Ville de Québec Part II

[saskganesh]

Voted 95%. I'm thinking of the lack of good news (or healthy rumours) out of Glendale.

 

[dronald]

The question is not if its when quebec gets their team back.

The bigger question is when will canadian nhl fans appetite be satiated. After quebec and possibly hamilton/GTA the chances of nhl in any other city in canada falls off a cliff. population alone is perhaps the largest hinderance.

So when will canadians be satisfied?

Just QC then SO, then all of the passion for more Canadian teams will die down. Sure there will be discussions of Halifax, Ssk, NB etc, but the elitism will go.

 

[PanthersHockey1]

Just QC then SO, then all of the passion for more Canadian teams will die down. Sure there will be discussions of Halifax, Ssk, NB etc, but the elitism will go.

i guess the hypothetical question becomes does the satisfaction of two new teams in QC and SO diminish if it were to occur under league expansion to 32 teams.


Regardless of what fans say i did sense a large amount of satisfaction of the jets return solely based on the fact that a sunbelt team was moving at the expense of the new jets.

 

[dronald]

i guess the hypothetical question becomes does the satisfaction of two new teams in QC and SO diminish if it were to occur under league expansion to 32 teams.


Regardless of what fans say i did sense a large amount of satisfaction of the jets return solely based on the fact that a sunbelt team was moving at the expense of the new jets.

I don't think it would matter how it happens. Canadians have no problem with the South, just think of it this way; it seems so unfair that I live in a Hockey mad city but can't buy Season tickets. Even if the Leaf prices were affordable (i would totally buy them if they were) I would have to drive an hour there and back 40 times. And yet if you're a resident in Sunrise or Florida, Glendale, etc, you have the opportunity to see your team for dirt cheap prices within driving distance and don't nearly appreciate it as much as we would.

 

[y2kcanucks]

As a Canadian, once I see franchises in QC and SO I would be advocating putting franchises in Seattle, Portland, Connecticut, and Milwaukee.

 

[Undertakerqc]

Canadians will be happy when Quebec , Southern ontario get their teams.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Canadians will be happy when Quebec , Southern ontario get their teams.

Nah, then there'll be pushes for a third team in southern Ontario (GTA if Hamilton gets a team, and Hamilton if the GTA gets a team) and a team out in Saskatoon.

MAKE IT 11!

And if that's done, people will push for Halifax.

MAKE IT 12!

And then there'll be talk about second teams in Montreal and/or Vancouver.

MAKE IT 14!

In other words, there'll always be a push for more teams in Canada.

 

[dronald]

Nah, then there'll be pushes for a third team in southern Ontario (GTA if Hamilton gets a team, and Hamilton if the GTA gets a team) and a team out in Saskatoon.

MAKE IT 11!

And if that's done, people will push for Halifax.

MAKE IT 12!

And then there'll be talk about second teams in Montreal and/or Vancouver.

MAKE IT 14!

In other words, there'll always be a push for more teams in Canada.

I can see suggestions, but it won't be as serious as it is now. If Toronto gets a 2nd all hope is gone for Hamilton, QC deserves a team no doubt.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I can see suggestions, but it won't be as serious as it is now. If Toronto gets a 2nd all hope is gone for Hamilton, QC deserves a team no doubt.

Very true, which is one of the reasons why I laughed heartily when there were suggestions about the Yotes moving up to Hamilton for a few years before moving to Markham, completely ignoring the fact that a second team in the GTA would all but kill their already slim chances of landing an NHL team any time soon (and vice versa, for that matter).

But I'd bet dollars to donuts that there certainly would be increased calls for other Canadian markets getting teams if both Quebec City and Hamilton/GTA get teams of their own. Maybe not second teams in Montreal and Vancouver, but definitely see for pushes for Saskatoon and Halifax to get teams.

Realistic pushes, though? Not on your life, but that's another point altogether.

That being said, I see the NHL maxing out in Canada at 8 anyway with Quebec City, as blocking moves by the Leafs and Buffalo will put humongous barriers against teams in the GTA or Hamilton even if they could easily support another team or two (which I think they can).

