Prospect Info: Ville Husso (2014 Draft - 94 Overall)

[TheGoldenGod]

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Allen is good to go, sounds like. Probably Johnson gets the next start, then back to normal.

 

[Brian39]

It is high time for Husso to play. I think the Blues as an organization wait too long to expose a top goalie prospect such as Husso to the NHL.

Many other organizations seem to take a different approach (Vasy, Soros, Murray, etc.), get them into the NHL at a younger age, and have a better history developing those goalies than the Blues.

All 3 of those guys got their first crack at the NHL due to injuries. In each of those situations, those goalies were 3rd on the depth chart and remained in the AHL until an injury to one of the team's 2 NHL goalies forced them into NHL action. All 3 took their opportunity and ran with it, earning more call ups and starts as they demonstrated that they were better than the NHL backup. But the developmental plan/approach wasn't to get them up to the NHL early.

 

[Ranksu]

​

 

[carter333167]

All 3 of those guys got their first crack at the NHL due to injuries. In each of those situations, those goalies were 3rd on the depth chart and remained in the AHL until an injury to one of the team's 2 NHL goalies forced them into NHL action. All 3 took their opportunity and ran with it, earning more call ups and starts as they demonstrated that they were better than the NHL backup. But the developmental plan/approach wasn't to get them up to the NHL early.

I disagree.

Vasi's been playing in the NHL for three years, since age 20. Similar story for Saraos. It is clear that the Preds and Lightning were intentionally exposing them to the NHL at a young age (20-21). Husso is essentially precisely the same level of prospect as Saros...also not far off of Vasi. I'm OK with last year but the signing of Johnson this year is overtly conservative and particularly unwise for an organization that may well need a #1 goaltender asap.

 

[mk80]

I disagree.

Vasi's been playing in the NHL for three years, since age 20. Similar story for Saraos. It is clear that the Preds and Lightning were intentionally exposing them to the NHL at a young age (20-21). Husso is essentially precisely the same level of prospect as Saros...also not far off of Vasi. I'm OK with last year but the signing of Johnson this year is overtly conservative and particularly unwise for an organization that may well need a #1 goaltender asap.

In the case of the Lightning it does say a lot they were willing to move on from Bishop to give Vasilevsky full reign of the net.

 

[ezcreepin]

I disagree.

Vasi's been playing in the NHL for three years, since age 20. Similar story for Saraos. It is clear that the Preds and Lightning were intentionally exposing them to the NHL at a young age (20-21). Husso is essentially precisely the same level of prospect as Saros...also not far off of Vasi. I'm OK with last year but the signing of Johnson this year is overtly conservative and particularly unwise for an organization that may well need a #1 goaltender asap.

The problem with this kind of logic I think is that we are comparing Husso to Saros and Vasi, but also forgetting that these teams prior had legitimate #1 goalies who would be getting you 60-70 games. This allowed for a better opportunity for goalies like Vasi and Saros to get experience, but also not have to throw them into the fire (barring an injury) because you knew what you had in your #1. Vasi being a 1st round pick justified the Bolts to move on from Bishop, especially after he was injured and Vasi had to take the brunt work. Plus, Yzerman had to deal with the salary cap and what Bishop was wanting as a starter, so it made sense to give Vasi the starting roll. Saros is obviously the heir apparent, and he's going to get some good looks this year just based on Rinne's age. But again, Rinne has been a #1 goalie for years now, and there was never really a reason to bring in a rookie goalie to learn under him until just a few years ago.

Our glaring problem is we continue to rotate goalies and gave Allen a contract when most of thought he had more to prove. Add to that the struggles he has had since getting this contract, and you have a not so good situation with having Husso "learn" under Allen. It's all bad really, but there's not a whole lot you can do. Are you confident in Husso at this point, after one year in NA? Are you confident in this team to play great in front of him if you give him the reigns? Though I don't wish any bad on Allen, I had hoped he would be out some time to get a glimpse of Husso in the NHL.

