OT: Vancouver realtor facing criminal charges and life time ban from beer league for kicking an opponent on the face with his skates

RandV

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Jul 29, 2003
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While I agree by and large that a lot of people playing beer league / recreational hockey aren’t all that bad, every league I’ve played in has had its share of whack jobs.

Some of the stories here have reminded me of one of my silliest experiences. Nobody was dirty - it was just gobsmacking to me.

...
Yeah that's kind of what I mean, if everyone just puts out there worst stories it makes it sound terrible. Like that team sounds terrible and certainly not how you should organize things.

Like If I spend a few minutes to think about and compile my own numbers, it comes out something like (incidents are witnessed, not experienced):

started: 2008
My cities: 3 (Calgary, North Van, Burnaby)
My teams: 5
My GP: maybe 500
Serious injuries witnessed from dirty plays: 1
Serious injuries witnessed from unlucky plays: 2
Fights witnessed: 5-10
Harmless but embarrassing side show moments witnessed that you tell stories about: 2

So from my own personal experience there's enough there that everyone's going to have a story or two but not enough to make it some sort of epidemic or fundamental culture issue. I probably have some rose coloured glasses though as starting as an adult I never went through the youth grind so I've always just loved playing the game.
 

H34DSW1LLR0LL

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Aug 7, 2022
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As someone who started playing ice hockey as an adult and been at it coming up 15 years I think this is like a completely different thing. When they say "hockey culture" I'd say you're looking at organized competitive hockey that starts with youth and build a system that pushes the best into a professional career.

As with anything you can get some idiots and most players will come from that system but this your career is over and it's just beer league hockey, same sport but a completely separate entity. Get some players together who've been around long enough and you can get some terrible stories but for like 99% of the games it's just a bunch of dudes and the occasional lady slowly chasing a puck around for 40 minutes. Though to be fair, I suppose playing somewhere like freakin Whitehorse is going to be different than the city. Also when a 50+ team occasionally got sent down to my div they were the dirties teams we'd play, though not in a dangerous rage issue way but more of a classic Gordie Howe hockey way.

I'd say you can't really "end" this stuff in beer league but in my opinion a good way to curtail is to put up cameras and when shit like this happens get the cops involved. Unlike a professional hockey player when you play your league dues maybe an errant puck or stuck could knock some teeth out if you're only wearing a visor but you're not signing up with the assumption of direct bodily harm. Treat it the same way you would if this happened out on the street.

Finally to throw out a classic from one of my '1%' games, earlier on in my career playing up in North Van we had this one kid show up for a game with us that start with him bragging in the dressing room how he played junior hockey and started trying to organize the bench and ended after the final whistle with him tearing off his jersey to show the refs the 'wounds' he received from all their missed calls. Yeah we didn't invite him back :laugh:

I'm not really sure how your post counters the notion there's a problem with hockey culture, even at the level of adult rec leagues.

To chime in with RandV, I also started skating and then progressed to playing hockey in my early to mid teens, so I was never a part of the organized side of hockey so I think we have had similar experiences with hockey.

There are a few types of guys who give even mid to low level hockey a bad name. The ones who wish they had been part of organized hockey as a kid and are trying to live out the fantasy as adults. The ones who never made it past junior as a teen and are now as adults living in the delusion that they can still make it to the show, they think that every game is the next chance to prove they have "it", or in some cases you have guys who are just ass-holes in all aspects of their life and hockey is just one of many avenues they let it out in. Some people also just take things way to serious, in trying to give their all and get better they forget to keep their emotions in check.

You combine those types of players with the game of hockey that is played at a pace that ramps up the adrenaline and emotional intensity of almost anyone and you will have the odd outburst, sometimes ending in a fight.
Even at lower levels of play the amount of mind body control that is required to skate, stick handle, pass and make plays requires a crazy amount of focus. That's not to say other sports are not just as challenging in their own rights, but as an amateur player of all types of sports, hockey IMO is the hardest and the most intense. Even just frustration at your own mistakes can build over a game if your not careful. Now yes there are players who either because they are lazy or are actually dirty love to hook, trip, slash, etc, which can egg on someone who normally is very calm and collected by nature, but dirty plays exist in all sports.

