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and we’ve got Connor (McDavid) and Leon (Draisaitl), with Zack Kassian, I’d like to think we can put two lines together for sure and we would love to get three lines that can chip in with some offence.”


Foegele's had extended runs in the top six with time with McDavid and Draisaitl. Opportunity was there for the player. Now he's bouncing between 3W and 4W. If he played with a consistent motor there's a tantalizing frame and skating ability. There's more this player can give on a consistent basis. Not a hill to die on as my posting seem to suggest.

​

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

He was a player viewed with belief there was latent ability that could manifest into a top six wing in a new environment. He's had opportunity with both of this team's super elites. He's a 3W or sometime 4W. Okay but not necessarily a bargain. Again, as advertised, by many who saw him game to game.

Viewed by who?
Edit : Nvm you answered. So most people thought top 9 forward with some potential to fill in top 6. Which is exactly what he did.

 

[Oilhawks]

Can't do a dive on this. More general impressions of the trade and raw elements of Foegele's game that there was latent potential still within the player. Foegele himself wanted to move for more opportunity.

Found quickly: Oilers trade Ethan Bear to bring in depth forward Warren Foegele

“He’s six-foot-two, he comes from a really good program,” Holland said of Foegele. “In Carolina, they’ve done a lot of winning the last two or three years, they’ve been a good regular-season team, they went to the final four a couple of years ago.

“He’s a big, strong guy, he can skate. He goes to the blue paint, he’s dependable. I think going into this free-agency period, with the addition of Zach Hyman and the addition of Warren Foegele, with the continued development of (Kailer) Yamamoto and (Jesse) Puljujarvi, re-signing Ryan Nugent-Hopkins and we’ve got Connor (McDavid) and Leon (Draisaitl), with Zack Kassian, I’d like to think we can put two lines together for sure and we would love to get three lines that can chip in with some offence.”


Foegele's had extended runs in the top six with time with McDavid and Draisaitl. Opportunity was there for the player. Now he's bouncing between 3W and 4W. If he played with a consistent motor there's a tantalizing frame and skating ability. There's more this player can give on a consistent basis. Not a hill to die on as my posting seem to suggest.

​

That quote doesn’t really sound definitive to me other than they expected him to fit in a “top 9” winger role. Maybe it’s just me but I think if a player was expected to be able to play in the top 6, he would have had more opportunity to play there at the beginning of the season. Could be remembering wrong but only remember him being in the top 6 when there were injuries or the top 6 wasn’t pissing a drop and the blender got busted out. He definitely started on the third line.

 

[TheNumber4]

He's a 26 year old player. Fully formed pro not an early 20's guy with more development runway. The Oil saw the latent raw elements in his game which tease that there might be more with this player, that hope of a 2W/top six player in a new home. Consistency is the difference between okay and good players. Foegele shows short streaks of very good play that promise more of a guy with great raw tools. But the game eventually regresses back to inconsistency.

Short bursts can be a pretty compelling support player. But the game regresses to one that's just okay wishing a player like Yamamoto (mind and grit) who gets everything out of his limitations could be transplanted into Foegele's compelling frame.

If hot at the right time Foegele can be a solid support player. Not an X factor to tilt a series but a solid bottom six support guy who can saw off opposition bottoms.

You are probably right that he is what he is. But I can definitely see what Oilers management hoped they saw in him. At the end it's probably wishful thinking that there's more. But I do think with his size and speed there can be some small chance of hitting above his skill class.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I think that I have found a way to try to give him more credit than I have to this point. I will consider him more of a Pisani type of a 3rd liner than a Moreau or Grier type. I personally love my 3rd line to be big and physical on the wings and Foegele most of the time doesn't bring the physicality that I like there like Moreau and Grier used to.

When you look at his size, he is far closer to Pisani than the other two, so it is a fairer comparison. Despite being the most physical, he was still the smallest guy on his line last season, as he often played with Staal and Niederreiter.


He can be a decent forechecker and energy guy, but at 200lbs he's not someone you should look to bring size to a line.

