Confirmed with Link: [VGK/CAR] Erik Haula for Nicolas Roy + Conditional 5th Round Pick

[GIN ANTONIC]

The bad part of the contract is not the AAV, which is very fair, but rather the NMC, particularly in light of the upcoming Expansion Draft.

Right.... well he has one. Plus he makes our team better this year and probably next year so why worry about it.

If we traded Staal, who's gonna play center for us after Aho? Suggestions of bringing in Bjugstad only make the team worse just so we can have cap space to potentially make a move in the offseason even though we have a ton of cap coming off the books over the next two years already. Like it makes no sense.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

It was a conversation about how to keep Haula. I’m definitely not as enamored with Staal as others are and don’t feel he’s as crucial to our success as others do but I don’t see any reason to trade him. It would be a bad trade. Hockeyluv wanted to ponder the possibilities of how to trade him if we could. These opposing posts that are opposing really no one are kinda funny. Also the need to put down any conversation about it is also interesting. So it goes.

13 million coming off the books this year (not including Haula's $2.75) and that is ALL non essential personnel. TVR, Edmundson, Marleau, Faulk. If the borg wants to retain Haula it will be done at a reasonable price you don't need to move Staal out to make more space. Even with raises to Svech and Dougie it will be fine.

WE CAN AND WE WILL

 

[bleedgreen]

Right.... well he has one. Plus he makes our team better this year and probably next year so why worry about it.

If we traded Staal, who's gonna play center for us after Aho? Suggestions of bringing in Bjugstad only make the team worse just so we can have cap space to potentially make a move in the offseason even though we have a ton of cap coming off the books over the next two years already. Like it makes no sense.

Haula would be second center behind Aho in the imaginary world. That was the conversation. It had nothing to do with Bjugstad. That’s just the trade Hockeyluv is musing would move the contract of Staal. The conversation is “would we pay Staal wages to another center, because it would be nice to keep Haula”. If we can keep all three......as it’s been said multiple times.....that would be ideal in all of our opinions.

 

[A Star is Burns]

If he were a UFA this year he would easily pull over $6M so yes it is a good contract.

This is what we were all screaming back when he signed the deal. He was a mil or two overpaid for the first 2-3 years, paid correctly through the middle of it, and will be underpaid for the last 2-3 years.

Thank you. I've said this for a few years. He's not overpaid at all in the sense that any number of teams would give him that contract. If they wanted to move him, the contract wouldn't have that big of an impact. I've certainly had my times that I would have been willing to move Staal, but that was mostly related to the fact that we didn't have enough offense around him and weren't spending enough to justify his role and price. That's not an issue anymore.

I certainly wouldn't say there's no chance he'll be moved. This regime will move anyone in the right circumstances. But I do think it's pretty dumb to even think about right now. Even dumber to think about the expansion draft. We aren't going to have any issues in the expansion draft. We'll lose a player and move on. One of the whole points of 8 million draft picks and prospects is to be able to absorb losing people that price themselves out (or get selected in something like the ED) or to easily be able to throw enough at prospect fetishist RF to make him leave us alone. But it'll probably just be easier to lose what we're going to lose and move on.

 

[Lempo]

I am not a great fool, so clearly I cannot choose the wine in front of you

Just bring us what you got fresh.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

I'm also thinking about the upcoming Toronto and San Jose situations in all of this. I wouldn't think about trading Staal at all if I didn't also think about the possibility of getting Nylander and/or Labanc via trade. Both teams may have to trade them to be cap-compliant next offseason, and why shouldn't the Canes be the beneficiaries? Nylander in particular has the ability to play center and could be slotted in as 2C if Staal is traded.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Thank you. I've said this for a few years. He's not overpaid at all in the sense that any number of teams would give him that contract. If they wanted to move him, the contract wouldn't have that big of an impact. I've certainly had my times that I would have been willing to move Staal, but that was mostly related to the fact that we didn't have enough offense around him and weren't spending enough to justify his role and price. That's not an issue anymore.

I certainly wouldn't say there's no chance he'll be moved. This regime will move anyone in the right circumstances. But I do think it's pretty dumb to even think about right now. Even dumber to think about the expansion draft. We aren't going to have any issues in the expansion draft. We'll lose a player and move on. One of the whole points of 8 million draft picks and prospects is to be able to absorb losing people that price themselves out (or get selected in something like the ED) or to easily be able to throw enough at prospect fetishist RF to make him leave us alone. But it'll probably just be easier to lose what we're going to lose and move on.

