Blue Jays Discussion: Vlad Jr wait/watch II: Watch Harder

[TheMadHatTrick]

I hope no one takes Bergen in the Rule 5 draft tomorrow. He can be a useful bullpen piece as soon as this year.

If we take a guy in hoping for Tyler Jay, Richie Martin, or Jake Reed.

 

[Nineteen67]

Everything we've seen to date seems to indicate that they're at least going to give Vlad the chance to try playing 3B at the big league level. He's likely destined for 1B/DH eventually, but they're not going to force that move before it's necessary.

Yes, I was thinking....down the road ....after Smoak leaves. Let’s not forget Tellez struggled a little at first.

 

[deletethis]

The sunk cost fallacy and the Troy Tulowitzki release

Good read.

Verbose explanation of a simple concept that could have been explained in one sentence.

If your motivation is seeing that Tulo doesn't get an opportunity to play for another org in the next 2 seasons for competitive reasons then this is a straw man argument. If you hadn't given up hope that Tulo might have been able to play well for the 2019 Blue Jays, this is a straw man. If you think there would be a possibility of recovering a small amount in a future trade, this is a straw man. If you thought as an organization you morally owed a honest rehab of the player under your guidance, this is a straw man.

 

[Skin Tape Session]

Teams are getting smarter and i love it. These guys who used to get paid for what they did days are numbered. I think we will start to see more exstensions as guys jump on fair resonable money instead of testing FA.

 

[topched]

Teams are getting smarter and i love it. These guys who used to get paid for what they did days are numbered. I think we will start to see more exstensions as guys jump on fair resonable money instead of testing FA.

I’m up for moving Giles to a team that it’s balking at the price of some of these relievers. Think a good haul can be had.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Verbose explanation of a simple concept that could have been explained in one sentence.

If your motivation is seeing that Tulo doesn't get an opportunity to play for another org in the next 2 seasons for competitive reasons then this is a straw man argument. If you hadn't given up hope that Tulo might have been able to play well for the 2019 Blue Jays, this is a straw man. If you think there would be a possibility of recovering a small amount in a future trade, this is a straw man. If you thought as an organization you morally owed a honest rehab of the player under your guidance, this is a straw man.

The article was certainly lengthy considering the subject matter. Doesn’t mean it was incorrect.

I’m still genuinely curious as to why this is bothering you so much.

 

[Longshot]

Can anybody explain Scott Boras' constant digs at Jays ownership and management? I admit, I do understand some of his skepticism about ownership and management - I have had similar feelings myself.

But I continue to be baffled by his underlying theme that ownership doesn't or isn't willing to spend more money on the product.

Are they supposed to spend for the sake of spending?

For six straight seasons (13-18) the Jays started every season hoping to be in playoff contention. In many of those years the organization traded for or signed high profile players to augment the roster. Their run has ended with many of the key players exiting their prime years. Consider the record: they made the deal with the Marlins for multiple high priced players, they traded for Dickey and extended him, they signed Martin to a large contract, the acquired Donaldson and kept him for all four years of their control when it might have been better business to trade him part way through, the brought in Tulo and Price, they signed Happ and held on to Estrada.

There is an argument that they should have spent more, but you can make the same comments about every single team in baseball.

I know Boras has his own agenda and has never had much of a relationship with the Blue Jays, but if he is going to advance these kinds of arguments, he needs to bring some context to his comments.

 

[Discoverer]

Can anybody explain Scott Boras' constant digs at Jays ownership and management? I admit, I do understand some of his skepticism about ownership and management - I have had similar feelings myself.

But I continue to be baffled by his underlying theme that ownership doesn't or isn't willing to spend more money on the product.

Are they supposed to spend for the sake of spending?

For six straight seasons (13-18) the Jays started every season hoping to be in playoff contention. In many of those years the organization traded for or signed high profile players to augment the roster. Their run has ended with many of the key players exiting their prime years. Consider the record: they made the deal with the Marlins for multiple high priced players, they traded for Dickey and extended him, they signed Martin to a large contract, the acquired Donaldson and kept him for all four years of their control when it might have been better business to trade him part way through, the brought in Tulo and Price, they signed Happ and held on to Estrada.

There is an argument that they should have spent more, but you can make the same comments about every single team in baseball.

I know Boras has his own agenda and has never had much of a relationship with the Blue Jays, but if he is going to advance these kinds of arguments, he needs to bring some context to his comments.

The Jays have had remarkably few Boras clients over the last couple decades. I think that pretty much covers his disdain for the organization: he's not personally making much/any money off of them.

