Proposal: W. Nylander, Kerfoot, N. Robertson For B. Tkachuk

[Boxscore]

Toronto would probably not even take Tkachuk for Nylander straight up without any other additions
.

This must be a joke.

I hope.

 

[Menzinger]

We are looking at career highs for a 20 year old? Good argument.

Tkachuk is already the leader on his team - I dont think anyone sees Nylander on the same path.

You're not even making an argument other than "hes better because I say he is" lol.

 

[Menzinger]

Neutral Habs fan here... Leafs would do this in a heartbeat. Tkachuk is just what they need, plus the salary they’d be shedding would allow them to re-sign Muzzin and Barrie. Kerfoot and Robertson are being overrated big time here. Kerfoot is a dime a dozen player and Robertson could be another Petan.

This is the least surprising thing a Habs fan could say in this thread

 

[Pyrophorus]

Tkachuk is head and shoulders the most valuable player in the deal so I'm on the other side of the fence saying Ottawa says no way.

Nylander and Kerfoot being over-rated here.

How? What is your evidence?

 

[Pyrophorus]

This must be a joke.

I hope.

What's Brady done?
I know what Willy has.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Neutral Habs fan here... Leafs would do this in a heartbeat. Tkachuk is just what they need, plus the salary they’d be shedding would allow them to re-sign Muzzin and Barrie. Kerfoot and Robertson are being overrated big time here. Kerfoot is a dime a dozen player and Robertson could be another Petan.

so you think Toronto wants their center depth to be Matthews-Spezza-Gauthier-Brooks for the next 2 weeks? Even if you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend the value isn't incredibly lopsided in Ottawa's favour, it makes no sense for Toronto to do it

 

[Boxscore]

Points aren’t everything, Tkachuk has a unique skill set that Nylander cannot match. Perimeter players don’t win you games when it counts

This is exactly right.

Tkachuk would be absolute monster on the Leafs, giving them a dimension they do not currently have. He's the best player in the deal without question, and his salary will be a blessing for the Leafs over the next couple of years.

Brady will be every bit as great as his brother Matthew in the next couple of years. He's a future franchise piece, while the Leafs players are not. Nylander is a nice, offensive player but is overrated a ton by Leafs fans. He's coming off a poor holdout year and has 5 points in 8 games to start this season, which is underwhelming considering he's playing on a line with Auston Matthews, if I'm not mistaken. And, to Sens9292's point, Nylander is a classic, one-dimensional perimeter player, and those players tend to become less valuable during the playoff wars.

That said, from a depth perspective, I'm not sure the Leafs could pull this trigger on this exact deal, without at least another reasonably-priced, depth player coming back in return that could contribute. Robertson is a nice prospect, but he's not a deal-breaker when it comes to a deal involving Brady Tkachuk.

 

[Boxscore]

What's Brady done?
I know what Willy has.

Well, let's look at this objectively.

Nylander is 23 and his career high is 61 points in 81GP. This is 0.75 points per game. Tkachuk made the Sens as a rookie and scored 45 in 71, which was a 0.65 points per game average. He did this in his draft year, playing on an offensively-anemic team.

Offensively-speaking, Tkachuk and Nylander both project to be 70-80 point players during their prime years. You can't measure them on par today, because Tkachuk is beginning his second year in the league and Willie is 4+ years in. Also, you need to factor in the talent that Nylander has been surrounded by during his tenure with the Leafs... he's either been connected to the hip with Matthews, or he's been on a secondary scoring line that has faced better defensive match-ups while the Leafs' top line draws the top D assignment.

Now, let's look at the intangibles. Tkachuk is a big, physical kid who has great goal scoring hands and he gets most of his goals around the paint. He is a warrior who does not play the perimeter like Nylander. He also oozes leadership and will likely be a future captain for the Sens. He can also impact a game physically, similarly to his brother Matthew. When it comes to intangibles, Tkachuk blows the one-dimensional Nylander out of the water. There's honestly no comparison there.

