Confirmed with Link: [VGK/CAR] Erik Haula for Nicolas Roy + Conditional 5th Round Pick

bleedgreen

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I've been saying Haula "or someone like him".

I'm not convinced in anything other than we look a lot better with another scoring center past Aho. If it's Haula and he keeps it up, great. I'm more worried about his health than his scoring pace.

And Ferland stopped scoring because after negotiations started and he came back from his first injury he was curiously never played on the first line again. Safe to assume if he played with Aho and TT as long as they were together and stayed with Aho after he probably wouldve kept scoring when he was healthy.
 

Big Daddy Cane

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I'll jump in here. $7.5 mil for Hamilton is very rosy. The next US TV will probably will cause cap inflation. Spurgeon got ~$7.5 mil 2 years in advance of that. Trouba got $8 mil. I'd estimate Hamilton at $8.5 mil or more. Svech's comparables need to be adjusted upward for the same reason. They won't be able to add any significant piece as Necas will eat up a good chunk of that available cap space a year later. Foegele and Gauthier, if they're Top 9 wingers, won't be sub-$1 mil beyond that season, if at all. Same goes for Nedeljkovic as a legit back-up/1B.
 

geehaad

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Well, if Haula doesn't produce much at even strength yet continues to produce on the PP, it will reduce that presumed $6M salary a good bit. And, for sure, a $4M 3rd-line center is right in line with what I think is ideal.

Also, I just want to make it clear that my objection to this idea of re-signing Haula while keeping Staal was in the event that Haula balled out this year and was deserving of a $6M deal...it was not a prediction that he would, indeed, earn that salary.


What amounts to 5 ELCs among the forwards are assumed to be productive enough to propel this team to the heights that we'll be shooting for in 2 years, in combination with a goaltending tandem that is paid two-thirds of what we're spending this year. They'll be trying to form a roster built for a long playoff run...I just don't see that salary structure as a blueprint for the balanced strength needed for a deep playoff run.
 

My Special Purpose

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The bad part of the contract is not the AAV, which is very fair, but rather the NMC, particularly in light of the upcoming Expansion Draft.

IMO, trading Staal -- either now or later -- is a solution in search of a problem. Even with a projected negative value in years 3/4, his contract is graded a B-minus by The Athletic. For whatever else he is, he'd probably be the toughest player in our top nine to replace, with his size and heavy game. As concerned as I am about our currently level of toughness up front, I can't even imagine our lineup without Staal.

I think he's much more of a core guy than he's given credit for on this board, and I think his NMC in advance of the expansion draft is a complete non-factor. We are going to lose *one* player and it's not going to be an All-Star, whether Staal is with us and protected or not. We've got young assets, draft picks, and lots of stuff that will satisfy Ron Francis. Yeah, maybe we give up more than we would like, but that's the price of being deep and talented. Trading Staal to minimize the damage of the expansion draft is cutting off your nose to spite your face.
 

TheReelChuckFletcher

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IMO, trading Staal -- either now or later -- is a solution in search of a problem. Even with a projected negative value in years 3/4, his contract is graded a B-minus by The Athletic. For whatever else he is, he'd probably be the toughest player in our top nine to replace, with his size and heavy game. As concerned as I am about our currently level of toughness up front, I can't even imagine our lineup without Staal.

I think he's much more of a core guy than he's given credit for on this board, and I think his NMC in advance of the expansion draft is a complete non-factor. We are going to lose *one* player and it's not going to be an All-Star, whether Staal is with us and protected or not. We've got young assets, draft picks, and lots of stuff that will satisfy Ron Francis. Yeah, maybe we give up more than we would like, but that's the price of being deep and talented. Trading Staal to minimize the damage of the expansion draft is cutting off your nose to spite your face.

If you look at some of my later posts, I wasn't just talking about a Staal trade in relation to Haula, Svech, Dougie, and the Expansion Draft. I was also talking about the upcoming cap crunch that the Bruins (who want to extend Krug), the Leafs (who want to keep Barrie and/or Muzzin), and the Sharks (who want to extend Labanc long-term) may have to deal with next off-season. A Staal trade for expirings and draft picks/prospects could help open up space to potentially fit a Nylander, a Labanc, and/or even a Backes/Boston 1st combo. You don't trade a Staal to hurt the team, but rather to improve it even more.
 
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Anton Dubinchuk

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Where on The Athletic are you seeing that Staal's contract is graded as a B- in 2021-2022 and 2022-2023?

His projection is for the remainder of the contract. The contract as a whole gets a B-.