I don't see the NMC being that big of an issue either. We just named this guy our captain for crying out loud. The likelihood that everything goes sour with him over the next couple of years is pretty remote.

If for whatever reason we come to that point, it's not like Jordan Staal of all people is going to be blindsided by the possibility. Remember how he came here. As long as we're not trying to ditch him in Ottawa or something, it seems likely that he'd be willing to work with us.

As far as the expansion draft... I seriously doubt that they would even have considered exposing him. And I doubt Francis would have given much thought to taking him. I get the thought process but it just seems like a non-issue.

 

[bleedgreen]

I’m impressed someone thinks he could get that contract now. It’s taken six years for that contract to be even palatable, and I don’t believe for a second other teams would accept it without us either eating a good chunk of it, and/or taking back something we don’t want.

This is a good year to see what he can do with plenty of support. It’ll make an interesting conversation at the end of the year. Kinda useless now.

 

[Roboturner913]

The bad part of the contract is not the AAV, which is very fair, but rather the NMC, particularly in light of the upcoming Expansion Draft.

Expansion draft **** makes my head hurt.

Anyway I don't think Staal is indispensable or something, but until Necas or Suzuki or somebody takes a big step forward, moving him is a big "hell no" from me.

(and this is coming from somebody who's been saying for at least a year Turbo should be the #2C, FWIW)

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

I’m impressed someone thinks he could get that contract now. It’s taken six years for that contract to be even palatable, and I don’t believe for a second other teams would accept it without us either eating a good chunk of it, and/or taking back something we don’t want.

This is a good year to see what he can do with plenty of support. It’ll make an interesting conversation at the end of the year. Kinda useless now.

Uhhh... Signing Staal right now to a 4 year x 6 mil deal is a move that literally every team would do if they had the cap space. Did you see what Kevin Hayes got?

Anyway, Aho + Haula + Staal down the middle is just fine. We have the cap space to make it happen as has been mentioned a million times. Sure, if you want to come up with imaginary unicorn situations where Staal is traded and the team takes a crappy return because he has an NMC just to free up cap space that may or may not be needed then that's fine but it's fantasy land and don't we have better things to discuss?

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Expansion draft **** makes my head hurt.

Anyway I don't think Staal is indispensable or something, but until Necas or Suzuki or somebody takes a big step forward, moving him is a big "hell no" from me.

(and this is coming from somebody who's been saying for at least a year Turbo should be the #2C, FWIW)

I would not trade Staal at all next off-season if it hurts our team short-term. We are clearly in win-now mode. My thought, it bears repeating, had to do with alleviating space for big-game hunting via trade. Getting Nylander and Labanc at reduced asset cost, for example, trading Staal (for Bjugstad + assets) + McGinn + Dzingel + Martinook, and extending Haula would give us a forward core of:

Nino-Aho-Labanc
Svech-Nylander-Teravainen
Haula-Necas-Gauthier
Foegele-Wallmark-Bjugstad

That would IMO be an even more loaded rendition of our current team, and would be one of the fastest teams in the modern era.

 

[geehaad]

To me, it's not this year or next that's of concern, it's the last two years of his deal. He'll be 33 and 34 years old, so projecting 40 points for him at that point is no solid bet. Nearly everyone making $6M produces more than Staal. Will $6M buy you a .5ppg center in 2 years? My bet: hell yeah it will.

His contract isn't a *worry*, it's that it leaves the team with zero flexibility, at a very important position on the roster. If you can free yourself from it and come away with a decent return, you gotta look at it.

And no, *we* don't have better things to discuss. If you do, feel free to disappear again.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I said earlier it seemed testy today.

Now it's starting to seem like a lot of testys.

 

[Lempo]

It's getting hot in herre
So take off all your clothes
And turn your head left
And cough

 

[Roboturner913]

My father-in-law had cancer (eventually died from it, RIP) but at one point they were concerned about it spreading to his bladder and testicles so he went to a specialist that happened to be in Muncie, Indiana. The health system there being connected to Ball State University of course - you can already guess where this is going I'm sure.

He's lost on the hospital campus so he's walking around asking people where to go, sticking his head in doors, etc. He finally gets to what he thinks is the right place, goes up to the receptionist window and she's wearing a sweatshirt that says "Ball Memorial" on the front and tells her "Welp, I guess I'm in the right place, unfortunately I may be needing your services later"

 

[Unsustainable]

Staal is f***ing tank, he’s way too damn important

 

[Lempo]

Staal is ****ing tank, he’s way too damn important

Staal Panther

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Imagine how bad this Staal discussion would be if the Canes were 0-3.