 

[TruBlu]

The problem with this kind of logic I think is that we are comparing Husso to Saros and Vasi, but also forgetting that these teams prior had legitimate #1 goalies who would be getting you 60-70 games. This allowed for a better opportunity for goalies like Vasi and Saros to get experience, but also not have to throw them into the fire (barring an injury) because you knew what you had in your #1. Vasi being a 1st round pick justified the Bolts to move on from Bishop, especially after he was injured and Vasi had to take the brunt work. Plus, Yzerman had to deal with the salary cap and what Bishop was wanting as a starter, so it made sense to give Vasi the starting roll. Saros is obviously the heir apparent, and he's going to get some good looks this year just based on Rinne's age. But again, Rinne has been a #1 goalie for years now, and there was never really a reason to bring in a rookie goalie to learn under him until just a few years ago.

Our glaring problem is we continue to rotate goalies and gave Allen a contract when most of thought he had more to prove. Add to that the struggles he has had since getting this contract, and you have a not so good situation with having Husso "learn" under Allen. It's all bad really, but there's not a whole lot you can do. Are you confident in Husso at this point, after one year in NA? Are you confident in this team to play great in front of him if you give him the reigns? Though I don't wish any bad on Allen, I had hoped he would be out some time to get a glimpse of Husso in the NHL.

Those are all good good observations and questions.

 

[Multigrain]

Are the Blues looking at Martinexz and Jordie Benn seem kind of old

 

[carter333167]

The problem with this kind of logic I think is that we are comparing Husso to Saros and Vasi, but also forgetting that these teams prior had legitimate #1 goalies who would be getting you 60-70 games. This allowed for a better opportunity for goalies like Vasi and Saros to get experience, but also not have to throw them into the fire (barring an injury) because you knew what you had in your #1. Vasi being a 1st round pick justified the Bolts to move on from Bishop, especially after he was injured and Vasi had to take the brunt work. Plus, Yzerman had to deal with the salary cap and what Bishop was wanting as a starter, so it made sense to give Vasi the starting roll. Saros is obviously the heir apparent, and he's going to get some good looks this year just based on Rinne's age. But again, Rinne has been a #1 goalie for years now, and there was never really a reason to bring in a rookie goalie to learn under him until just a few years ago.

Our glaring problem is we continue to rotate goalies and gave Allen a contract when most of thought he had more to prove. Add to that the struggles he has had since getting this contract, and you have a not so good situation with having Husso "learn" under Allen. It's all bad really, but there's not a whole lot you can do. Are you confident in Husso at this point, after one year in NA? Are you confident in this team to play great in front of him if you give him the reigns? Though I don't wish any bad on Allen, I had hoped he would be out some time to get a glimpse of Husso in the NHL.

Saros is essentially the exact equivalent of Husso. Both were the top rated European goalie at the draft, similar high level prospects and very close in age. Saros played 21 and 26 games (as a 20-22 year old) in the past two seasons.

What possible argument can there be for not starting to get Husso NHL time at this point? We are late to the party and we need to see what we have in him.

Again, my position is that you might give the Blues the benefit of the doubt about last year, BUT that not planning for Husso to get back-up time this year was a mistake indicative of an organization that has a poor history developing goalies.

Even for goalies who show the ability to develop into a #1...such as Vasi....there is a pretty significant ramp-up period and learning curve of time playing in the NHL (Vasi wasn't Vasi when he first started playing in the NHL..he was good but not great...now he is great). We are needlessly delaying that process when we can't afford to delay that process.

As for the argument that Allen isn't good enough to even provide some shelter for a learning goaltender, my position is that, if we have that little confidence in him, we should have cut bait a while ago. It's simply an unacceptable position for a club that has been trading a bunch of its #1 picks to open its window this year and in the next few years.

In any case, I think it's fair to question the Blues' ability and practices in developing goaltenders at this point.

 

[Ranksu]

We did miss opportunity in last season to see how Husso would perform in NHL level. He was performing top notch at AHL and up NHL Allen was shakey and team lost games 'cus of him.

Yet again we come same thing. Vets vs. prospects. Yeo just doesn't want to give opportunity for kids when they have proved they could be ready.