So yeah, maybe 21-22 and 22-23 have like Cs or Ds (who knows), but that means this year it’s more like an A or B+. Or, maybe he’s expecting a flatter aging curve for Staal and he maintains consistent value. Maybe if the aging curve is flat enough he actually gets more valuable over time as the cap increases.

Regardless, the whole thing is silly because we don’t need to decide now if we’re going to trade him in the summer of 2021. We can continue to gather information about his play. For now, he seems like a valuable player who will age well and we shouldn’t trade.
 

GIN ANTONIC

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I'll jump in here. $7.5 mil for Hamilton is very rosy. The next US TV will probably will cause cap inflation. Spurgeon got ~$7.5 mil 2 years in advance of that. Trouba got $8 mil. I'd estimate Hamilton at $8.5 mil or more. Svech's comparables need to be adjusted upward for the same reason. They won't be able to add any significant piece as Necas will eat up a good chunk of that available cap space a year later. Foegele and Gauthier, if they're Top 9 wingers, won't be sub-$1 mil beyond that season, if at all. Same goes for Nedeljkovic as a legit back-up/1B.

Well, we disagree a bit on valuations and that's fine. I'm confident that the borg locks up Dougie, Svech, etc. under market value as they've been able to do with everyone else. Regardless, with the numbers that were in that projected lineup there was like an extra 12-13 mil to play with so even if you give everyone more of a raise like you're talking about the cap structure is still in good shape.

Well, if Haula doesn't produce much at even strength yet continues to produce on the PP, it will reduce that presumed $6M salary a good bit. And, for sure, a $4M 3rd-line center is right in line with what I think is ideal.

Also, I just want to make it clear that my objection to this idea of re-signing Haula while keeping Staal was in the event that Haula balled out this year and was deserving of a $6M deal...it was not a prediction that he would, indeed, earn that salary.

What amounts to 5 ELCs among the forwards are assumed to be productive enough to propel this team to the heights that we'll be shooting for in 2 years, in combination with a goaltending tandem that is paid two-thirds of what we're spending this year. They'll be trying to form a roster built for a long playoff run...I just don't see that salary structure as a blueprint for the balanced strength needed for a deep playoff run.

I agree that maybe 5 ELCs won't be in the forward group in two years but again, there's more than enough cap space in there to go out and find more Dzingels or McGinns to plug holes until the young guys are ready.

If you look at some of my later posts, I wasn't just talking about a Staal trade in relation to Haula, Svech, Dougie, and the Expansion Draft. I was also talking about the upcoming cap crunch that the Bruins (who want to extend Krug), the Leafs (who want to keep Barrie and/or Muzzin), and the Sharks (who want to extend Labanc long-term) may have to deal with next off-season. A Staal trade for expirings and draft picks/prospects could help open up space to potentially fit a Nylander, a Labanc, and/or even a Backes/Boston 1st combo. You don't trade a Staal to hurt the team, but rather to improve it even more.

I get what you're saying but as I've posted many times, I think this is a bit of a backwards way of looking at things. If another Marleau for a 1st situation comes up and we can act on it then great, but it makes no sense to me to try to move Staal in hopes that a situation like that comes along. It's great to have space and be able to make those moves but I don't think you can *plan* to do that years in advance. If it happens, great, then do it. If you trade out Staal and then the opp doesn't present itself you've weakened your team for cap space that wasn't really needed.

His projection is for the remainder of the contract. The contract as a whole gets a B-.

So yeah, maybe 21-22 and 22-23 have like Cs or Ds (who knows), but that means this year it’s more like an A or B+. Or, maybe he’s expecting a flatter aging curve for Staal and he maintains consistent value. Maybe if the aging curve is flat enough he actually gets more valuable over time as the cap increases.

Regardless, the whole thing is silly because we don’t need to decide now if we’re going to trade him in the summer of 2021. We can continue to gather information about his play. For now, he seems like a valuable player who will age well and we shouldn’t trade.

Don't say silly. That's a trigger word around here.
 

Boom Boom Apathy

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I actually think that the Borg will keep one of Edmundson or TVR to a (very) short-term pact, perhaps a 1 year extension, mainly because both of them (and Fleury, for that matter) are clearly better right now than any of the Checkers D. Bean and Priskie are going to still be waivers-exempt next year and should be competing for the final spot on the roster, not just handed spots.

I agree the Borg would "try" to keep one of them on a 1 year extension and it would be nice if it worked out that way, but assuming both guys play well this year, I don't think there's much incentive for them to agree to a 1 year deal, which may be the sticking point. Edmundson is 26 and TVR is 28 and at an age where they may be looking for long term security. I suspect we'd either have to overpay them to get them to agree to a 1 year deal, or offer a longer term deal (as some other team would), and neither of those options seem to fit with the borg's current MO. Of course, if they test the market and strike out, this might be an option.