Then we take into account the other pieces of the trade proposal. Kerfoot is a very nice depth player actually. I like him and he's valuable to a team. But he is more valuable to the Leafs than the Sens because he's a decent piece who can perform on a cheap contract. The Sens have a bunch of young talent who will eventually surpass Kerfoot, who will be passed over for their development.

Robertson is a nice prospect, like him too.

On paper, this is a "quality-stacked" trade that is appealing to the Sens, due to the pieces, but also very appealing to the Leafs because Tkachuk is CLEARLY the most valuable piece in the trade. And that's really not debatable. However, even though the offer is enticing from a Sens point of view, Tkachuk is the ONE forward on their them that cannot be traded, unless it's for an elite offensive titan like Johnny Gaudreau or Mitch Marner.

Finally, I'd encourage you to not use the "What's Brady done?" hyperbole when talking about a kid coming off a rookie season. It makes no sense. I mean, what have Jack Hughes or Kaapo Kakko done? They're rookies who each have 1 point in the NHL so far. These kids will be judged long-term, but they all project to be great players.

 

[Pyrophorus]

Well, let's look at this objectively.

Nylander is 23 and his career high is 61 points in 81GP. This is 0.75 points per game. Tkachuk made the Sens as a rookie and scored 45 in 71, which was a 0.65 points per game average. He did this in his draft year, playing on an offensively-anemic team.

Offensively-speaking, Tkachuk and Nylander both project

We'll stop here.
Do you want to project or win the thing...we're in a different situation.

How come you didn't mention one was a C?
...and a better defensive forward too.
Argument missing from many people.

 

[bert]

Nylander, Kerfoot, a prospect with 12g/19pts in 10 games and a 2nd.....


what?

leafs laugh and hang up. How awful would this look if Tkachuk settles in as a 50-60pt 2nd liner?

yikes

Like you could ever have an accurate take on anything leafs related. Its all fluff to Ottawa they have tons of assets like those pieces with lots more coming.

 

[bert]

aside from the team basically getting a similar winger, a C that would step right in on their top line, a prospect tearing up the OHL and a 2nd

If you think Tkachuk and Nylander are similar take up a new hobby.

 

[bert]

The confusion here lies in leaf fans thinking Kerfoot Robertson and the 2nd really carry any extra value for Ottawa. The sens have 5 second round picks in the next 2 drafts. They just drafted 3 players ahead of Robertson last year (i like the player but he doesnt fill a need). At center they have White, Brown, Tierney, Pageau, Chlapik, Ansimov, and Norris. There is absolutely no need for Kerfoot, he brings nothing they dont already have.

So ultimately its Tkachuk for Nylander which only the most biased Leaf fan would possibly think that Nylander carries more value. He has been an absolute no show in the playoffs and is a complimentary piece. Tkachuk is already a way more impactful player and has way more developing to go. He is a force already and plays with White and a fill in plug. Tkachuk isnt close to being done he put on 15 pounds last year and is still growing. While Nylander as a smaller skilled player is ptetty much finished developing. The sens need elite first line players not going to be doing a quantity for quality trade when the team has so little quality to begin with.

 

[topshelf15]

We arent trading Tkachuk.....Not while he is still a cheap asset anyhow,come see us in 2 years if EM is still around though

 

[bert]

This is the least surprising thing a Habs fan could say in this thread

The only hockey fans on earth that think Nylander is more valuable than Tkachuk are leaf fans that have never played hockey and just started watching the sport. Id like to congratulate you on your new hobby. Go take some skating lessons.

 

[bert]

Well, let's look at this objectively.

Nylander is 23 and his career high is 61 points in 81GP. This is 0.75 points per game. Tkachuk made the Sens as a rookie and scored 45 in 71, which was a 0.65 points per game average. He did this in his draft year, playing on an offensively-anemic team.

Offensively-speaking, Tkachuk and Nylander both project to be 70-80 point players during their prime years. You can't measure them on par today, because Tkachuk is beginning his second year in the league and Willie is 4+ years in. Also, you need to factor in the talent that Nylander has been surrounded by during his tenure with the Leafs... he's either been connected to the hip with Matthews, or he's been on a secondary scoring line that has faced better defensive match-ups while the Leafs' top line draws the top D assignment.