This goes with players too, look how well Tampa and Preds have develope their players too, give kids change to play big icetime etc.

Generally just our franchises mentality is old vision. Vets vs. kids.

I hope in future our new coaches are currently knowing nowadays hockey and understand when give opportunity and be realistic without how many years you have under your belt hockey games at NHL vs. kid who has only play the game in console.

If our management fails to update and adjust from old hockey mindset to current hockey, we truly have long period of time before we can see the Cup in Blues.

I hate we lose all the prime years of our best players just for we can't find the right vision to our franchise.

 

[carter333167]

We did miss opportunity in last season to see how Husso would perform in NHL level. He was performing top notch at AHL and up NHL Allen was shakey and team lost games 'cus of him.

Yet again we come same thing. Vets vs. prospects. Yeo just doesn't want to give opportunity for kids when they have proved they could be ready.

This goes with players too, look how well Tampa and Preds have develope their players too, give kids change to play big icetime etc.

Generally just our franchises mentality is old vision. Vets vs. kids.

I hope in future our new coaches are currently knowing nowadays hockey and understand when give opportunity and be realistic without how many years you have under your belt hockey games at NHL vs. kid who has only play the game in console.

If our management fails to update and adjust from old hockey mindset to current hockey, we truly have long period of time before we can see the Cup in Blues.

I hate we lose all the prime years of our best players just for we can't find the right vision to our franchise.

It's on DA every bit as much as it is Yeo. He signed Chad Johnson when every sign pointed to finally getting Husso some games in the NHL.

 

[Majorityof1]

It's on DA every bit as much as it is Yeo. He signed Chad Johnson when every sign pointed to finally getting Husso some games in the NHL.

We can still get him some games. But having him ride the pine to start in 9 out of the 10 games like Johnson would be terrible for Husso's development. Not to mention forcing Husso to come in relief in 2 games. Husso needs to play 40+ games this year. He was not going to do that full-time on an NHL roster. So signing a low-cost back-up (not necessarily Johnson) was a good move.

 

[carter333167]

We can still get him some games. But having him ride the pine to start in 9 out of the 10 games like Johnson would be terrible for Husso's development. Not to mention forcing Husso to come in relief in 2 games. Husso needs to play 40+ games this year. He was not going to do that full-time on an NHL roster. So signing a low-cost back-up (not necessarily Johnson) was a good move.

You don’t think running the splits ala Tampa bay or Nashville would be good? Husso getting even 20-25 starts this year, plus all the practice time against our nhl squad, would not have been bad for his development. That is just the point. It would have been good for his development.

There was a recent interview with an nhl goalie coach who said that nhl experience is the best development available. Husso is beyond the age where he should be getting some of that experience.

 

[Evocable Manager]

I find it fascinating at how eager the management was with Jake and maybe they think their eagerness to give him the job is why he isn't succeeding?

Cause I'm with Carter, Husso should be playing.

But I also wouldn't worry much about it. So long as the team needs 4 goals just to have a chance at winning, Husso will eventually get a chance to play.

 

[Brian39]

I disagree.

Vasi's been playing in the NHL for three years, since age 20. Similar story for Saraos. It is clear that the Preds and Lightning were intentionally exposing them to the NHL at a young age (20-21). Husso is essentially precisely the same level of prospect as Saros...also not far off of Vasi. I'm OK with last year but the signing of Johnson this year is overtly conservative and particularly unwise for an organization that may well need a #1 goaltender asap.

Neat. Reality isn't on your side.

Vasi was first called up (as a 20 year old) when Ben Bishop left the game with an injury on December 15, 2014. Nabakov was the backup and he was playing pretty mediocre. He relieved Bishop on 12/15, took the L and the Lightning decided to start Vasi the next night since it was a back to back and Nabokov had been an underwhelming backup over 10 weeks. Vasi allowed 1 goal on 24 shots. Nabokov got the next start, had another bad game and Vasi started the next game (which was another back-to-back) and took a loss in a game in which he stopped 45 of 47. He played two more games and was then returned to the AHL once Bishop was healthy. About a month later the team waived Nabokov and brought up Vasi to be the backup.