Hell I have lost it on guys before, never to the point of actually fighting, but its easy once your emotions start to boil over to understand how you can loose your cool, especially if your looking for it in the first place. That has nothing to do with the culture of hockey and everything to do with people not being taught from an early age to respect other peoples well being as a fellow human.

Loosing your cool and getting aggressive happens in all types of activities. You should see the fights that can occur in bowling alleys/ pool halls in small towns, never mind the heat stroked and alcohol fueled dust ups that occur at weekend baseball tournaments, often times with chicks throwing the first punches.

As others have mentioned the issues with fighting and aggression in Rec level hockey is not so much about the "Culture of Hockey" as it is about the culture of society and how that's connected to not just hockey but all competitive sports/activities.

Don't take this the wrong way, I am not justifying this behavior as okay, far from it. Its simply starting to feel like throwing out that the ' Culture of Hockey" needs to change is the lazy catch all response to any and all bad press the game gets.

The organized side of hockey has its issues, we know this. Does even rec level hockey have people who should be seeing therapists for anger-control issues? You bet, but is hockey one of the most rewarding games you can play? You better believe it, I will play until I physically am unable to.
 
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Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
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Thing is, even with "old time hockey", where stuck swing/fencing with hockey sticks happened on occasion (Guys like Wayne Cashman), kicking another player/using your skate as a weapon was always viewed as the lowest of the low tactic.
 

racerjoe

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Jun 3, 2012
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Yeah that's why you wear a cage!

But I think to be more specific just comparing hockey & soccer as that's what I play hockey has the minuscule but real odds for more of a catastrophic injury but soccer even at a casual coed with no slide tackling level is harder on you with general wear & tear. As long as you don't get hit in the face with a puck or cross checked head first into the boards or something, I find non-contact hockey a relatively easy sport to play as you age.

Soccer seems like it would lend itself more to soft tissue damage at a higher rate. Hockey as you said, if you get injured it's probably a huge deal. I went down to block a passing lane with my legs earlier this year and I guess I dropped too fast because I dislocated my god damn kneecap. Heard a pop and everything. 10/10 discomfort on a play I've done hundreds of times before. But you know, that's why I don't like to play defense lol.


If you want a sport that is easy on the body that is still active, beach volleyball. I didn’t play a lick of it in school, not even court volleyball, and now beach is my favourite sport.

The sand makes it soft on joints, no contact with other teams. You have top end pro’s who are 44 years old on the AVP. It’s also great exercise doing anything in the sand.
 

Mr. Canucklehead

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Dec 14, 2002
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Yeah that's kind of what I mean, if everyone just puts out there worst stories it makes it sound terrible. Like that team sounds terrible and certainly not how you should organize things.

Like If I spend a few minutes to think about and compile my own numbers, it comes out something like (incidents are witnessed, not experienced):

started: 2008
My cities: 3 (Calgary, North Van, Burnaby)
My teams: 5
My GP: maybe 500
Serious injuries witnessed from dirty plays: 1
Serious injuries witnessed from unlucky plays: 2
Fights witnessed: 5-10
Harmless but embarrassing side show moments witnessed that you tell stories about: 2

So from my own personal experience there's enough there that everyone's going to have a story or two but not enough to make it some sort of epidemic or fundamental culture issue. I probably have some rose coloured glasses though as starting as an adult I never went through the youth grind so I've always just loved playing the game.

I think that’s fair commentary. I love hockey with a passion - I played minor hockey, and probably a further decade playing adult recreational hockey / beer league hockey. There was a lot of good times in there sprinkled with some of the negative stories. I’ve been coaching my kids in hockey for going on 9 years now (my oldest is starting Bantam, my youngest Atom). I always wanted them to in the hopes they’d develop a similar life long appreciation for the game and be able to have fun, make some friends, and exercise. Of course that comes with the odd reminder - as my Dad would say - to “watch out for the other idiot”. But there’s a lot of good times, fun stories and nice people to meet in recreational hockey. And personally, I always loved the challenge of playing against guys who were clearly better than me - guys who played Junior, collegiate, or even professionally.