Now, let's look at the intangibles. Tkachuk is a big, physical kid who has great goal scoring hands and he gets most of his goals around the paint. He is a warrior who does not play the perimeter like Nylander. He also oozes leadership and will likely be a future captain for the Sens. He can also impact a game physically, similarly to his brother Matthew. When it comes to intangibles, Tkachuk blows the one-dimensional Nylander out of the water. There's honestly no comparison there.

Then we take into account the other pieces of the trade proposal. Kerfoot is a very nice depth player actually. I like him and he's valuable to a team. But he is more valuable to the Leafs than the Sens because he's a decent piece who can perform on a cheap contract. The Sens have a bunch of young talent who will eventually surpass Kerfoot, who will be passed over for their development.

Robertson is a nice prospect, like him too.

On paper, this is a "quality-stacked" trade that is appealing to the Sens, due to the pieces, but also very appealing to the Leafs because Tkachuk is CLEARLY the most valuable piece in the trade. And that's really not debatable. However, even though the offer is enticing from a Sens point of view, Tkachuk is the ONE forward on their them that cannot be traded, unless it's for an elite offensive titan like Johnny Gaudreau or Mitch Marner.

Finally, I'd encourage you to not use the "What's Brady done?" hyperbole when talking about a kid coming off a rookie season. It makes no sense. I mean, what have Jack Hughes or Kaapo Kakko done? They're rookies who each have 1 point in the NHL so far. These kids will be judged long-term, but they all project to be great players.

A post from a neutral fan that is accurate. Thank you.

Its truly incredible that multiple posters would make this argument.

'What has brady ever done' finished second in rookie scoring in the NHL in his d + 1 while being a physical force as a teenager. Matched Nylanders career high in goals in less games playing on the worst team in the league. While Nylander rides shot gone to Matthews on one of if not the most offensively gifted team in hockey.

 

[shortfuze]

This is exactly right.

Tkachuk would be absolute monster on the Leafs, giving them a dimension they do not currently have. He's the best player in the deal without question, and his salary will be a blessing for the Leafs over the next couple of years.

Brady will be every bit as great as his brother Matthew in the next couple of years. He's a future franchise piece, while the Leafs players are not. Nylander is a nice, offensive player but is overrated a ton by Leafs fans. He's coming off a poor holdout year and has 5 points in 8 games to start this season, which is underwhelming considering he's playing on a line with Auston Matthews, if I'm not mistaken. And, to Sens9292's point, Nylander is a classic, one-dimensional perimeter player, and those players tend to become less valuable during the playoff wars.

That said, from a depth perspective, I'm not sure the Leafs could pull this trigger on this exact deal, without at least another reasonably-priced, depth player coming back in return that could contribute. Robertson is a nice prospect, but he's not a deal-breaker when it comes to a deal involving Brady Tkachuk.

So Tkachuk could be a monster on the leafs but the leafs players are just nice pieces? Good job pumping up Tkachuk. You as well as none of us know what the leafs players will be. Just because Tkachuk brings a different skill set to a team doesn’t make him better.

There’s no question that Tkachuk could be a great piece for the leafs if he played for them. He has just as much potential on the leafs as the the leafs pieces. As much as people don’t want to admit it but Nylander is already a 1RW and Kerfoot could be a solid 3C. Nobody knows what Robertson will be. And that’s not even including a 2nd. It’s an overpayment.

 

[shortfuze]

The confusion here lies in leaf fans thinking Kerfoot Robertson and the 2nd really carry any extra value for Ottawa. The sens have 5 second round picks in the next 2 drafts. They just drafted 3 players ahead of Robertson last year (i like the player but he doesnt fill a need). At center they have White, Brown, Tierney, Pageau, Chlapik, Ansimov, and Norris. There is absolutely no need for Kerfoot, he brings nothing they dont already have.