Saros played his first NHL game at 20 due to an injury to Carter Hutton. He was called up and played the tail end of a back to back and then didn't play another NHL game that year. Next season, he initially lost the backup job to Marek Mazanek (a 25 year old Preds prospect in a similar situation to Binnington). Mazanek wasn't good in his limited NHL time while Saros was playing lights out in the AHL. Reports were that the plan was to keep Saros in the AHL in 2016/17, but Mazanek was hot garbage (.839 SV% through 4 games) and Saros took the backup job from him in mid-December. The plan was not to ease Saros into the NHL at 21. Plan A was to keep him in the AHL, but piss poor play from an older goalie prospect gave him an unexpected opportunity (which he thrived in).

Matt Murray got his shot in 2016 when Fleury suffered a concussion. He played 4 games and was returned to the AHL when Flower returned. He was recalled a couple months later when the Pens gave up on Zatkoff and then got a huge opportunity when Fleury suffered another concussion in April. He turned 22 during the playoffs that year.

None of those examples had the team giving the 20-21 year old goalie the backup job. They got their chances when a starter went down or the backup imploded. The spring of last year is the only significant injury to a goalie that could have given Husso that chance. In that stretch, Allen went 8-2-0 with a .926 while we were in must-win mode trying to claw back into the playoffs. That's just not the same situation as easing your 3rd stringer in during December.

I'd like to see Husso get a taste of the NHL. But those other goalies weren't gifted chances in a way our organization refuses to do with Husso. They seized opportunities that were created by injury/backup implosion. Like all 3 of those guys, Husso is our 3rd string (and was last year too). If a similar opportunity is created, Husso will get his shot. It's a bit frustrating that it hasn't happened yet, but there isn't much we could do. Not bringing in Hutton/Johnson and throwing Husso into an uncontested backup role would have been a complete departure from how the Bolts/Pens/Preds handled their goalie prospects. It's revisionist history to just look at NHL games played at 21 years old and not the context of how they got those games.

 

[Brian39]

We can still get him some games. But having him ride the pine to start in 9 out of the 10 games like Johnson would be terrible for Husso's development. Not to mention forcing Husso to come in relief in 2 games. Husso needs to play 40+ games this year. He was not going to do that full-time on an NHL roster. So signing a low-cost back-up (not necessarily Johnson) was a good move.

If he doesn't hit 50, he needs to be in the very upper end of 40 starts. Ideally for me, I'd like to see 35-45 AHL starts with 5-15 NHL starts (unless he shines in his limited NHL work and forces Johnson to become the odd man out).

 

[Brian39]

I find it fascinating at how eager the management was with Jake and maybe they think their eagerness to give him the job is why he isn't succeeding?

Cause I'm with Carter, Husso should be playing.

But I also wouldn't worry much about it. So long as the team needs 4 goals just to have a chance at winning, Husso will eventually get a chance to play.

I think it's worth pointing out that Allen played his very first NHL games at 22 when he was called up due to an injury to Halak. He played 15 games in the lockout shortened season because Halak kept suffering nagging injuries and Brian Elliott briefly forgot how to play the position (remember that .849 SV% through the 1st month of the year before Allen was called up?). What people seem to forget is that Allen then spent the entire next season in the AHL as a 23 year old and wasn't given the backup/1B job until he was 24 and the team had moved on from Halak and Miller.

I don't get this narrative that the team was too eager to hand Jake Allen an NHL job at 24 but is unfarily stalling out Husso's development by not giving him an NHL job at 23.

 

[Dbrownss]

While I've lost the last little bit of hope I have in Allen, I dont get the "let Husso play" thing. He's not exactly lighting up the AHL this year. Could be because teams have a book on him now. Theres been a few games where the other team scored a few goals so quick that the score jumped by 2 via Twitter....

People were clamoring to get Allen in and he was the guy. Just feels were doing this all over again with Husso.

 

[Grimlore]

I don't get this narrative that the team was too eager to hand Jake Allen an NHL job but is unfarily stalling out Husso's development by not giving him an NHL job at 23.