I have confidence though, that even if those guys walk after this year, the borg will be active and make some sort of value acquisition and make it work. j
 

GIN ANTONIC

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I agree the Borg would "try" to keep one of them on a 1 year extension and it would be nice if it worked out that way, but assuming both guys play well this year, I don't think there's much incentive for them to agree to a 1 year deal, which may be the sticking point. Edmundson is 26 and TVR is 28 and at an age where they may be looking for long term security. I suspect we'd either have to overpay them to get them to agree to a 1 year deal, or offer a longer term deal (as some other team would), and neither of those options seem to fit with the borg's current MO. Of course, if they test the market and strike out, this might be an option.

I have confidence though, that even if those guys walk after this year, the borg will be active and make some sort of value acquisition and make it work. j

Have to think even if Fleury/Bean/Priskie aren't all ready to make the jump then giving a guy like Claesson a chance on the bottom pairing on the cheap is an option. From what Sens and Rangers fans reported he was a steady, reliable presence and while unspectacular, he didn't kill you either. Lots of guys like that out there who are capable of handling those minutes that don't cost an arm and a leg.
 

My Special Purpose

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A Staal trade for expirings and draft picks/prospects could help open up space to potentially fit a Nylander, a Labanc, and/or even a Backes/Boston 1st combo. You don't trade a Staal to hurt the team, but rather to improve it even more.

Yeah, I get it, but I addressed that, too. But the question then becomes, does Labanc make us better than Staal? I get that we're in a constant pattern of reevaluation and reorganization, but we *need* Staal more than we need another guy like Labanc. In a vacuum, Labanc is more valuable, but at some point, we have to look at roles, right? If there's one thing we've learned from the past year of turnover, it's that we need guys slotted correctly, as well as cost-controlled, young and fast.
 

NotOpie

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There's also something to be said if Holler likes to play here with other finns. Carolina is a welcoming enviornmennt, great climate, and region. If I was an NHL player, and Carolina was competitive, I'd damn sure rather play here, than the desert, or frozen north if the difference in salary was only like 15-20%. But then again, I'n not an NHLer. I'm a mountain boy who hates living in Va and wishes he was back in NC.

I'm from VA....we got us plenty of them big ole mountains there....

The advantage of trading Staal next off-season is that the Borg would be able to move an NMC off of the roster, and he would get solid draft and prospect value from a contending team. It would essentially clean up the remnants of those toxic clauses from JR's last years.

To my way of thinking GMBC has decided that we've got a 4 or 5 year window...beginning with this season (and it may extend, but the future is always an unknown). They've decided that Aho, Staal, Teravainen, Slavin, Pesce, probably Svechnikov, and Gardiner are the current core. Guys like Haula, Dzingel, Niederreiter, Mrazek, and Edmundson will be evaluated based on their performance over the next year or 2. If that performance plus a reasonable contract situation can be had, then they likely find their way onto this team. Dougie is probably a player we'll desire to extend if he performance is maintained. But the front office won't over pay. Guys like Foegele, Martinook, McGinn, Wallmark, Van Riemsdyk, Fleury, and even Necas will have to earn their spots annually and with the exception of Martin Necas, are likely viewed as eminently replaceable.

Nylander in particular has the ability to play center and could be slotted in as 2C if Staal is traded.

But he doesn't have the ability to play defense or physically....something this team needs from that center spot.

Nino-Aho-Labanc
Svech-Nylander-Teravainen
Haula-Necas-Gauthier
Foegele-Wallmark-Bjugstad

To repeat myself, two of those centers have yet to prove they can play adequate defense.

In the end, I think we'll see the team spending $48 million to $50 million on forwards, $24 million to $26 million on defense, and $6 million to $7 million on goaltenders. That's around $78 million to $83 million. I assume next season's cap will likely be around $83.5 million. If, as I've said, we're in a 4 to 5 year window, spending $6 million on a 3C isn't really in the cards unless we have: 1) larger increases in the salary cap, and 2) we lean more significantly on ELC players. The former might be a possibility, but the latter isn't a recipe for success IMO.
 
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TheReelChuckFletcher

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To my way of thinking GMBC has decided that we've got a 4 or 5 year window...beginning with this season (and it may extend, but the future is always an unknown). They've decided that Aho, Staal, Teravainen, Slavin, Pesce, probably Svechnikov, and Gardiner are the current core. Guys like Haula, Dzingel, Niederreiter, Mrazek, and Edmundson will be evaluated based on their performance over the next year or 2. If that performance plus a reasonable contract situation can be had, then they likely find their way onto this team. Dougie is probably a player we'll desire to extend if he performance is maintained. But the front office won't over pay. Guys like Foegele, Martinook, McGinn, Wallmark, Van Riemsdyk, Fleury, and even Necas will have to earn their spots annually and with the exception of Martin Necas, are likely viewed as eminently replaceable.

