Confirmed with Link: [VGK/CAR] Erik Haula for Nicolas Roy + Conditional 5th Round Pick
- Thread starter Big Daddy Cane
- Start date
Ahoy there
Always in control of my stick
This is a self-imposed "either/or" when there is no reason it cannot be "both/and." I agree that we are much more about business, and that isn't a bad thing. However, I haven't seen them make decisions from the business mindset while ignoring team needs or chemistry. I think everyone from TD down understands balancing business needs with what puts the team in the best position to win. Since coming back from injury late last year, Staal has been dominant. He's had great chances this season, and like many, they found the post.
bleedgreen
Registered User
Well you're cherry picking one sentence that was about how the new regime took over the team last summer. In general I absolutely agree with you, they have been much more business and it wasn't a bad thing. The "all business" part was about last summer when they took over, and I think they made a pure business decision to show heart. Faulk and Staal in particular. I think they went through the whole roster and made their business decisions, then traded what they could and kept and made the best of the rest.
'
When they took over they wanted to make the team theirs and set the business up the way they wanted to. They did it too. To me last summer was absolutely all business.
Ahoy there
Always in control of my stick
You may very well be right; unfortunately, we probably will never know. Regarding Staal, I look at it a bit differently. Looking at the team sans Willy, we're very young and potentially void of leadership. I prefer thinking Staal was looked at as not only the best 2-way player we have, but also he's been around, is mature, and the natural person to step into the C role. As I evaluate the roster, he's critical and will be very much needed as we get into the deep part of the season and then make a run.
*edit: sorry @bleedgreen I thought I replied, lol
*edit: sorry @bleedgreen I thought I replied, lol
bleedgreen
Registered User
Well I think they're approach to this year is different to last year, especially in that they likely re-evaluated every player and his place moving forward. It would make sense, right? Staal after last year is viewed as the leader they hoped he would be going into last season. I agree he's very much part of this team regardless of how I view his effectiveness vs other peoples opinions. He's the captain, and even I think he's great in the right role.
Going into last year, or any of the years previous most people wouldnt have thought of him as mature as you would now, or that he would be such a good fit for captain. I had reservations but you can tell he's the right choice now, for this team, for this year. Presumably moving forward. How the team views him must have evolved from what they saw him as last summer as well.
- Aug 24, 2006
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TheReelChuckFletcher
Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
I sort of brought up a Jordan Staal trade as more of the final course correction from the ill-fated Final JR era of NMCs and full NTCs than as an indictment of him as a player and leader on the team. Despite what some of his detractors say, he is a very important piece to our current roster because even though we're clearly a good team, we're also the youngest team in the NHL, and with Willy on hiatus(?) and Faulk traded, Staal plays a key role at the top of our leadership hierarchy.
GIN ANTONIC
Registered User
This is silly. Staal isn't going anywhere.
1. He's the captain and a much needed veteran presence
2. He's a two-way beast on the ice and his elite defensive + physical play allows for a lot of other more creative players to flourish
3. He's got an NMC and wants to be here
JR did a lot of stupid things in the past. Giving out NTC/NMCs like candy was one of them but the org felt they needed to do it because
a) They were a budget team and giving up that leverage was one way to spend less on contracts
b) Carolina wasn't a desirable hockey market to attract UFA's but it's great place to live so again, it was a bargaining chip to give to players who liked the area
Here's the thing. The team has VERY quickly shed all of that. The team is young and talented AND successful on the ice. Players may not be flocking to come here but clearly many are very OK with having Carolina on their list of places to play (CDH, Gardiner, Dzingel). It will continue to be a work in process but the world moves fast now and old labels and reputations can be changed. 2019 is a very different place than 2009 from a social media and engagement perspective. The Canes are KILLING it so much better than really any other team out there right now. We have to keep it up but right now we're positioned for a long productive window which is something the team has never had before even going back to Hartford. If we can find some consistency then I can see this being like a Tampa/SJ/Nashville type market which would be amazing.
Trust the borg. They know what they're doing.
1. He's the captain and a much needed veteran presence
2. He's a two-way beast on the ice and his elite defensive + physical play allows for a lot of other more creative players to flourish
3. He's got an NMC and wants to be here
JR did a lot of stupid things in the past. Giving out NTC/NMCs like candy was one of them but the org felt they needed to do it because
a) They were a budget team and giving up that leverage was one way to spend less on contracts
b) Carolina wasn't a desirable hockey market to attract UFA's but it's great place to live so again, it was a bargaining chip to give to players who liked the area
Here's the thing. The team has VERY quickly shed all of that. The team is young and talented AND successful on the ice. Players may not be flocking to come here but clearly many are very OK with having Carolina on their list of places to play (CDH, Gardiner, Dzingel). It will continue to be a work in process but the world moves fast now and old labels and reputations can be changed. 2019 is a very different place than 2009 from a social media and engagement perspective. The Canes are KILLING it so much better than really any other team out there right now. We have to keep it up but right now we're positioned for a long productive window which is something the team has never had before even going back to Hartford. If we can find some consistency then I can see this being like a Tampa/SJ/Nashville type market which would be amazing.