Imo he's a guy you'd love to complement someone with size like Nick Paul, Boone Jenner, or J. Staal. If you go back a few years, he would have been the perfect guy to round out the Sheahan/Archi line back in 19/20.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Double post

 

[OilynutEsquire]

He's a 26 year old player. Fully formed pro not an early 20's guy with more development runway. The Oil saw the latent raw elements in his game which tease that there might be more with this player, that hope of a 2W/top six player in a new home. Consistency is the difference between okay and good players. Foegele shows short streaks of very good play that promise more of a guy with great raw tools. But the game eventually regresses back to inconsistency.

Short bursts can be a pretty compelling support player. But the game regresses to one that's just okay wishing a player like Yamamoto (mind and grit) who gets everything out of his limitations could be transplanted into Foegele's compelling frame.

If hot at the right time Foegele can be a solid support player. Not an X factor to tilt a series but a solid bottom six support guy who can saw off opposition bottoms.

If you can win the Calder at 26 I wouldn't say your developmental runway is at its end...


Power forwards like Foegele take longer to fully develop. He can be a very valuable player when he is playing at his best, much more valuable then a dman like Bear.

 

[CupofOil]

FTR, I'm not talking about an actual rookie like Holloway getting his first shot in the show, I'm talking about a veteran who's played in the NHL & knows what they're doing like a Derek Roy.
I'm gonna go out on a limb & say the Oilers made that trade thinking Foegele signed @ $2.75M/year was going to be a crash & banger who could effectively play in the top 6 a la Hyman. It may still work out that way but so far has not.

If that was the case, he'd be getting a lot more than $2.75m/yr and this is part of the problem around here when assessing Foegele's play, the unrealistic expectations.

Granted, his play has been inconsistent but none of that matters now. Holland brought him in to make them tougher to play against in the playoffs and it's no coincidence that he's ratcheting his game up now that the games are being played at playoff intensity. Also, that Woodcroft finally wised up and put him back with Nuge although he was playing on the McLeod line too at times in the last few.

The bottom line is if we get a big, fast 15 goal, 30 point winger who shows up in big games in the prime of his career for the next 3 years even with some regular season dips in play, that's well worth 2.75m/yr.
I hate to scapegoat coaching but Foegele, like many others, struggled to find a role under Tippett. Under Woodcroft, there seems to be more defined roles and a simpler system to execute.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

That quote doesn’t really sound definitive to me other than they expected him to fit in a “top 9” winger role. Maybe it’s just me but I think if a player was expected to be able to play in the top 6, he would have had more opportunity to play there at the beginning of the season. Could be remembering wrong but only remember him being in the top 6 when there were injuries or the top 6 wasn’t pissing a drop and the blender got busted out. He definitely started on the third line.

Wasn’t meant as a definite quote. Only a a quickly sources direct quote by Holland about the trade.

He started gangbusters on 3rd line then went quiet. Got several extended top six runs with both elites but could not produce consistency required. Oil covered their bases at trade deadline with Brassard inserted immediately at 3W so clearly Woodcroft & Holland felt they could upgrade to find more production. Foegele played at 4w until somewhat recently. Now we see a hot streak which is welcomed.

He’s a player that leaves one wanting when watching game by game play. Solid hockey trade but prone to inconsistent. Lots of ways to contribute as a bottom six forward. He’s not a player I’d panic trade as some speculation seemed to be growing in aome circles.

Per Carolina advance reports a player thar goes up and down in his level of play and can tease with some nice finish on occasion.

My own expectation from beginning of year was a 13-18 goal 30 point level player. But I thought one that would bring a consistent, hard game to a team lacking size and grit.

 

[fuswald]

Starting to ramp up as the playoffs are in sight. Just what the team needs. Kassian as well.

Good trade if that is the question here.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

If you can win the Calder at 26 I wouldn't say your developmental runway is at its end...


Power forwards like Foegele take longer to fully develop. He can be a very valuable player when he is playing at his best, much more valuable then a dman like Bear.

How many non Euro players challenge for Calder level recognition at 26? If anything they are pro battletested and hit the anHL running as completed mature players.

I don’t anticipate a pro player, especially non elites to stop trying to grow their games. However reality is mid-twenties the level of skill improvement is likely more marginal than career trajectory re-defining. Foegele put the off season work boots on training with McDavid’s crew. Suddenly improving his fine motor skills and coordination to grow his skill game and with that production is something else entirely.