It just makes a world of difference when you’re playing with a group of guys who are there to have fun and not go nuts, versus some of the archetypes we’ve described here.

I’d also say in all my years playing I’ve been fortunate to never have seen an incident to the level of what happened in the video that started this whole discussion. I served as volunteer commissioner of the men’s league here in Kitimat and certainly have some yarns I could spin about on and off ice misbehaviour. But again, there was a lot of good times and good people mixed in there, too.
 

ChilliBilly

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Aug 22, 2007
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Had a game 30 years ago in Winnipeg playing 2nd div, which was over my head. Before the game everyone said, "hey watch out for this asshole". We were playing shorthanded 5 on 3 in the 2nd period when one of our guys went to ice the puck. The "asshole" speared him in the leg as he was going to shoot. He was getting up from off the ice, looking to see if the ref had called a penalty. (They had). The guy cross checked him back to the ice when he wasn't looking in that direction. He was standing over our guy, waiting for him to try and get up. One of our D men (Brian W, 5'7" 230 lb gorilla who cold run a marathon in under 3 hours, guy was fit and tough as nails) skated from 40 ft away and crosschecked him to the ice. Got on top of of him and punched him about 30 times. Got up and went to the dressing room. Waited for the asshole in the hallway, and beat the shit out of him. The asshole called the cops, and they were going to charge him with assault. One of the refs was pushing for it. The other ref said to the 1st ref and the cops, this asshole had this coming for a long time. No charges. Our guy got 3 games, the other guy (the "asshole") was suspended for life.
 

lawrence

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May 19, 2012
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He’s a the son of Doris and Phil (former vpd)also real estate agents Known to be active in the Burnaby and Vancouver area. people in the hockey community in the lower Mainland said that he’s so reckless he was banned in one league which also extended to another league for his recklessness.

The ASHL is literally a league, players go to to avoid that crap. It’s literally a friendly league that is catered literally for beginners, or just players with a lower skill level. lots of females play and it’s quite casual. Brandon had nowhere else to go but the ASHL. That’s how many leagues he’s been kicked out of it. It’s quite an embarrassment for the ASHL. I use to play right after a ASHL game, it’s as slow pace as it can get. For him to pull that shit in the ASHL is a disgrace and a slap in the face to that league.
 

MS

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Mar 18, 2002
53,611
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Vancouver, BC
Was your time in NZ work-based, @MS ? I fell in love with the country a few years back and always wanted to spend an extended amount of time there, but never was sure about the best way to go about it.

No - I hooked up with a Kiwi girl in Canada and we went back there together as she still needed to finish university. I was under 30 at the time so I got an open visa for the first year and then partner visas through her for the next couple years.
 
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BenningHurtsMySoul

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Mar 18, 2008
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I purposely play in a 30+ lower rec league because I got tired of the 23 year old ex Junior B players that think it's Game 7 of the SCF every night.

We all work in the morning, and I sign my cheques on the front - not the back.

He’s a the son of Doris and Phil (former vpd)also real estate agents Known to be active in the Burnaby and Vancouver area. people in the hockey community in the lower Mainland said that he’s so reckless he was banned in one league which also extended to another league for his recklessness.

The ASHL is literally a league, players go to to avoid that crap. It’s literally a friendly league that is catered literally for beginners, or just players with a lower skill level. lots of females play and it’s quite casual. Brandon had nowhere else to go but the ASHL. That’s how many leagues he’s been kicked out of it. It’s quite an embarrassment for the ASHL. I use to play right after a ASHL game, it’s as slow pace as it can get. For him to pull that shit in the ASHL is a disgrace and a slap in the face to that league.

Div A in ASHL is pretty high level
 

LickTheEnvelope

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Dec 16, 2008
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Yeah that's kind of what I mean, if everyone just puts out there worst stories it makes it sound terrible. Like that team sounds terrible and certainly not how you should organize things.