 

[matCH penalty]

In other words, there'll always be a push for more teams in Canada.

Sure, by the shortsighted, selfish, and less than competent. After TOR2/HAM and QC, there's no other place in Canada to put a team. No one is going to take Saskatoon and Halifax seriously. That doesn't mean people will suddenly be enthusiastic about the poor state of some franchises, though. Even adding two strong markets (and removing one or more weak ones), which should go far to shore up the tenuous fiscal situation of the league, probably won't make everything perfect. Because apart from the chauvinists, the goal isn't teams in Canada, it's a stable NHL that operates like a major league. It isn't good for anyone who enjoys watching the best hockey in the world for there to be so many potential disasters going on in the league which threaten its continued smooth operation.

What I'm curious about is the Canadian/hockey media's reaction to all this when/if the Phoenix and Quebec situations are settled. Depending on how addicted to the ownership soap operas certain demographics have become, we may or may not see the same level of media coverage. Or level of venom, as some would argue.

 

[knorthern knight]

90-to-99% with the only possible showstopper being a lost season due to a lockout.

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

There are realistically three suitable markets remaining in Canada:

(1) Quebec City
(2) Toronto/Markham/GTA
(3) Hamilton

However, due to the influence of the Leafs, I doubt (2) or (3) will happen for a while, if ever. I cannot imagine both happening, even though I think they could both be supported.

 

[Guardian17]

Jets owner Mark Chipman had a town hall meeting in Winnipeg today and was asked about Quebec.

Quebec City comments at about 16min 40sec.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/sports/hockey/jets/Chipman-to-speak-at-News-Cafe-137187123.html


"I'd love to see another team in Canada."

 

[PanthersHockey1]

Sure, by the shortsighted, selfish, and less than competent. After TOR2/HAM and QC, there's no other place in Canada to put a team. No one is going to take Saskatoon and Halifax seriously. That doesn't mean people will suddenly be enthusiastic about the poor state of some franchises, though. Even adding two strong markets (and removing one or more weak ones), which should go far to shore up the tenuous fiscal situation of the league, probably won't make everything perfect. Because apart from the chauvinists, the goal isn't teams in Canada, it's a stable NHL that operates like a major league. It isn't good for anyone who enjoys watching the best hockey in the world for there to be so many potential disasters going on in the league which threaten its continued smooth operation.

What I'm curious about is the Canadian/hockey media's reaction to all this when/if the Phoenix and Quebec situations are settled. Depending on how addicted to the ownership soap operas certain demographics have become, we may or may not see the same level of media coverage. Or level of venom, as some would argue.

thats a very solid argument. It just so happens that at this point in time, canada has the most potential for nhl franchise success.

In the case of the panthers moving forward, if the organization can start putting together a winning team, will bandwagon fans turn into consistent followers of the team.

This forumla should work for other sunbelt teams and has worked in Carolina, Nashville, and Tampa. If atlanta's organization was able to win consistently i would believe they could have gotten solid attendance too.

The problem with phoenix is that the team has experienced success but the organization still seems to fail at getting bandwagon/casual fans attached long term.

Im willing to bet if the panthers make the playoffs this season that the home games would be sold out easily and that success should translate over into following season.

 

[blues10]

thats a very solid argument. It just so happens that at this point in time, canada has the most potential for nhl franchise success.

In the case of the panthers moving forward, if the organization can start putting together a winning team, will bandwagon fans turn into consistent followers of the team.

This forumla should work for other sunbelt teams and has worked in Carolina, Nashville, and Tampa. If atlanta's organization was able to win consistently i would believe they could have gotten solid attendance too.

The problem with phoenix is that the team has experienced success but the organization still seems to fail at getting bandwagon/casual fans attached long term.

Im willing to bet if the panthers make the playoffs this season that the home games would be sold out easily and that success should translate over into following season.

A winning team can never be guaranteed. Look at the Sabres struggles thus far this season.