 

[Longshot]

Does anybody know, does Boras "go off" on other teams, or are the Jays a particular target of his? I realized after making my post, that my perception of his comments are seen through the lens of the Toronto media. Perhaps he does talk about other teams, but Toronto reporters focus on the local angle.

 

[deletethis]

I’m still genuinely curious as to why this is bothering you so much.

Ah yes, the classic loaded question: "Why are you so worked up over this?"

This intriguing situation is an odd combination of a player who seems profoundly ungrateful maybe even a bit spiteful and a GM seeming to be strangely indifferent and not particularly professional. It's just strange times.

Why are you so bothered by someone else's different perspective?

 

[ryno23]

Does anybody know, does Boras "go off" on other teams, or are the Jays a particular target of his? I realized after making my post, that my perception of his comments are seen through the lens of the Toronto media. Perhaps he does talk about other teams, but Toronto reporters focus on the local angle.

He goes after all teams especially those who don't spend big in FA. He went after the Cubs for not bringing Bryant up to start the season for Super 2 reasons. I think he attacks the Jays cause he knows they play in the 6 largest city in North American with a filthy rich conglomerate owner. He wants them to spend to drive up prices for all FA.

He is actually doing his job really well which is to make the most money for his clients or all players in general.

 

[deletethis]

Sometimes there are players who don't want to play in Canada or on artificial turf. Sometimes there are players who are great talents who are disruptive individuals to have on a team. Sometimes there are players whose performance is too uncertain to invest greatly into. Sometimes there are players who hail from a country that has a sitting government that is a sworn enemy of the US but not Canada. Sometimes there are players represented by Scott Boras.

 

[Anthrax442]

Darn, Happ is staying in NY

 

[Discoverer]

Ah yes, the classic loaded question: "Why are you so worked up over this?"

This intriguing situation is an odd combination of a player who seems profoundly ungrateful maybe even a bit spiteful and a GM seeming to be strangely indifferent and not particularly professional. It's just strange times.

Why are you so bothered by someone else's different perspective?

What's unprofessional about it? This kind of thing happens all the time. If anything, Tulo's camp seems to be viewing the team as MORE professional for releasing him.

 

[Diamond Joe Quimby]

Ah yes, the classic loaded question: "Why are you so worked up over this?"

This intriguing situation is an odd combination of a player who seems profoundly ungrateful maybe even a bit spiteful and a GM seeming to be strangely indifferent and not particularly professional. It's just strange times.

Why are you so bothered by someone else's different perspective?

Differing opinions are good. They're welcome in forum setting like this. I have troubling identifying whom you're arguing with, and where your contrarian opinion lands.

Perhaps I missed the alternative course of action you believe was the more intelligent or prudent way to proceed. Did you want him to report to ST, attempt to prove he was healthy, and make the team? Is it the timing of the release that bothers you?

 

[deletethis]

Perhaps I missed the alternative course of action you believe was the more intelligent or prudent way to proceed.

Tulo comes to camp. He can or can't play.

If he can't play, he further rehabs if he can rehab. If he can't rehab any further, he goes on permanent injury and we're done.

If he can play, he plays in spring training to prove that he's worth a spot on the roster somewhere. If he makes the team, he plays when the manager chooses to use him.

 

[Cor]

Rule 5 Draft starts in 5 minutes. Jays have the 10th selection. Apparently Ross Atkins said they may take a player.

So, I think they have a target, but are unsure if he'll make it to them.

 

[deletethis]

It would have been super weird if Happ had chosen to join a bottom feeder when a contender was willing to pay him.

 

[Cor]

Rule 5 Draft starts in 5 minutes. Jays have the 10th selection. Apparently Ross Atkins said they may take a player.

So, I think they have a target, but are unsure if he'll make it to them.

San Diego has a full 40 man, so they can't select in the MLB Rounds I don't think, so that means they we'll be picking 9th.

 

[deletethis]

Atkins has shown a tendency for contrarian prospect evaluations so you'd think he'd have a long list of potential Rule 5 picks for a team that isn't expected to compete for several seasons.

 

[Cor]

Chicago White Sox takes Jordan Romano, 3rd Overall from us.

Jordan Romano Minor Leagues Statistics & History | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[hoc123]

Damn and there does Bergen

 

[Cor]

Jays Pick;

Elvis Luciano, RHP, Royals
Luciano is in no way ready for a big league job and the lost development time would hurt him. But he is one of the more promising prospects available because a renegotiated contract has made him eligible as an 18-year-old with no experience about short-season ball.

Elvis Luciano Minor Leagues Statistics & History | Baseball-Reference.com

 

[Canada4Gold]

Well shoot, Bergen and Romano.

We too a pitcher from the Royals

 

[hoc123]

Wait we selected a guy from rookie ball?