Like If I spend a few minutes to think about and compile my own numbers, it comes out something like (incidents are witnessed, not experienced):

started: 2008
My cities: 3 (Calgary, North Van, Burnaby)
My teams: 5
My GP: maybe 500
Serious injuries witnessed from dirty plays: 1
Serious injuries witnessed from unlucky plays: 2
Fights witnessed: 5-10
Harmless but embarrassing side show moments witnessed that you tell stories about: 2

So from my own personal experience there's enough there that everyone's going to have a story or two but not enough to make it some sort of epidemic or fundamental culture issue. I probably have some rose coloured glasses though as starting as an adult I never went through the youth grind so I've always just loved playing the game.

Same for me. I've been out of playing for a few years now but over countless years in ice and roller-hockey leagues I only ever witnessed a handful of incidents.

My only real injury was a busted ankle from a rough hit I took where a guy who couldn't skate that well hung a knee and just clipped one of legs. I spun and the ankle I spun on just gave out.

Refs have mostly been pretty great everywhere i've played.
 
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iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
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Does it have to be said? 95% (probably closer to 99%) of the players in rec hockey don't really know how to fight. It's actually a little embarrassing and awkward to watch the very few times it does happen.

And, by my count, actual drop the gloves fighting during my 30 years of playing rec hockey, maybe 3 times. There are lots of scrums, mostly harmless, but almost none ever amount to actual fighting.
 

hlrsr

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Sep 16, 2006
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He’s a the son of Doris and Phil (former vpd)also real estate agents Known to be active in the Burnaby and Vancouver area. people in the hockey community in the lower Mainland said that he’s so reckless he was banned in one league which also extended to another league for his recklessness.

The ASHL is literally a league, players go to to avoid that crap. It’s literally a friendly league that is catered literally for beginners, or just players with a lower skill level. lots of females play and it’s quite casual. Brandon had nowhere else to go but the ASHL. That’s how many leagues he’s been kicked out of it. It’s quite an embarrassment for the ASHL. I use to play right after a ASHL game, it’s as slow pace as it can get. For him to pull that shit in the ASHL is a disgrace and a slap in the face to that league.

The ASHL is a pretty standard beer league and in the lower mainland it would probably be described as the most prominent one. The ASHL-run leagues at the various facilities generally contain many, many divisions (often 15-20) so the skill level and competitiveness is all over the map.

It's nationwide so it's pretty well organized, but despite the name there isn't whole lot particularly "safer" or more casual about it. I guess they generally are ahead of the curve when it comes to cracking down on things eg. 10 mins for any head contact, 4 minutes for stick infractions, visors required, etc.

That said, this guy was indeed playing in a low division. I can't be sympathetic to this guy at all just looking at his history of PIMs in the ASHL alone. The kind of guy the ASHL should make an example of and deservedly so.
 

iceburg

Don't ask why
Aug 31, 2003
7,638
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...
Even at lower levels of play the amount of mind body control that is required to skate, stick handle, pass and make plays requires a crazy amount of focus. That's not to say other sports are not just as challenging in their own rights, but as an amateur player of all types of sports, hockey IMO is the hardest and the most intense. Even just frustration at your own mistakes can build over a game if your not careful. Now yes there are players who either because they are lazy or are actually dirty love to hook, trip, slash, etc, which can egg on someone who normally is very calm and collected by nature, but dirty plays exist in all sports.
...
Have you ever played golf? My clubs have taken a beating on occasion.
 
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racerjoe

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Jun 3, 2012
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He’s a the son of Doris and Phil (former vpd)also real estate agents Known to be active in the Burnaby and Vancouver area. people in the hockey community in the lower Mainland said that he’s so reckless he was banned in one league which also extended to another league for his recklessness.

The ASHL is literally a league, players go to to avoid that crap. It’s literally a friendly league that is catered literally for beginners, or just players with a lower skill level. lots of females play and it’s quite casual. Brandon had nowhere else to go but the ASHL. That’s how many leagues he’s been kicked out of it. It’s quite an embarrassment for the ASHL. I use to play right after a ASHL game, it’s as slow pace as it can get. For him to pull that shit in the ASHL is a disgrace and a slap in the face to that league.


