LeBrun: "...very preliminary discussion between Pittsburgh and Dallas." (Fleury)

[Mr Misty]

If Dallas goes into next season with Niemi and Lehtonen then Nill should be fired. The talk is all about "who would take Fleury". We know that nobody wants either of Dallas' goalies. And they need to try something different or kiss away another year where winning isn't going to happen. Dallas is more desperate than any team to have someone take a goalie.

Mason and Neuvirth had good results with Reese and aren't having the kind of years that suggest they will get big offers this summer. A Niemi buyout is 1.5m dead cap for 2 years and 4m buys a pretty good goalie for less space than Fleury takes up because there are a half dozen starters out there.

It's not a desperate situation when we will be breaking in a new coach and at most these problems will last 1 further year.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Nill was in on Cam Talbot, then backed out, then under recommendation of new goalie coach Jeff Reese he got back in. Unfortunately for us Dallas fans he bailed again and decided to go the UFA route. Edmonton ends up with Talbot.

Awful. I wanted Talbot pretty badly. Kills me.

problem is Nill is great at scouting forwards, not so hot on scouting D and goalies

its evident in the moves he has made as well. Oduya and Hamhuis are terrific dmen, in the right situation. Problem is thats not the situation in Dallas

The net issues have long been addressed at this point

Dallas has "nice" young dmen in Johns, Lindell, Honka, but nothing with VERY promising upside

Unfortunately Dallas might be resorted to trying to outbid the FA market moving forward to improve the blue line

 

[Mr Misty]

problem is Nill is great at scouting forwards, not so hot on scouting D and goalies

its evident in the moves he has made as well. Oduya and Hamhuis are terrific dmen, in the right situation. Problem is thats not the situation in Dallas

The net issues have long been addressed at this point

Dallas has "nice" young dmen in Johns, Lindell, Honka, but nothing with VERY promising upside

Unfortunately Dallas might be resorted to trying to outbid the FA market moving forward to improve the blue line

Except the price for Talbot was Honka, and TJ is the only one who moons over him anymore because Honka does have "VERY promising upside." And Lindell plays on the top pair with Klingberg as a rookie, so maybe he's got a little bit of that as well?

I don't know how you got there about defensemen in the first place. Oduya and Hamhuis are not terrific, they are adequate 2nd pairing guys who make less than they contribute. I'm unclear what is not so hot about Nill's scouting in those two cases. And using free agency is no sin when you only spend a hair over 17m on 9 defensemen in the first place and 3.75m of that is Oduya's expiring contract. Spending on the roster needs to be rebalanced anyway, and we have enough expiring money to be competitive on any free agent this offseason.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Except the price for Talbot was Honka, and TJ is the only one who moons over him anymore because Honka does have "VERY promising upside." And Lindell plays on the top pair with Klingberg as a rookie, so maybe he's got a little bit of that as well?

I don't know how you got there about defensemen in the first place. Oduya and Hamhuis are not terrific, they are adequate 2nd pairing guys who make less than they contribute. I'm unclear what is not so hot about Nill's scouting in those two cases. And using free agency is no sin when you only spend a hair over 17m on 9 defensemen in the first place and 3.75m of that is Oduya's expiring contract. Spending on the roster needs to be rebalanced anyway, and we have enough expiring money to be competitive on any free agent this offseason.

lindell was widley acknowledged as a future 3rd pair dman on here now he is being projected as more.

playing top pair minutes on the 28th place team in the league alongside a guy who isnt a true #1 dman isnt a ringing endorsement

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Im curious why Pens fans think Fleury would help anybody's goaltending when they don't want anything to do with the guy themselves. I still think they have to make it more interesting than just say "here's Fleury wanna try if he works out for ya?". For the most part goaltending is the least of teams problems nowdays.. Dallas is like the only team that keep on struggling with it, and even they seem to think it's more on the defense (Kari's actually been good lately in games i've seen).

With regards to the bolded, the reason's name is Matt Murray. To the Penguins, Fleury is an expensive backup since Murray seems to have taken the #1 job, is younger, and is cheaper. But to a team that is struggling in nets and is looking for a proven starter, he has value.

We (the fans) don't "want" Fleury because he's unnecessary with Murray around, and is just taking up cap space that could be used to strengthen other areas of the roster.

 

[PensPlz]

We (the fans) don't "want" Fleury because he's unnecessary with Murray around, and is just taking up cap space that could be used to strengthen other areas of the roster.

And how does trading with Dallas fix this?

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

And how does trading with Dallas fix this?

Because the guy coming back (Niemi) in the assumed deal will have a lower cap hit? An extra million dollars less, and one less year of term. An extra million might not seem much at the start of the season, but is quite a lot by the trade deadline.

That's not even touching on the obviously bigger issue for the Pens, that Niemi could be left exposed in the expansion draft and Murray protected.

