TheGoldenGod
5 Star Man
- Nov 8, 2017
- 3,864
- 6,683
It is high time for Husso to play. I think the Blues as an organization wait too long to expose a top goalie prospect such as Husso to the NHL.
Many other organizations seem to take a different approach (Vasy, Soros, Murray, etc.), get them into the NHL at a younger age, and have a better history developing those goalies than the Blues.
All 3 of those guys got their first crack at the NHL due to injuries. In each of those situations, those goalies were 3rd on the depth chart and remained in the AHL until an injury to one of the team's 2 NHL goalies forced them into NHL action. All 3 took their opportunity and ran with it, earning more call ups and starts as they demonstrated that they were better than the NHL backup. But the developmental plan/approach wasn't to get them up to the NHL early.
In the case of the Lightning it does say a lot they were willing to move on from Bishop to give Vasilevsky full reign of the net.I disagree.
Vasi's been playing in the NHL for three years, since age 20. Similar story for Saraos. It is clear that the Preds and Lightning were intentionally exposing them to the NHL at a young age (20-21). Husso is essentially precisely the same level of prospect as Saros...also not far off of Vasi. I'm OK with last year but the signing of Johnson this year is overtly conservative and particularly unwise for an organization that may well need a #1 goaltender asap.
The problem with this kind of logic I think is that we are comparing Husso to Saros and Vasi, but also forgetting that these teams prior had legitimate #1 goalies who would be getting you 60-70 games. This allowed for a better opportunity for goalies like Vasi and Saros to get experience, but also not have to throw them into the fire (barring an injury) because you knew what you had in your #1. Vasi being a 1st round pick justified the Bolts to move on from Bishop, especially after he was injured and Vasi had to take the brunt work. Plus, Yzerman had to deal with the salary cap and what Bishop was wanting as a starter, so it made sense to give Vasi the starting roll. Saros is obviously the heir apparent, and he's going to get some good looks this year just based on Rinne's age. But again, Rinne has been a #1 goalie for years now, and there was never really a reason to bring in a rookie goalie to learn under him until just a few years ago.I disagree.
Vasi's been playing in the NHL for three years, since age 20. Similar story for Saraos. It is clear that the Preds and Lightning were intentionally exposing them to the NHL at a young age (20-21). Husso is essentially precisely the same level of prospect as Saros...also not far off of Vasi. I'm OK with last year but the signing of Johnson this year is overtly conservative and particularly unwise for an organization that may well need a #1 goaltender asap.
Those are all good good observations and questions.The problem with this kind of logic I think is that we are comparing Husso to Saros and Vasi, but also forgetting that these teams prior had legitimate #1 goalies who would be getting you 60-70 games. This allowed for a better opportunity for goalies like Vasi and Saros to get experience, but also not have to throw them into the fire (barring an injury) because you knew what you had in your #1. Vasi being a 1st round pick justified the Bolts to move on from Bishop, especially after he was injured and Vasi had to take the brunt work. Plus, Yzerman had to deal with the salary cap and what Bishop was wanting as a starter, so it made sense to give Vasi the starting roll. Saros is obviously the heir apparent, and he's going to get some good looks this year just based on Rinne's age. But again, Rinne has been a #1 goalie for years now, and there was never really a reason to bring in a rookie goalie to learn under him until just a few years ago.
Our glaring problem is we continue to rotate goalies and gave Allen a contract when most of thought he had more to prove. Add to that the struggles he has had since getting this contract, and you have a not so good situation with having Husso "learn" under Allen. It's all bad really, but there's not a whole lot you can do. Are you confident in Husso at this point, after one year in NA? Are you confident in this team to play great in front of him if you give him the reigns? Though I don't wish any bad on Allen, I had hoped he would be out some time to get a glimpse of Husso in the NHL.
The problem with this kind of logic I think is that we are comparing Husso to Saros and Vasi, but also forgetting that these teams prior had legitimate #1 goalies who would be getting you 60-70 games. This allowed for a better opportunity for goalies like Vasi and Saros to get experience, but also not have to throw them into the fire (barring an injury) because you knew what you had in your #1. Vasi being a 1st round pick justified the Bolts to move on from Bishop, especially after he was injured and Vasi had to take the brunt work. Plus, Yzerman had to deal with the salary cap and what Bishop was wanting as a starter, so it made sense to give Vasi the starting roll. Saros is obviously the heir apparent, and he's going to get some good looks this year just based on Rinne's age. But again, Rinne has been a #1 goalie for years now, and there was never really a reason to bring in a rookie goalie to learn under him until just a few years ago.
Our glaring problem is we continue to rotate goalies and gave Allen a contract when most of thought he had more to prove. Add to that the struggles he has had since getting this contract, and you have a not so good situation with having Husso "learn" under Allen. It's all bad really, but there's not a whole lot you can do. Are you confident in Husso at this point, after one year in NA? Are you confident in this team to play great in front of him if you give him the reigns? Though I don't wish any bad on Allen, I had hoped he would be out some time to get a glimpse of Husso in the NHL.
We did miss opportunity in last season to see how Husso would perform in NHL level. He was performing top notch at AHL and up NHL Allen was shakey and team lost games 'cus of him.
Yet again we come same thing. Vets vs. prospects. Yeo just doesn't want to give opportunity for kids when they have proved they could be ready.
This goes with players too, look how well Tampa and Preds have develope their players too, give kids change to play big icetime etc.
Generally just our franchises mentality is old vision. Vets vs. kids.
I hope in future our new coaches are currently knowing nowadays hockey and understand when give opportunity and be realistic without how many years you have under your belt hockey games at NHL vs. kid who has only play the game in console.