Nashville, Carolina and Tampa may appear to have turned the corner but in a primarily gate driven league their ticket prices are too low to make any profits. If these franchises can sustain losses in perpetuity then I guess it is a business success.

Attendance does not equal franchise success. Paid attendance at ticket prices which can sustain the business equals success.

Look no further than what Bettman said when TNSE purchased the Thrashers. In regards to the MTSC if this place isn't sold out every night this is not going to work out very well. That is 15 000 seats near the top of the NHL average ticket prices. Obviously this is the benchmark for success.

It will be very exciting to see Quebec back in the NHL.

from Forbes

Owner Peter Karmanos hired Allen & Co. to help him sell half the team over a year ago. Karmanos finally sold $22 million in equity to 10 minority investors at the start of the 2011-12 season. Karmanos is looking to sell another $20 million worth over the next 12 months.The Hurricanes have a lot of debt and Karmanos has been looking for cash ever since his partner in the team, Thomas Thewes, died three years ago.

http://www.forbes.com/teams/carolina-hurricanes/

The Lightning reached the Eastern Conference finals (its first playoff appearance in four years) last year, but still lost money thanks to rock bottom ticket prices.

http://www.forbes.com/teams/tampa-bay-lightning/

The Predators are losing money and trying to find investors to pump in about $25 million to shore up the team's finances. In early 2011 the team secured a $75 million credit facility led by Regions Bank to replace the $75 million loan from CIT Group used to finance the purchase of the team. The team has plans to renovate 15-year old Bridgestone Arena by adding a Fan Zone on the upper concourse and upgrading 72 suites. The Predators have a lot of debt and have been in the bottom-third of the league in attendance for six consecutive seasons.

http://www.forbes.com/teams/nashville-predators/

 

[Jesus Christ Horburn]

Chipman says he'd love to see the Coyotes move to Quebec City.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/breakingnews/Chipman-to-speak-at-News-Cafe-137187123.html

(Quebec City talk starts at about 15:00)

He fields quite a few questions about the possibility of the league moving a team to Quebec City.

Edit: Guardian beat me to it.

 

[Ugmo]

Chipman says he'd love to see the Coyotes move to Quebec City.

Is it normal that the owners appear to have no idea what the league's plans are for Phoenix?

And is it normal that no one appears to know Quebec's new arena is a done deal? Or is he indeed correct that done deal or not, the league won't green-light Quebec until shovels actually hit the ground?

 

[Coramoor]

A winning team can never be guaranteed. Look at the Sabres struggles thus far this season.

Nashville, Carolina and Tampa may appear to have turned the corner but in a primarily gate driven league their ticket prices are too low to make any profits. If these franchises can sustain losses in perpetuity then I guess it is a business success.

Attendance does not equal franchise success. Paid attendance at ticket prices which can sustain the business equals success.

Look no further than what Bettman said when TNSE purchased the Thrashers. In regards to the MTSC if this place isn't sold out every night this is not going to work out very well. That is 15 000 seats near the top of the NHL average ticket prices. Obviously this is the benchmark for success.

It will be very exciting to see Quebec back in the NHL.

from Forbes



http://www.forbes.com/teams/carolina-hurricanes/



http://www.forbes.com/teams/tampa-bay-lightning/



http://www.forbes.com/teams/nashville-predators/

Tampa Bay sold double the season tickets at okay prices this year due to that run, you have to look further into it than just 1 season, Nashville has it's own bucket of worms, they need to pitch out some money. Carolina is still fine, they're growing hockey in the region, and yea they need cash but that's why financing routes such as selling equity exists

 

[Kebekoi]

"The Colisée will not be ready until at least the 2014-2015 season"
Mayor Labeaume.

 

[Matrix78]

And is it normal that no one appears to know Quebec's new arena is a done deal? Or is he indeed correct that done deal or not, the league won't green-light Quebec until shovels actually hit the ground?