 

[PensPlz]

Because the guy coming back (Niemi) in the assumed deal will have a lower cap hit? An extra million dollars less, and one less year of term. An extra million might not seem much at the start of the season, but is quite a lot by the trade deadline.

That's not even touching on the obviously bigger issue for the Pens, that Niemi could be left exposed in the expansion draft and Murray protected.

Well duh. But then Niemi is "still unnecessary with Murray around, and is just taking up cap space that could be used to strengthen other areas of the roster." And him costing a million less isn't going to vastly improve our lines, if at all.

Only reason to move him is to protect Murray, and that's a good reason. But don't act like our team is going to get significantly better if we make a deal to send Fleury to Dallas. Until 2018, It's going be a lateral move at best, and a disaster if Murray gets hurt and we're starting Niemi in the playoffs.

 

[Riptide]

problem is Fleury is too old at this point to be an estabished no.1 when he didnt win the gig at his current team, injury or not

its really not worth any team to trade for him.

let PIT get pressured into buying him out and take your chances on him in the FA market

If Dallas trades for Fleury, Nill should be fired

LOL what!?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

problem is Fleury is too old at this point to be an estabished no.1 when he didnt win the gig at his current team, injury or not

its really not worth any team to trade for him.

let PIT get pressured into buying him out and take your chances on him in the FA market

If Dallas trades for Fleury, Nill should be fired

Good lord, what are you on about?

Fleury's last 3yrs before this season, had him putting up better numbers each season. He and the team started out rough, the Penguins were allowing the most shots against to start the season and were a nightmare on defense, it started to get better and Murray was healthy again, when Murray got his starts again, Fleury stopped getting his and for a guy that plays 50-60+ games a year, starting once a week threw him off, some goalies are ok transitioning to a back-up role for a bit, MAF isn't. He's a workhorse goalie. Also, he turns 33 at the end of the year, he's about the same age as a lot of of the other starters in the league.

Price turns 30 this year
Fleury turns 33
Rinne hits 35
Lundqvist turns 34
Bishop turns 31

Etc.

How on earth is 33 too old? Lol. Also, Fleury is very much a number one still, he's having a rough year, the only reason we Pens fans want him gone is to not lose another player because the team might have to protect him, agreement or not between he and JR, that is our main concern and then cap space, but that cap space thing isn't really even an issue, it's not like it's barring the Pens from making moves to begin with, if JR wanted to make a trade, he has salary he can shed with ease before Fleury hinders it.

Also, it's funny how any other goalie that is having a down year, gets a pass, but Fleury doesn't. He can improve all he wants and have it show in his play and his stats, but people will point out his past years, but never the more recent years, because hey, why pick something that is recent when something 7yrs ago is better for some lame hate for the guy.

I really hope he is moved to a team that plays him a ton, he'll rebound. Hell, his last 5 games, Fleury is rebounding, he's adjusting to the new role. I hope he continues to lower his GAA and raise his SV%, then it'll be funny for the people that hate on the guy to point at his current numbers for some moronic hate towards him because then it falls inline with his last 3yrs and the jabs stop.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Why replace Lehtonen with Canadian Lehtonen?

 

[airbus220]

Price turns 30 this year
Fleury turns 33
Rinne hits 35
Lundqvist turns 34
Bishop turns 31

Etc.

How on earth is 33 too old? Lol.

I hope he continues to lower his GAA and raise his SV%,

Nobody will trade for Rinne.
Nobody will trade for Lundqvist.
Nobody

Fleury can improve as much as he wants, this season he won't reach Lehtonen's EVsave%.

 

[airbus220]

The Pens won't have to buy out Fleury. Nor are they talking about it, it is wishful thinking at best.

So you mean they will protect Fleury. That's great.

 

[airbus220]

Only if he structures it in such a way as to make him unmoveable.
However, fortunately for us, he had to make his list in July, not today. And realistically, most players do not structure their lists like that. They list the teams they would/wouldn't want to end up in without their consent, and that's that. That protects them from getting sent to whomever is that year/decade's bottom feeder.

Players ask for NTC because they don't want to get traded and they leave money on the table to get an NTC. So of course they structure the list to be unmovable.

It's even more dumb to think that Fleury would waive it because he paild a lot of money for his NTC.

 

[airbus220]

Murray got his shot because Fleury was out with a concussion (his second in about a month),

You mean Fleury had 2 concussions within a month. wow

 

[dechire]

You mean Fleury had 2 concussions within a month. wow

2 goalies with 4 concussions. What could possibly go wrong ?

 

[Extra Texture]

You mean Fleury had 2 concussions within a month. wow

He probably ate some tainted beef

 

[Mr Misty]

lindell was widley acknowledged as a future 3rd pair dman on here now he is being projected as more.

playing top pair minutes on the 28th place team in the league alongside a guy who isnt a true #1 dman isnt a ringing endorsement

He was the best defenseman in the finnish league and then was great in the AHL. One post ago you said Oduya and Hamhuis were terrific defensemen, now you are saying getting 3 minutes and 1.5 minutes more ice per game than these players isn't a ringing endorsement? There's no consistency to anything you posted, is a rookie playing a lot of minutes evidence that he isn't good?