Its called selective memory. People always blast management because they don't make the right decisions with our goaltending.

 

[Dbrownss]

Are the Blues looking at Martinexz and Jordie Benn seem kind of old

What now?

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

What now?

Say what now?

 

[carter333167]

Neat. Reality isn't on your side.

Vasi was first called up (as a 20 year old) when Ben Bishop left the game with an injury on December 15, 2014. Nabakov was the backup and he was playing pretty mediocre. He relieved Bishop on 12/15, took the L and the Lightning decided to start Vasi the next night since it was a back to back and Nabokov had been an underwhelming backup over 10 weeks. Vasi allowed 1 goal on 24 shots. Nabokov got the next start, had another bad game and Vasi started the next game (which was another back-to-back) and took a loss in a game in which he stopped 45 of 47. He played two more games and was then returned to the AHL once Bishop was healthy. About a month later the team waived Nabokov and brought up Vasi to be the backup.

Saros played his first NHL game at 20 due to an injury to Carter Hutton. He was called up and played the tail end of a back to back and then didn't play another NHL game that year. Next season, he initially lost the backup job to Marek Mazanek (a 25 year old Preds prospect in a similar situation to Binnington). Mazanek wasn't good in his limited NHL time while Saros was playing lights out in the AHL. Reports were that the plan was to keep Saros in the AHL in 2016/17, but Mazanek was hot garbage (.839 SV% through 4 games) and Saros took the backup job from him in mid-December. The plan was not to ease Saros into the NHL at 21. Plan A was to keep him in the AHL, but piss poor play from an older goalie prospect gave him an unexpected opportunity (which he thrived in).

Matt Murray got his shot in 2016 when Fleury suffered a concussion. He played 4 games and was returned to the AHL when Flower returned. He was recalled a couple months later when the Pens gave up on Zatkoff and then got a huge opportunity when Fleury suffered another concussion in April. He turned 22 during the playoffs that year.

None of those examples had the team giving the 20-21 year old goalie the backup job. They got their chances when a starter went down or the backup imploded. The spring of last year is the only significant injury to a goalie that could have given Husso that chance. In that stretch, Allen went 8-2-0 with a .926 while we were in must-win mode trying to claw back into the playoffs. That's just not the same situation as easing your 3rd stringer in during December.

I'd like to see Husso get a taste of the NHL. But those other goalies weren't gifted chances in a way our organization refuses to do with Husso. They seized opportunities that were created by injury/backup implosion. Like all 3 of those guys, Husso is our 3rd string (and was last year too). If a similar opportunity is created, Husso will get his shot. It's a bit frustrating that it hasn't happened yet, but there isn't much we could do. Not bringing in Hutton/Johnson and throwing Husso into an uncontested backup role would have been a complete departure from how the Bolts/Pens/Preds handled their goalie prospects. It's revisionist history to just look at NHL games played at 21 years old and not the context of how they got those games.

"Reality," as you admit, is that these are young goaltenders who were given a real chance in the NHL at 21 years of age and older. You can parse the circumstances however you wish (and you do so, injecting a fair bit of speculation and conjecture along the way), but the fact is that their organizations seemed committed to giving them a real look early in their careers.

Let's talk about the Blues's decision to sign Chad Johnson: Do you think it was wise? Is he better equipped to be the backup than Husso? Specifically, what did he do in the preseason to show that he is a better goaltender than Husso? Keep in mind that Johnson has played for 7 teams in 8 years...he's a journeyman through and through. Also, keep in mind that Allen is coming off an absolute nightmare of a season wherein he posted only .432 quality start percentage and a -10.34 goals saved above replacement.

Also, what should be our plans for the future? Should our decision on Husso be at least partially influenced by the state of our current "starter?"

Finally, is it your opinion that the AHL tells you more about a goalie's skill set or would the NHL tell you more? What is the best development path for an elite prospect goalie?

 

[Cotton McKnight]

Sucks we don't get to see some Husso tonight. But, it's great that we have ALJO in the nets for the end of YEO.