It's done deal, but if you ask someone outside of Quebec, how do you expect him to know ? For people living in quebec it's a done deal, but for people outside, it won't until they see some works on the ground.

Actually 70 million is locked to the arena
20 million for plans and specifications (we should see drawing soon)
and 50 million to prepare the ground (starting this spring)

 

[Material Defender]

"The Colisée will not be ready until at least the 2014-2015 season"
Mayor Labeaume.

Correction: Mayor said it would be impossible to have the new building ready in 24 months (ready in september 2014).

So, of course he'll stick to his initial plan (400M$, building ready in september 2015). Should a team be back in Quebec City next season, Quebecor will surely put some pre$$ure to get its new building sooner! The city would then be in the driver seat: "Want it faster? You should then compensate for the extra expenses involved!"

 

[Shawa666]

Correction: Mayor said it would be impossible to have the new building ready in 24 months (ready in september 2014).

So, of course he'll stick to his initial plan (400M$, building ready in september 2015). Should a team be back in Quebec City next season, Quebecor will surely put some pre$$ure to get its new building sooner! The city would then be in the driver seat: "Want it faster? You should then compensate for the extra expenses involved!"

Frankly, I don't see how it could be ready for sep. 2014. They have to demolish Espace K, reroute piping around the future site od the arena, then They'll be able to begin work on the new building. so that's probably 3 to 6 mo. of preparation work on the grounds, maybe more, before they even begin to build the new arena.

 

[matCH penalty]

thats a very solid argument. It just so happens that at this point in time, canada has the most potential for nhl franchise success.

The NHL has to avoid being juked too far in either direction if it wants to remain relevant in the next thirty years. It has been severely hamstrung by going too far in the relocation/expansion/big new arena direction in the 1990s, and it's not unreasonable to see it being hurt by going too far in the other direction. I'm not talking about Quebec so much, or even GTA, because I firmly believe either of those markets are a license to print money. But there are potential problems if the league once again goes relocation-crazy. It's too easy and dishonest to blindly blame a few current and past markets for all the problems, and to think that any other big American market would've worked out. Seattle, Houston, Kansas City, and Las Vegas have had precisely one NHL franchise in the modern era between them, and nobody uses the Scouts as a prime example of anything except abject failure. You can't say that Seattle wouldn't have been in Atlanta's place instead, because nobody knows. It was the entire philosophy that has created this mess, not the individual markets. Slow, careful, measured moves are what the league needs, not more , which has been its trademark. Getting Quebec done ASAP, however, is a slam dunk, and will do a lot to fix things.

 

[troutman]

There are realistically three suitable markets remaining in Canada:

(1) Quebec City
(2) Toronto/Markham/GTA
(3) Hamilton

However, due to the influence of the Leafs, I doubt (2) or (3) will happen for a while, if ever. I cannot imagine both happening, even though I think they could both be supported.

A team somewhere between London and Kitchener-Waterloo (ex. Woodstock) could be successful.

 

[htpwn]

Is it normal that the owners appear to have no idea what the league's plans are for Phoenix?

And is it normal that no one appears to know Quebec's new arena is a done deal? Or is he indeed correct that done deal or not, the league won't green-light Quebec until shovels actually hit the ground?

This.

I don't see that interview as a positive. Maybe not a negative, but definitely not a positive. It was already a safe assumption that Chipman would vote for another team in Canada.

The fact that he doesn't seem to have any indication of what is going on in Phoenix, doesn't know that Quebec City has an arena that is going to be started this spring, and that nobody has come to visit him to ask to view his books like he did with Edmonton and Calgary is somewhat concerning.

It could be nothing, but it could also point to Peladeau not being front and center on the NHL's radar, as we would like to believe.

A team somewhere between London and Kitchener-Waterloo (ex. Woodstock) could be successful.

It would have to be either-or. London, or Kitchener-Waterloo, probably the latter because of the strong tech industry and proximately to Toronto. A team needs a primary, local population base to draw from. It can't be relying on fans making hour-long drives to see a hockey game, especially during winter.