In the end, I think we'll see the team spending $48 million to $50 million on forwards, $24 million to $26 million on defense, and $6 million to $7 million on goaltenders. That's around $78 million to $83 million. I assume next season's cap will likely be around $83.5 million. If, as I've said, we're in a 4 to 5 year window, spending $6 million on a 3C isn't really in the cards unless we have: 1) larger increases in the salary cap, and 2) we lean more significantly on ELC players. The former might be a possibility, but the latter isn't a recipe for success IMO.

My concept isn't so much about individual players, but rather about keeping your team flexible while other teams are playing tiddly-winks and getting themselves into cap hell. I just named Nylander and Labanc as possible cap casualties next year, and can be replaced with other names, if need be.
 

Roboturner913

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Haula is everything I ever wanted Jordan Staal to be offensively. And I'm not bashing Jordo, because I suspect a big part of why he has never been that guy is because of defensive commitments.

It's just this team has needed a garbageman for so long. It never made sense to me a team with such high shot metrics never could find a guy to go stand in front of the net and wait for rebounds. And if that was all Haula did, he'd be worth it, but he's doing a lot more too. How Vegas let this guy get away with that cheap of a contract, blows my mind.
 

bleedgreen

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Where on The Athletic are you seeing that Staal's contract is graded as a B- in 2021-2022 and 2022-2023?
Dude it’s the athletic. What’s wrong with you. Sara even works for them, and a guy who ranks prospects with videos that often don’t fit the attribute he’s trying to show. If they say it’s a good contract and you disagree you know nothing about hockey.
 

Lempo

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How Vegas let this guy get away with that cheap of a contract, blows my mind.

We had chatter about NHL players at the work yesterday. A buddy who watches aplenty said that he was sure that Haula was done playing hockey for good after the knee injury.

Vegas *should* have known how his recovery was going, but maybe they had de Haan type of considerations nevertheless.
 
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Just doink

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We had chatter about NHL players at the work yesterday. A buddy who watches aplenty said that he was sure that Haula was done playing hockey for good after the knee injury.

Vegas *should* have known how his recovery was going, but maybe they had de Haan type of considerations nevertheless.

Vegas had that Gusev-situation going on and i think Haula was cap space-move, no?
 

Lempo

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Vegas had that Gusev-situation going on and i think Haula was cap space-move, no?

Apparently yes. Also massive fumble, apparently, because in Russian Sport-Express' interview in May Gusev told that he had befriendled Haula, who he met first and who was sitting with him a lot in the pressbox because of being injured. They chatted a lot, trained together and Haula was easy to talk with because his English is good but not fast like that of North American guys', and Haula was supportive of Gusev from the get-go.

(edit: initially translated from Finn translat-article based on apparently this piece, which maybe had too much emphasis on the Haula bit: )

Nikita Gusev Opens Up On Wide Range Of Topics In Russian Interview - SinBin.vegas
 
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Roboturner913

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Knee injuries don't kill sports careers anymore. Dudes tear an ACL and come back in 6 months. Teddy Bridgewater basically tore his entire leg off below the knee, 3 years later he's starting at QB. 10 years ago, his career would've been over. 20 years ago and he'd probably be an amputee.
 

57special

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Haula has been of my fav players for years, back to when he was killing it for the Gophers. It was he, and not Bjugstad, who was the high scorer for those teams, but scouts fell in love Bjugstad's size and took him in the 1st. MN stole Haula in the 6th round. He was very fast, but was relegated to a checking role by the infamous Mike Yeo, who never met a skilled player he couldn't stifle. MN used to stick Haula on P.Kane during their playoff tilts.

His nickname in the Wild dressing room was Haula Fama, an ironic reference to his over the OTT goal celly's.
 

My Special Purpose

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Knee injuries don't kill sports careers anymore. Dudes tear an ACL and come back in 6 months. Teddy Bridgewater basically tore his entire leg off below the knee, 3 years later he's starting at QB. 10 years ago, his career would've been over. 20 years ago and he'd probably be an amputee.

Not disagreeing, but Haula's injury was unique. It wasn't a simple ACL or MCL tear, that could be handled arthroscopically. He dislocated his patella and chipped bones and cartilage inside his knee. Cartilage is different than ligaments. It doesn't grow back.

Good story on it here.
 
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