Confirmed with Link: [VAN/SJ] Canucks acquire D Nick Cicek, 6th in ‘24 for F Jack Studnicka

[Wisp]

I’m starting to wonder if player movement and trades are a part of the calculation for Bonuses for this management team. If so they are going to have one heck of a year.

Rutherford has always run things this way. His front offices are always proactive and prepared to have trade conversations.

 

[MS]

I don't know that it's necessarily impatience. They added a 23-year old almost-NHL centre who had some attributes they wanted to add and wasn't finding playing time in Boston. Didn't work out, and they had other guys come on and pass him in the meantime, obviously, but it's not likely that they were making that trade because they'd given up on Myrenberg and just wanted to recoup something for him. It's rare that you're going to pickup a potential player that you like without moving anything of any value the other way, and sometimes you have to make those choices. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

If a year from now we're talking about all the dozens of Myrenbergs we've been bleeding for players that didn't pan out then sure, but at this point they made a choice and that's kind of how it goes - especially when you kind of have to try to fix every single thing at once.

And I don't think it was a bad risk to take on Studnicka and I don't really have a problem with the process there even though it didn't work out.

C who can skate are at a premium in this league and Studnicka seems like a good kid with a good attitude who was a plus skater with a bit of skill and you can see what they were thinking with him in terms of a guy who could re-profile into a bottom-6 C and maybe an opportunity and a fresh start could jumpstart him. And he'd have the odd shift or game where you were like 'there it is!' when he really competed and showed a motor but in the end he just seemed like too tentative/passive a player most of the time.

Game him a good look, didn't work out, still managed to recoup most of the value in the end.

 

[Cogburn]

We were winning before we traded Studnicka, and we lost after trading him away.

Bad trade, I hate it, boo Alvin, boo Rutherford, Cicek hasn't ridden in on a white horse and handed us a Cup.

 

[alternate]

Studnicka was useful organizational depth and would likely be higher up the forward depth chart than Cicek will be on the blueline.

But still no issues with the trade. Appreciate the FO shuffling pieces and turning one asset into 2. And probably fits the immediate needs of the farm better as well.

 

[dwarf]

We lost our stud. Good thing this is not horse racing.

 

[Wry n Ginger]

Stealth edit

 

[VanJack]

The key to the trade was acquiring another pick. Eases the sting of the salary cap dumps for Beauvillier and Pearson, that cost them picks.

So anything they can recover for a guy who was nothing more than organizational 'depth' is well worth the price.

Cicek is a bit of a wildcard, but that sixth rounder might be the equivalent of a mid-range fifth, given how bad the Sharks are likely to be in the standings this season..

 

[F A N]

I don't know that it's necessarily impatience. They added a 23-year old almost-NHL centre who had some attributes they wanted to add and wasn't finding playing time in Boston. Didn't work out, and they had other guys come on and pass him in the meantime, obviously, but it's not likely that they were making that trade because they'd given up on Myrenberg and just wanted to recoup something for him. It's rare that you're going to pickup a potential player that you like without moving anything of any value the other way, and sometimes you have to make those choices. Nothing ventured nothing gained.

If a year from now we're talking about all the dozens of Myrenbergs we've been bleeding for players that didn't pan out then sure, but at this point they made a choice and that's kind of how it goes - especially when you kind of have to try to fix every single thing at once.

To be clear I didn't say it's necessarily impatience. I think it is fair to say that they didn't place a high value on Myrenberg because Studnicka really shouldn't/didn't have much trade value. I have no issues taking a stab at Studnicka. But perception and scouting matter. Was Studnicka a 23-year old almost NHL centre who needed playing time and opportunity or was he a 23 year old prospect whose development has stalled and was headed for waivers when he's eligible. Is Myrenberg a late round pick who is very likely to bust or a 6'3" RHD with skill whose stock has risen since being drafted? If you lean one way more the value proposition is different. To me, you shouldn't trade a D prospect like Myrenberg for someone like Studnicka unless you really don't like Myrenberg and pretty confident he's not going to amount to much.

And I don't think it was a bad risk to take on Studnicka and I don't really have a problem with the process there even though it didn't work out.

C who can skate are at a premium in this league and Studnicka seems like a good kid with a good attitude who was a plus skater with a bit of skill and you can see what they were thinking with him in terms of a guy who could re-profile into a bottom-6 C and maybe an opportunity and a fresh start could jumpstart him. And he'd have the odd shift or game where you were like 'there it is!' when he really competed and showed a motor but in the end he just seemed like too tentative/passive a player most of the time.

Whether you have a problem with the process all comes down with your perception of the players no?

I don't think "C who can skate are at a premium". They need to be able to play and Studnicka hasn't shown much of that since about two years prior to the trade. There's an old article about Studnicka gaining 15lbs of muscle over the 2021 summer. I have no idea whether he was a beanpole when he was in juniors but it seems like it's the same story over and over again. Two years later we are still talking about how Studnicka gained size and strength over the summer.