 

[Brian39]

"Reality," as you admit, is that these are young goaltenders who were given a real chance in the NHL at 21 years of age and older. You can parse the circumstances however you wish (and you do so, injecting a fair bit of speculation and conjecture along the way), but the fact is that their organizations seemed committed to giving them a real look early in their careers.

Let's talk about the Blues's decision to sign Chad Johnson: Do you think it was wise? Is he better equipped to be the backup than Husso? Specifically, what did he do in the preseason to show that he is a better goaltender than Husso? Keep in mind that Johnson has played for 7 teams in 8 years...he's a journeyman through and through. Also, keep in mind that Allen is coming off an absolute nightmare of a season wherein he posted only .432 quality start percentage and a -10.34 goals saved above replacement.

Also, what should be our plans for the future? Should our decision on Husso be at least partially influenced by the state of our current "starter?"

Finally, is it your opinion that the AHL tells you more about a goalie's skill set or would the NHL tell you more? What is the best development path for an elite prospect goalie?

In all 3 cases the goalies were assigned to the AHL and stayed there until management's hand was forced to call up their AHL guy. That's not speculation or conjecture. That is objectively what happened. That's the same path the Blues have taken with Husso. The difference is that we haven't seen a multi-week injury to our starter in the first half of the season. We haven't had a backup who couldn't stop a puck through November. Yet. We appear to be going that way right now. Nothing about any of the 3 situations indicates that the organizations were committed to giving them a real look until after unexpected circumstances gave them an NHL preview to base that decision on.

I'm 100% in favor of the Blues decision to bring in a veteran backup. I don't trust Allen to get 60+ starts and I don't fully trust him to get 50 at the level we need. I don't know that Johnson was the correct guy to target, but I absolutely don't want Husso up here all season, being limited to 20ish starts throughout the year and getting those starts with the pressure of needing to deliver 12+ wins to what should be a team with 100+ point aspirations. Especially at the cost of him getting 40+ starts. Husso needs starts this year. Husso may very well be capable of being a better NHL backup than Johnson right now. But backing up full time instead of getting 40+ starts is not the best thing for his development. He has never played more than 41 games in a season and without another body (like Johnson) we wouldn't have the ability to shuttle him back and forth between the NHL and AHL to pad his start totals. We didn't have another waiver-exempt goalie in the system who could shuttle up and down with Husso, so we had to sign someone to ensure that Husso got 40+ starts.

I want to see Husso given an NHL opportunity this year, but it should be in spot start situations and not as a full time backup that can't shuttle back and forth. Given Husso's current numbers in the AHL and the state of our NHL D structure through the first 10 games, we legitimately could have destroyed Husso's confidence by now if he was the full-time backup here.

I'm of the mindset that at 23 we can't simply wait for an injury like we have been for the last 2 years. This season should be the season where he is spot started in the NHL over Chad Johnson occasionally. I don't think we had to do that at 22 or 21 and that absolutely wasn't what any of the 3 teams you mentioned did until unexpected circumstances accelerated their plans. I thought that going into the year and the performance of our goaltenders through 10 games makes it easy to justify doing it this season.

If I were coach/GM, my pre-season plan would have been to split starts roughly as follows:

Allen: 45-55
Johnson: 15-25
Husso: 5-20

Injuries have prevented us from having an "flexible" roster spot to shuttle Husso up and down so far, but I would have gotten Johnson 3 starts by now to see more of what we have in him. I'd be getting Husso up here for a spot start the instant we can. But Yeo seems hell bent on starting Allen 65-70 times for some insane reason, so I think Husso avenue for starts is likely going to based on whether Johnson keeps playing like he has been (as well as Husso himself showing some good starts).

I don't like how the Blues' net is currently being handled. I want to see our 23 year old prospect in the NHL sooner than later. But I vehemently disagree that we were mishandling him last year or the year before and that any of the teams you pointed to are examples of that. We had the exact same number of goalies ahead of Husso on the depth chart as the Bolts/Preds/Pens had in front of their prospects. There was no difference in commitment until circumstances forced those teams hands and we haven't had those same circumstances.