So ultimately its Tkachuk for Nylander which only the most biased Leaf fan would possibly think that Nylander carries more value. He has been an absolute no show in the playoffs and is a complimentary piece. Tkachuk is already a way more impactful player and has way more developing to go. He is a force already and plays with White and a fill in plug. Tkachuk isnt close to being done he put on 15 pounds last year and is still growing. While Nylander as a smaller skilled player is ptetty much finished developing. The sens need elite first line players not going to be doing a quantity for quality trade when the team has so little quality to begin with.

not that I think Ottawa would do the trade cause Tkachuk is a great piece but a rebuilding team like Ottawa could always use good young picks and prospects. That’s the point of rebuilding.

 

[Kupo]

As a neutral fan, this is horrific for Toronto.

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

Nobody is going to take that albatross contract for the marshmallow Nylander unless it is an over payment.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

so you think Toronto wants their center depth to be Matthews-Spezza-Gauthier-Brooks for the next 2 weeks? Even if you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend the value isn't incredibly lopsided in Ottawa's favour, it makes no sense for Toronto to do it

You can find another Kerfoot, one with size for like a 2nd rounder.

 

[strattonius]

How? What is your evidence?

This is what you came up with for a rebuttal?

We look at the players performance, age and contract to determine their value. Perhaps the Leafs dont want to move all these parts but in a one for one swap, Tkachuk is the most valuable player being discussed.

 

[Boxscore]

So Tkachuk could be a monster on the leafs but the leafs players are just nice pieces? Good job pumping up Tkachuk. You as well as none of us know what the leafs players will be. Just because Tkachuk brings a different skill set to a team doesn’t make him better.

There’s no question that Tkachuk could be a great piece for the leafs if he played for them. He has just as much potential on the leafs as the the leafs pieces. As much as people don’t want to admit it but Nylander is already a 1RW and Kerfoot could be a solid 3C. Nobody knows what Robertson will be. And that’s not even including a 2nd. It’s an overpayment.

Tkachuk is already a stud but will end up a top-end force when he's 23 years old and fills out at 6-3, 220.

He scored 20+ goals as a draft year rookie in only 71 games and he was playing on a low-scoring Sens team. He hits, can fight, and plays in the dirty areas to score goals. Yes, Brady Tkachuk is a monster, and he is future captain material.

The Leafs players are nice pieces; Nylander is an awesome piece. But compared to Tkachuk, Nylander falls short. In their primes, both will score around the same points, yet Tkachuk will get more goals, will be a team captain, and will bring leadership and a physical element to the table. Sorry, but Nylander does not. He's an exciting, skilled forward who does all his damage around the perimeter. You go to war in the playoffs with kids like Tkachuk any day over a William Nylander. This doesn't make Nylander a bad player, because he's a very good player, but Tkachuk is better all-around.

Kerfoot and Robertson are nice players, but the Sens don't need them enough to move Tkachuk.

The whole wildcard here is what Tkachuk would do playing alongside Matthews. My goodness, I couldn't even imagine a team trying to stop two highly-skilled American beasts who are both over 6-3 and 200 pounds. Both with awesome hands and hockey sense. At the very least, we're looking at Getzlaf-Perry level type of dominance... then you consider the Tavares-Marner duo and the Leafs become a team nearly impossible to contain offensively. Not to mention Tkachuk will give them an element they desperately need. Quite frankly, he'd be the modern day Gary Roberts/Wendel Clarke player Leafs fans would fall in love with.

 

[Pyrophorus]

This is what you came up with for a rebuttal?

We look at the players performance, age and contract to determine their value. Perhaps the Leafs dont want to move all these parts but in a one for one swap, Tkachuk is the most valuable player being discussed.

One is still a mystery box
The other is proven.

You can't say Brady is the best piece, truly not knowing.
Maybe in the future...but you and I don't have a crystal ball.

 

[Pyrophorus]

One is still a mystery box
The other is proven.

You can't say Brady is the best piece, truly not knowing.
Maybe in the future...but you and I don't have a crystal ball.
Plus one is a C. C>W isn't it?

 

[4thline]

You can find another Kerfoot, one with size for like a 2nd rounder.

Who? What 25 year old 40 point 3C with 3 more years at 3.5 is available for a 2nd?