If our management fails to update and adjust from old hockey mindset to current hockey, we truly have long period of time before we can see the Cup in Blues.
I hate we lose all the prime years of our best players just for we can't find the right vision to our franchise.
It's on DA every bit as much as it is Yeo. He signed Chad Johnson when every sign pointed to finally getting Husso some games in the NHL.
We can still get him some games. But having him ride the pine to start in 9 out of the 10 games like Johnson would be terrible for Husso's development. Not to mention forcing Husso to come in relief in 2 games. Husso needs to play 40+ games this year. He was not going to do that full-time on an NHL roster. So signing a low-cost back-up (not necessarily Johnson) was a good move.
I disagree.
Vasi's been playing in the NHL for three years, since age 20. Similar story for Saraos. It is clear that the Preds and Lightning were intentionally exposing them to the NHL at a young age (20-21). Husso is essentially precisely the same level of prospect as Saros...also not far off of Vasi. I'm OK with last year but the signing of Johnson this year is overtly conservative and particularly unwise for an organization that may well need a #1 goaltender asap.
We can still get him some games. But having him ride the pine to start in 9 out of the 10 games like Johnson would be terrible for Husso's development. Not to mention forcing Husso to come in relief in 2 games. Husso needs to play 40+ games this year. He was not going to do that full-time on an NHL roster. So signing a low-cost back-up (not necessarily Johnson) was a good move.
I find it fascinating at how eager the management was with Jake and maybe they think their eagerness to give him the job is why he isn't succeeding?
Cause I'm with Carter, Husso should be playing.
But I also wouldn't worry much about it. So long as the team needs 4 goals just to have a chance at winning, Husso will eventually get a chance to play.
I don't get this narrative that the team was too eager to hand Jake Allen an NHL job but is unfarily stalling out Husso's development by not giving him an NHL job at 23.
What now?Are the Blues looking at Martinexz and Jordie Benn seem kind of old
Neat. Reality isn't on your side.
Vasi was first called up (as a 20 year old) when Ben Bishop left the game with an injury on December 15, 2014. Nabakov was the backup and he was playing pretty mediocre. He relieved Bishop on 12/15, took the L and the Lightning decided to start Vasi the next night since it was a back to back and Nabokov had been an underwhelming backup over 10 weeks. Vasi allowed 1 goal on 24 shots. Nabokov got the next start, had another bad game and Vasi started the next game (which was another back-to-back) and took a loss in a game in which he stopped 45 of 47. He played two more games and was then returned to the AHL once Bishop was healthy. About a month later the team waived Nabokov and brought up Vasi to be the backup.
Saros played his first NHL game at 20 due to an injury to Carter Hutton. He was called up and played the tail end of a back to back and then didn't play another NHL game that year. Next season, he initially lost the backup job to Marek Mazanek (a 25 year old Preds prospect in a similar situation to Binnington). Mazanek wasn't good in his limited NHL time while Saros was playing lights out in the AHL. Reports were that the plan was to keep Saros in the AHL in 2016/17, but Mazanek was hot garbage (.839 SV% through 4 games) and Saros took the backup job from him in mid-December. The plan was not to ease Saros into the NHL at 21. Plan A was to keep him in the AHL, but piss poor play from an older goalie prospect gave him an unexpected opportunity (which he thrived in).
Matt Murray got his shot in 2016 when Fleury suffered a concussion. He played 4 games and was returned to the AHL when Flower returned. He was recalled a couple months later when the Pens gave up on Zatkoff and then got a huge opportunity when Fleury suffered another concussion in April. He turned 22 during the playoffs that year.
None of those examples had the team giving the 20-21 year old goalie the backup job. They got their chances when a starter went down or the backup imploded. The spring of last year is the only significant injury to a goalie that could have given Husso that chance. In that stretch, Allen went 8-2-0 with a .926 while we were in must-win mode trying to claw back into the playoffs. That's just not the same situation as easing your 3rd stringer in during December.
I'd like to see Husso get a taste of the NHL. But those other goalies weren't gifted chances in a way our organization refuses to do with Husso. They seized opportunities that were created by injury/backup implosion. Like all 3 of those guys, Husso is our 3rd string (and was last year too). If a similar opportunity is created, Husso will get his shot. It's a bit frustrating that it hasn't happened yet, but there isn't much we could do. Not bringing in Hutton/Johnson and throwing Husso into an uncontested backup role would have been a complete departure from how the Bolts/Pens/Preds handled their goalie prospects. It's revisionist history to just look at NHL games played at 21 years old and not the context of how they got those games.
"Reality," as you admit, is that these are young goaltenders who were given a real chance in the NHL at 21 years of age and older. You can parse the circumstances however you wish (and you do so, injecting a fair bit of speculation and conjecture along the way), but the fact is that their organizations seemed committed to giving them a real look early in their careers.
Let's talk about the Blues's decision to sign Chad Johnson: Do you think it was wise? Is he better equipped to be the backup than Husso? Specifically, what did he do in the preseason to show that he is a better goaltender than Husso? Keep in mind that Johnson has played for 7 teams in 8 years...he's a journeyman through and through. Also, keep in mind that Allen is coming off an absolute nightmare of a season wherein he posted only .432 quality start percentage and a -10.34 goals saved above replacement.
Also, what should be our plans for the future? Should our decision on Husso be at least partially influenced by the state of our current "starter?"
Finally, is it your opinion that the AHL tells you more about a goalie's skill set or would the NHL tell you more? What is the best development path for an elite prospect goalie?