Couple others have said it, but it should be repeated, ASHL is not a low level league. It is the largest league in the lower mainland (in the world as well) and at each location has 15-20 levels, that extend to both weekend leagues and week day leagues.

I have played in it with ex NHL players, former CHL stars, and one or two AHL players, at the right level it is not low level at all.
 
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BenningHurtsMySoul

Unfair Huggy Bear
Mar 18, 2008
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Port Coquitlam, BC
Couple others have said it, but it should be repeated, ASHL is not a low level league. It is the largest league in the lower mainland (in the world as well) and at each location has 15-20 levels, that extend to both weekend leagues and week day leagues.

I have played in it with ex NHL players, former CHL stars, and one or two AHL players, at the right level it is not low level at all.
I played in the NCHL out in Pitt Meadows and the quality was night and day.

I put up 70 points in 30 games, it was basically a learn to play league. ASHL I'm like a bottom 6 grinder at a comparable DIV level.
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
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I played in the NCHL out in Pitt Meadows and the quality was night and day.

I put up 70 points in 30 games, it was basically a learn to play league. ASHL I'm like a bottom 6 grinder at a comparable DIV level.


I wasn't that good, but playing with players that much better than you, makes you so much better. Everyone is just where they should be the speed picks up, and you don't need to think about it that much.
 

Petey But Really Jim

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I wasn't that good, but playing with players that much better than you, makes you so much better. Everyone is just where they should be the speed picks up, and you don't need to think about it that much.
Steel sharpens steel
 

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
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Steel sharpens steel
How about a set of steak knives (I won a set for coming in 2nd place!):

0*4yjpblftRTBmRBib.png
 
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BenningHurtsMySoul

Unfair Huggy Bear
Mar 18, 2008
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Port Coquitlam, BC
I wasn't that good, but playing with players that much better than you, makes you so much better. Everyone is just where they should be the speed picks up, and you don't need to think about it that much.
Yep, this is huge. The lack of that extra second with the puck is more than cancelled by the fact that if you make a quick touch pass or no look saucer, there's a good chance you hit a stick if you know what you're doing. Vs. lower levels where it takes your teammates an extra second to get to where they need to be
 

Hit the post

I have your gold medal Zippy!
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It just occured to me (ok, I'm slow) that I pretty much never see kids playing the traditional street hockey we all used to enjoy for hours in our distant past in front of our houses/streets. Mainly because with many houses on the streets nowadays with 'laneway houses' (and their resultant additional occupants & drivers) leaving the streets full of parked cars (excluding working hours - kids are in school during this time anyhow largely). Guess kids go to a nearby school or gym to get their fill of 'street hockey' today?

 

Lindgren

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Jun 30, 2005
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It just occured to me (ok, I'm slow) that I pretty much never see kids playing the traditional street hockey we all used to enjoy for hours in our distant past in front of our houses/streets. Mainly because with many houses on the streets nowadays with 'laneway houses' (and their resultant additional occupants & drivers) leaving the streets full of parked cars (excluding working hours - kids are in school during this time anyhow largely). Guess kids go to a nearby school or gym to get their fill of 'street hockey' today?


On the other hand, I rarely see kids at parks playing pick-up games of soccer or football anymore, while in my misty, water-coloured memories, that happened all the time.
 

Mr. Canucklehead

Kitimat Canuck
Dec 14, 2002
40,427
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Kitimat, BC
It just occured to me (ok, I'm slow) that I pretty much never see kids playing the traditional street hockey we all used to enjoy for hours in our distant past in front of our houses/streets. Mainly because with many houses on the streets nowadays with 'laneway houses' (and their resultant additional occupants & drivers) leaving the streets full of parked cars (excluding working hours - kids are in school during this time anyhow largely). Guess kids go to a nearby school or gym to get their fill of 'street hockey' today?



Definitely still happens in small towns where roads are less packed. In a place like Vancouver where everything is densified and towers of condos are going up everywhere, it's just not practical to have a game of road hockey on a busy street.
 

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