Foegele is also not a power forward. He’s got decent size but does not utilize it to assert himself as power forward types assert themselves in hard areas in effort to overwhelm opponents with their physical advantages. Foegele is a finesse forward who uses speed to try to turnover pucks.

Said several times already a reasonable hockey deal with teams exchanging surplus depth. Foegele’s moonlighted mainly 3W and 4W since deadline ads the tram looked to Brassard in an effort to find more depth scoring at 3W.

Could there be breakthrough potential for him as you believe exists for mid career type support players? Maybe … but I’d like to see your list to share your opinion.

 

[OilynutEsquire]

How many non Euro players challenge for Calder level recognition at 26? If anything they are pro battletested and hit the anHL running as completed mature players.

I don’t anticipate a pro player, especially non elites to stop trying to grow their games. However reality is mid-twenties the level of skill improvement is likely more marginal than career trajectory re-defining. Foegele put the off season work boots on training with McDavid’s crew. Suddenly improving his fine motor skills and coordination to grow his skill game and with that production is something else entirely.

Foegele is also not a power forward. He’s got decent size but does not utilize it to assert himself as power forward types assert themselves in hard areas in effort to overwhelm opponents with their physical advantages. Foegele is a finesse forward who uses speed to try to turnover pucks.

Said several times already a reasonable hockey deal with teams exchanging surplus depth. Foegele’s moonlighted mainly 3W and 4W since deadline ads the tram looked to Brassard in an effort to find more depth scoring at 3W.

Could there be breakthrough potential for him as you believe exists for mid career type support players? Maybe … but I’d like to see your list to share your opinion.

He makes power forward moves to the net regularly. A finesse forward would be someone like McLeod......maybe we just have different views of what a powerforward should be doing. He is very effective downlow and regularly attacks the net


116 hits, that must be top 5 on the team, probably closer to top 3, seems like he pretty regularly uses his size........

Alex Burrows
Matt Moulson
Yanni Gourde
Pat Maroon
PA Parentau
Johan Franzen

Not all the best examples but lots of players breakout 25+

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

He makes power forward moves to the net regularly. A finesse forward would be someone like McLeod......maybe we just have different views of what a powerforward should be doing. He is very effective downlow and regularly attacks the net


116 hits, that must be top 5 on the team, probably closer to top 3, seems like he pretty regularly uses his size........

Alex Burrows
Matt Moulson
Yanni Gourde
Pat Maroon
PA Parentau
Johan Franzen

Not all the best examples but lots of players breakout 25+

Good list, thanks for it. Covers a lot of years between some of these listed so can be done but still rare measured against the norm of player development curves. A young power forward I like (yes our views are different) is similarly a later developing player who needed to grind lower pro development before emerging in Nashville, Tanner Jeannott. Power forward types for me are Lindros, Neely, Lucic who play in straight lines, thrive and love competing in all battle areas, will fight as part of an innate mindset that includes intimidation of opposition through an unrelenting desire to dominate. Driven by a strong skill set like scoring goals capable of 25+ goal season production and in case of the true elite Lindros and Neely 40 and 50 goal seasons. I think of the "Gordie Howe Hattrick."

Regarding Foegele, his hits are upper level on more of a finesse based team, with Yamamoto the team's smallest warrior within 9 hits. An entirely volatile, erratic stat or counting point, it's not a good measure for the quality of physical play. I don't see an instinctive physical nature with Foegele moreso a guy who leverages speed and anticipation to separate pucks and create turnovers. Not McLeod purely finesse but not one to drive his body instinctively to wear down or grind opposition.

I post within the recency bias of a hot Foegele showing his potential to score and impact games. However he had 3 goals in 24 games prior to this up elevator 5 game snipe show. Reminded me a wee bit of Ryan's brief flurry of offence which reset fairly quickly thereafter. Big picture spreading the offence is magic for this team. But that lack of prolonged Foegele scoring also saw the Oilers trade for Brassard and Woodcroft insert him immediately in the 3W spot.

Foegele can be a valuable support player for this team. We see it in small samples that drift into longer phases where the hands and feet don't cooperate together and shows zeros in other engagement opportunity areas in the box scores. Hopefully this hot stretch expands longer time frame and continues into the playoffs. He's a player who's been given opportunities with two head coaches across the lineup including stints with this team's super elites, 3W, and when the game drifted down to 4W.