Confirmed Trade: [VAN/TBL] J.T. Miller for Marek Mazanec, 2019 3rd round pick, and 2020 conditional 1st round pick

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

Dramatic much? Jesus, If you’re embarrassed to be a nucks fan, there’s a team getting started just south of here that you can get excited about. See ya!

Personally I’m pretty excited to watch an improved, competitive team this coming season with several key young players in place

How often do lottery teams trade their 1sts for a playoff push that may or may not even happen? That's an ass backwards way of doing things. You trade your 1st when you're actually in a position to compete.

The Virtanen and Joulevi picks have both set this franchise back, but at least they're still warm bodies. The lack of a 1st entirely over the next year or two has the potential to be significantly worse, especially when you consider JT ******g Miller is all you have to show for in return.

 

[Hoghandler]

The Virtanen and Joulevi picks have both set this franchise back, but at least they're still warm bodies. The lack of a 1st entirely over the next year or two has the potential to be significantly worse, especially when you consider JT ******g Miller is all you have to show for in return.

Isn't JT Miller a warm body too?

 

[Deen]

Isn't JT Miller a warm body too?

Miller is good. His compete level is up there. I think this was a fair trade for both sides.

 

[EXTRAS]

It's strange how both parties are saying they are happy here and everyone else is saying they disagree with one side.

Canucks fan. Not even close to happy.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Miller is good. His compete level is up there. I think this was a fair trade for both sides.

I’m hoping Miller will prove me wrong, but I’d personally prefer the likely top 15 pick we give up as a result.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

Isn't JT Miller a warm body too?

Yes. Probably his only decent attribute.

 

[Hoghandler]

Yes. Probably his only decent attribute.

You're higher on Virtanen than Miller?

 

[DistantThunderRep]

I’m hoping Miller will prove me wrong, but I’d personally prefer the likely top 15 pick we give up as a result.

This year you'd get to keep it. Next year I see Van pushing a wild card spot.

 

[Mergatroidskittle]

Canucks fan. Not even close to happy.

Canucks fan, and I’m happy

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

This year you'd get to keep it. Next year I see Van pushing a wild card spot.

Yeah I was implying next season - I think we finish around the middle of the pack so I guess top 16 is more accurate.

 

[JTmillerForA1stLOL]

You're higher on Virtanen than Miller?

Not really.

 

[Slyfox]

Reminds me of the Kessel trade. Miller will help them push to a playoff spot but they are stills ways off from being a Stanley Cup contender. Losing draft picks and fast forwarding the rebuild and getting higher picks makes them a treadmill team year in and year out.

 

[CherryToke]

Reminds me of the Kessel trade. Miller will help them push to a playoff spot but they are stills ways off from being a Stanley Cup contender. Losing draft picks and fast forwarding the rebuild and getting higher picks makes them a treadmill team year in and year out.

Except the Leafs didnt have a single top 6 center for Kessel to play with. He was brought in as the piece to lead them and build around.. Not really the same.

 

[Cogburn]

Except the Leafs didnt have a single top 6 center for Kessel to play with. He was brought in as the piece to lead them and build around.. Not really the same.

I agree. Its not the same at all. If Seguin and Hamilton had been drafted by Toronto, and other key pieces were in place, then we could make a comparison. Phaneuf was still a Flame at this point, so really, there wasn't a core or even a few players to build around. Kadri hadn't got into the league yet. Kaberle was the only player on that team worth anything. Stajan, Grabovski and Hagman were the next leading forward scorers after Kessel that year. Bozak was being touted as the next big thing on the Leafs horizon.

There's a lot that doesn't match.

 

[RandV]

I heard the Bolts were only looking for a 2nd round pick for Miller but Benning immediately offered a nonlottery protected conditional 1st. And no, I'm not digging up links.

This was posted a week ago but the point with my post that started that discussion is that these media links like these get posted all the time on the Canucks board. They generate discussion for a while then it dies down and people move onto other topics, and it sticks in your head but I mean no one's going to keep meticulous record of source links on topics they discussed because 2-month/2-year/etc down the road when some dumb thing Benning did gets regurgitated some Benning fan will inevitably challenge the authenticity and suggest you're making shit up if you don't provide a source.

... As could be seen in that exchange two weeks ago, on a topic that was a mere two months old.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

So Vancouver might not have to give up a 1st? What's the condition? man are they dumb

 

[Rangers ftw]

I liked Miller in Rangers, however, I would be surprised if Canucks fans are happy with this deal in the end of the season. Especially if the pick ends up top 15. Vancouver need to have hell of a season for this to be looked upon as a good deal imo.