Trust the borg. They know what they're doing.
Navin R Slavin
Fifth line center
HELL YES SAY IT AGAIN
bleedgreen
Registered User
GIN ANTONIC
Registered User
I think the bigger point to make is not that he *isn't* going anywhere, it's that he *shouldn't* be going anywhere either. There's a lot "if we were able to move him" talk going on which is silly on both fronts.
- Aug 24, 2006
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Only a goddamn fool would fail to be open to the possibility of being rid of that contract.
I'm fine with being silly, just as long as I'm not being a goddamn fool.
I'm fine with being silly, just as long as I'm not being a goddamn fool.
TheReelChuckFletcher
Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
What I'm saying, too. If Staal is willing to waive for Pittsburgh, and JR offers the last year of Bjugstad and Gudbranson's contract as well as a prospect like Samuel Poulin, do you think that the Borg would say no? I bet that they wouldn't. Think about it: not only would it free up space for Svech, but it would also free up space for Dougie, who I strongly suspect will get extended after the Expansion Draft, as well as potentially Haula or other roster improvements. On top of that, it would open up an Expansion slot, which they could either use as an 8 F/D - 1 G or a 7 F - 3 D - 1 G.
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WreckingCrew
Registered User
- Feb 4, 2015
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I'd rather keep Staal...he's much better than Bjug (who's also injured right now)...plus we'd have to figure out wtf to do with Gudbranson (not needed), just for another young prospect? Poulin is nice but we have a lot of magic bean prospects & darts already...not worth getting rid of Staal for that. Faulk made sense, someone "had" to go, his contract was expiring, extension talks failed. The BORG likes value contracts...Jordan is captain, veteran, $6M, locked in for a few more years, and a great defensive forward who can chip in 40-50 points...
AD Skinner
Registered User
I am not a great fool, so clearly I cannot choose the wine in front of you
TheReelChuckFletcher
Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
Talking about the offseason, not right now. It would be unbelievably stupid to trade Staal right now.
GIN ANTONIC
Registered User
Cap hits that are coming off the books after this season...
- TVR @ $2.3
- Marleau @ $6.25
- Edmundson @ $3.1
- Haula @ 2.75
- Faulk @ $700k
Cap hits that are coming off the books after 2020/2021...
- Dzingel @ $3.375
- McGinn @ $2.1
- Martinook @ $2.0
- Mrazek @ $3.125
- Reimer @ $3.4
- Semin @ 2.33
But you don't think we'll have money for a Svech and Dougie raise???
I get that some of those guys we will try to re-sign but a lot will be replaced by cheaper internal options as well. Canes cap situation is just fine. The bolded ones are basically dead money right now that won't be renewed in any way.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
Update: Jordan Staal has missed the team plane to Florida and will not play tonight.
Roboturner913
Registered User
- Jul 3, 2012
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Can the Staal contract even be considered a "bad" deal at this point? He's gonna score 45-50 points and play elite forward defense and be one of the best faceoff men in the league. Whatever his shortcomings may be, IMHO he's worth his price tag.
TheReelChuckFletcher
Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
I'm not just talking about Svech/Dougie/Haula. What if there's a situation next off-season where the Bruins want to extend Krug but can't because of Backes' last year? Canes could potentially get another 1st from them to eat that contract. Also, Toronto may very well be in another cap crisis next year pending what they do with Barrie and Muzzin. Nylander may become available again. What about San Jose and Kevin Labanc? There's a lot of things that the Canes can do to juice up their team even more.
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
If he were a UFA this year he would easily pull over $6M so yes it is a good contract.
This is what we were all screaming back when he signed the deal. He was a mil or two overpaid for the first 2-3 years, paid correctly through the middle of it, and will be underpaid for the last 2-3 years.
TheReelChuckFletcher
Former TheRillestPaulFenton; Harverd Alum
The bad part of the contract is not the AAV, which is very fair, but rather the NMC, particularly in light of the upcoming Expansion Draft.
GIN ANTONIC
Registered User
EXACTLY... he's not going ANYWHERE
Hey, I'm with you on having cap space to bend other teams over the barrel and show them the 50 states, but I think we're gonna be fine on cap space without having to move out someone like Staal and more importantly Staal makes us a waaaaaay better team right now, next year, and the year after.
The center market is crap and until I see otherwise we don't have the internal replacements to move him away from the heavy minutes he eats. Maybe that changes in a year of two but let's talk about it then. Right now Staal is a huge part of the team and I have no problem with spending $6mil on what he brings on and off the ice.
bleedgreen
Registered User
It was a conversation about how to keep Haula. I’m definitely not as enamored with Staal as others are and don’t feel he’s as crucial to our success as others do but I don’t see any reason to trade him. It would be a bad trade. Hockeyluv wanted to ponder the possibilities of how to trade him if we could. These opposing posts that are opposing really no one are kinda funny. Also the need to put down any conversation about it is also interesting. So it goes.