I think one thing we can count on is that GMBC is going to make moves that they feel are best for the team, short and long term, fans and players feelings be damned. They basically dumped de Hann for nothing 1 year after signing him for cap flexibility and replaced him through other means.

If 2 years from now, they feel that they have better use for Staals cap space, they’ll definitely try to move him and likely won’t be worried about the return. If they feel he’s a better than they can get by spending that $6m elsewhere, they’ll keep him and move someone else.

It’s one of the reasons, imo, they are stocking up on picks and prospects. So they have more darts to develop from within and more assets they can use in “Haula” type moves.

I’m on record for saying Staal should not be moved this year, and probably next (depending on how he plays) and I also think many of us underestimate what he brings, but won’t be surprised by anything down the road.

 

[Canes]

Staal's contract is not that big of a worry to me. The last year or two of his deal could be fairly easily bought out. If we wanted to trade him today or even the next offseason, someone would bite. We might have retain a bit or take back another contract but it's not even close to a boat anchor of contract like some of the worst contracts around the league are today.

The NMC is the biggest worry.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

To me, it's not this year or next that's of concern, it's the last two years of his deal. He'll be 33 and 34 years old, so projecting 40 points for him at that point is no solid bet. Nearly everyone making $6M produces more than Staal. Will $6M buy you a .5ppg center in 2 years? My bet: hell yeah it will.

His contract isn't a *worry*, it's that it leaves the team with zero flexibility, at a very important position on the roster. If you can free yourself from it and come away with a decent return, you gotta look at it.

And no, *we* don't have better things to discuss. If you do, feel free to disappear again.

Lol ok then. Please continue on your maniacal convo to make *even more* roster shake ups and lineup moves to a team that has already had a ton of turnover on the last 18 months and has no reason to move its newly appointed captain.

What do I know? I’m just a dumb Canadian hockey fan from Toronto. Maybe I’ll pick up some nuances about the game one day.

Carry on good sirs.

 

[bleedgreen]

Lol ok then. Please continue on your maniacal convo to make *even more* roster shake ups and lineup moves to a team that has already had a ton of turnover on the last 18 months and has no reason to move its newly appointed captain.

What do I know? I’m just a dumb Canadian hockey fan from Toronto. Maybe I’ll pick up some nuances about the game one day.

Carry on good sirs.

Again, no one is even saying we want to trade Staal, or that we are looking to trade Staal, or that trading Staal especially now is a good idea. Just that it's an interesting conversation overall, possibly pertinent to down the road, and wondering what we have to pay to have three centers. Geehad is just saying well if someone would take the contract of course we would look at it - which we should look at it like everything else out there. Hockeyluv is curious if we could make the math work from pitts and wondering about the expansion draft, I just want three good centers.

Virtually no one is saying we need to trade Staal right now, or we should trade Staal right now, or we need to make more moves right now. I'm not even sure who you're talking to or who's being maniacal.

For the record, I like that you think we can afford to keep Haula. I hope that's true, or that we can afford to keep a reasonable comparable to him. I would sign Hayes before Staal in a heartbeat. I wouldn't sign Staal to a 4x6 unless I was Tampa Bay with a short window and for some reason perceived I need to slow the team down a touch and add a defensive minded center to put us over the hump - and I would have no idea who I'm cutting off that team to make the money work. I don't know who these teams are that would find 6 million of room for him.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Oooh. The “I’m a Canadian from Toronto” card has been played.

 

[GIN ANTONIC]

Oooh. The “I’m a Canadian from Toronto” card has been played.

I tried playing the ‘why are we talking about trading our captain that we just named a week ago’ card but apparently I’m just not being open minded enough

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I tried playing the ‘why are we talking about trading our captain that we just named a week ago’ card but apparently I’m just not being open minded enough

Trading Staal “ now “ wasn’t the discussion though. I mistook it myself last night in my discussion with bleed). Most of us 100 % agree that they are not trading him now, and nobody said that.

Yet you calling people silly and saying isn’t there anything better to talk about is just asking for it.

Regardless, your “I know more about hockey than you because I’m from Canada “ isn’t going over well and frankly, makes you look bad.

 

[Svechhammer]

How did the Haula trade discussion thread turn into a bitch-fest about whether or not we should trade the guy who was named Captain about 10 days ago