 

[JoVel]

So Vancouver might not have to give up a 1st? What's the condition? man are they dumb

They'll have to give up a first no matter what happens. If they make the playoffs this season, we get their 2020 1st. If they don't, we get their 2021 1st no matter where they finish.

 

[DFC]

The deal is a win for TB no matter what. It's a win for Vancouver if, with Miller's help, they turn things around before next year and the pick falls to 20th or later.

 

[Canuck86]

How often do lottery teams trade their 1sts for a playoff push that may or may not even happen? That's an ass backwards way of doing things. You trade your 1st when you're actually in a position to compete.

The Virtanen and Joulevi picks have both set this franchise back, but at least they're still warm bodies. The lack of a 1st entirely over the next year or two has the potential to be significantly worse, especially when you consider JT ******g Miller is all you have to show for in return.

Hey @JTmillerForA1stLOL what NHL do you cheer for out of curiosity?

 

[RandV]

So Vancouver might not have to give up a 1st? What's the condition? man are they dumb

Yeah a 1st is gone either way, and the real error in judgment/negotiating here is that not all teams 1sts are equal. I'm only speculating at this point but another team that would be a prime candidate for JT Miller or another Tampa player was Colorado. From that perspective Colorado's 1st and 3rd is a perfectly good opening ask from Tampa for JT Miller. A 1st from Vancouver on the other hand is at a completely different level in value, and this was just another example of Jim Benning getting completely schooled in trade bartering.

 

[WHISTLERNATE]

Reminds me of the Kessel trade. Miller will help them push to a playoff spot but they are stills ways off from being a Stanley Cup contender. Losing draft picks and fast forwarding the rebuild and getting higher picks makes them a treadmill team year in and year out.

Kessel cost the Leafs Seguin. We are a long way from that at this point.

You do realize that most draft picks after the top 10 don't result in consistent .5ppg point players right?

2015 7/20
2014 3/20
2013 3/20
2012 3/20
2011 2/20 1 of them is JT Miller

18 out of 100 players drafted from 2011-2015, who should be fully developed by now, have consistently hit .5 PPG. 18%. This includes golaies and Dmen, and some guys who could still break out, so double it. 36%. We got one who will contribute this season and is on a very good contract for the next for the next 4 years.

Barring an implosion of our developing young players, or some incredibly bad lottery luck, this deal is far more likely than not going to work in the Canucks favor. Tbay got what they wanted as well, so seems like a good deal all around at this point.

 

[RandV]

Kessel cost the Leafs Seguin. We are a long way from that at this point.

You do realize that most draft picks after the top 10 don't result in consistent .5ppg point players right?

2015 7/20
2014 3/20
2013 3/20
2012 3/20
2011 2/20 1 of them is JT Miller

18 out of 100 players drafted from 2011-2015, who should be fully developed by now, have consistently hit .5 PPG. 18%. This includes golaies and Dmen, and some guys who could still break out, so double it. 36%. We got one who will contribute this season and is on a very good contract for the next for the next 4 years.

Barring an implosion of our developing young players, or some incredibly bad lottery luck, this deal is far more likely than not going to work in the Canucks favor. Tbay got what they wanted as well, so seems like a good deal all around at this point.

Dmen and the occasional goalie will skew your x/20 numbers, but really the key point here is that the trade value of a draft pick in no way correlates to the odds of what a draft pick may be. If this were the case you'd get a lot more Ryan Reeves for a 1st type trades.

 

[WTG]

The deal is a win for TB no matter what. It's a win for Vancouver if, with Miller's help, they turn things around before next year and the pick falls to 20th or later.

Congrats on your lottery pick.

 

[sting101]

The deal is a win for TB no matter what. It's a win for Vancouver if, with Miller's help, they turn things around before next year and the pick falls to 20th or later.

I think that is fair way to evaluate the trade

this pick is likely a 15-20

2015 - Senyshyn BARZAL CONNOR CHABOT Svechnikov ErikssonEk
2014 - LARKIN Milano SANHEIM Tuch DeAngelo Schmaltz
2013 - Pulock Lazar Zadorov Mueller Rychel Mantha
2012 - Ceci Wilson HERTL TERAVAINEN VASILEVSKI Laughton
2011 - Miller Armia Beaulieu McNeill Klefbom Murphy

A 25% chance its a better player
A 25% chance of a comparable player who wont be for another 4 to 5 yrs
A 50% chance you wait for 5 yrs to realise your pick is a bust or worse than Miller