 

[Ian Moran Icing]

What are the fans of Dallas Stars opinions on these players, and would you trade them straight up for MAF:

Sharp
Hamhuis

 

[stepdad gaary]

Nobody will trade for Rinne.
Nobody will trade for Lundqvist.
Nobody

Fleury can improve as much as he wants, this season he won't reach Lehtonen's EVsave%.

so theyre not #1s lmao?

 

[Riptide]

Players ask for NTC because they don't want to get traded and they leave money on the table to get an NTC. So of course they structure the list to be unmovable.

It's even more dumb to think that Fleury would waive it because he paild a lot of money for his NTC.

Wrong again (seems to be a theme for you doesn't it?). They ask for NTC's so they don't get traded to a place they wouldn't normally go to without their consent. And MAF didn't leave a penny on the table when he signed his current contract.

 

[Uncle Scrooge]

That's not the point. The point is that Fleury established very consistent numbers in the regular season, which has inherent value. The Pens being a successful regular season team doesn't diminish those numbers (particularly since they've never been known as a defensive powerhouse), and Fleury's playoff track record is something else entirely.

Contenders shouldn't want him. Teams with goalie issues trying to get to the playoffs should.

Scoring on great teams playing well is ALWAYS tougher (for teams worse than you). It doesn't matter what style they play. You do realize the Pens have been in the bottom 10 in GA for each of the last 5 seasons ? Fleury's numbers are nothing spectacular. The only thing he's done is stay consistent in the regular season behind a great team. Jeff Zatkoff had over 91 save pct and a decent GAA every year with the Pens. He's probably the worst goalie in the league this year.

Which brings me to your point about the regular season, and that's correct. However, name me "more than a few" (that's a quote from you) teams who are not contenders but have goalie issues. Im guessing you're downplaying a lot of goalies around the league, or putting too much into something that has happened recently. I honestly don't see them.

Because he is a starting goalie. If you don't think so, compile a list of all the NHL goalies who had GAA under 2.40 and SV% over .912 every year for the past 5 years. I bet it's a short list including nothing but bona-fide starters.

If i were to compile this list, i'd guarantee you none of the goalies in that list got more flack than Fleury over the years.

Players sometimes struggle and need a change of scenery. The standard Fleury set in 286 regular season games over the last half-decade isn't erased because of poor numbers over 28 games this year.

Only on HF.

Those 286 regular season games he played behind a top team. He's struggling right now playing behind the same team and posting significantly worse numbers than Murray. If someone were to trade for him they'd have to

A) believe a change of scenery helps him (never played for any other team than the Pens)
B) think that Fleury would do well for their team despite being clearly worse than the Pens
C) want him as their starting goalie (virtually every team in the league have someone they've committed to, whether it be bonafide #1 or young guy at the age where he should take over next year)
D) be fine with Fleury as a short-term solution, he most likely doesn't have more than 4-5 good years left in him
E) find a deal with the Pens through all the NMC's and cap issues

Pens fans = He's easy to trade. And even in most proposals they expect to get equal value or more in return. Only on HF.

Why would they buy him out if they could trade him?

I said it would be a lot easier for teams to take a look if they got him for low $$ to play 1B behind their young guy as the veteran presence, but in most cases the Pens would have to retain so much it wouldn't make a difference whether they bought him out or not. (it was more of a sarcastic throw-in)

Maybe im sounding too harsh on Fleury. I think he could be a steady guy to have back there for teams looking for some sort of success. But the problem is i don't think he's better than what (almost) anyone has. It remains to be seen what GM's think of him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Exactly, a legit #1 goalie came in and Fleury haven't had a chance since then. Maybe the Pens realized what it is to have a actual great goalie back there ?

That's some horribly faulty logic, just because Murray is better than Fleury doesn't mean Fleury isn't a #1 goalie.

 

[CanadianPensFan1]

Those 286 regular season games he played behind a top team.

SO: Can I assume, then, that you would put Brodeur's numbers in question as well? Sure, he wasnt playing behind "great teams," but surely you would agree that the Devils, during most of Brodeur's tenure, were one of the best, if not THE best, defensive scheme system in the game. I'd HAVE to imagine that this would have an effect on a goaltenders numbers and surely inflate them right?

I mean, if MAF's numbers arent reliable because he had a great team in front of him .. this must apply to other goalies as well, yes?

 

[Big McLargehuge]

That's some horribly faulty logic, just because Murray is better than Fleury doesn't mean Fleury isn't a #1 goalie.

How could Malkin be a Top 100 player of All-Time if he's not even the #1 center on his team, eh?