The whole C thing is a discussion in of itself. At the time of the trade Bruins appeared to have determined that Studnicka was a C and can't play wing. When he got here, Studnicka spent most of his time centered by Aman. He wasn't seen as a C at all and didn't get an opportunity to be a C here even with injuries to one of "Pew"/Blueger.

 

[Vector]

Can’t believe we traded a 3rd line C for a 6th and AHLer.

 

[RobertKron]

The key to the trade was acquiring another pick. Eases the sting of the salary cap dumps for Beauvillier and Pearson, that cost them picks.

So anything they can recover for a guy who was nothing more than organizational 'depth' is well worth the price.

Cicek is a bit of a wildcard, but that sixth rounder might be the equivalent of a mid-range fifth, given how bad the Sharks are likely to be in the standings this season..

How can a sixth-rounder be “the equivalent of a mid-range fifth?” Regardless of how bad the sharks are this season, I’m pretty sure they still won’t start the sixth round until after the fifth is done.

 

[MS]

Whether you have a problem with the process all comes down with your perception of the players no?

I don't think "C who can skate are at a premium". They need to be able to play and Studnicka hasn't shown much of that since about two years prior to the trade. There's an old article about Studnicka gaining 15lbs of muscle over the 2021 summer. I have no idea whether he was a beanpole when he was in juniors but it seems like it's the same story over and over again. Two years later we are still talking about how Studnicka gained size and strength over the summer.

The whole C thing is a discussion in of itself. At the time of the trade Bruins appeared to have determined that Studnicka was a C and can't play wing. When he got here, Studnicka spent most of his time centered by Aman. He wasn't seen as a C at all and didn't get an opportunity to be a C here even with injuries to one of "Pew"/Blueger.

Of course C who can skate are at a premium. Almost every team in the NHL is looking for better C depth and guys who are close to PPG in the AHL and have wheels don't grow on trees.

And again, you can see what they were looking at in terms of the skillset there and the role they thought maybe he could reprofile into. But he seems to suffer from Kravtsov-itis in that he's just not an assertive player and seemed to be 'trying not to make mistakes' in the NHL instead of keeping his feet moving and trying to dictate play. He's have shifts where he did the right thing but just couldn't do it consistently.

And literally as I'm typing this he finishes a borderline check hard on Cogliano and Cogliano needs help off the ice. If he did more of that he'd still be here.

 

[elitepete]

The ppl complaining about this trade are crazy. We have Pod, Aman, Dries, Bains, Karlsson, Raty, Nielsen that we can call up. We get a similar player at a position of need and a 6th. Studnicka gets an opportunity on a team where he has a better chance of being in the NHL.

 

[RobertKron]

Of course C who can skate are at a premium. Almost every team in the NHL is looking for better C depth and guys who are close to PPG in the AHL and have wheels don't grow on trees.

And again, you can see what they were looking at in terms of the skillset there and the role they thought maybe he could reprofile into. But he seems to suffer from Kravtsov-itis in that he's just not an assertive player and seemed to be 'trying not to make mistakes' in the NHL instead of keeping his feet moving and trying to dictate play. He's have shifts where he did the right thing but just couldn't do it consistently.

And literally as I'm typing this he finishes a borderline check hard on Cogliano and Cogliano needs help off the ice. If he did more of that he'd still be here.

I think there's reasonably similar odds for him to hang around the league as a bad-team player for the next five years as there are for him to start next year in the Swiss league. It's not like this is a guy who was just blatantly way out there.

 

[m9]

The ppl complaining about this trade are crazy. We have Pod, Aman, Dries, Bains, Karlsson, Raty, Nielsen that we can call up. We get a similar player at a position of need and a 6th. Studnicka gets an opportunity on a team where he has a better chance of being in the NHL.

Whose complaining?

 

[MS]

I think there's reasonably similar odds for him to hang around the league as a bad-team player for the next five years as there are for him to start next year in the Swiss league. It's not like this is a guy who was just blatantly way out there.

For sure.

He's a guy who is close to being an NHLer. I think the tools are there and he seems like a character guy and it's just a matter of opportunity and whether he can flick a switch and play a higher compete/less tentative game.

You look at a guy like Ryan Carpenter who has hung around the NHL for 10 years and I don't think it's a big stretch at all for Studnicka to have that sort of career as a useful bottom-6 C.

I'm cheering for him, in any case.

 

[I am toxic]

Pretty sure Alvin acquired Nickolaus Cicek just because it's an anagram of Jason Studnicka.

 

[F A N]

Of course C who can skate are at a premium. Almost every team in the NHL is looking for better C depth and guys who are close to PPG in the AHL and have wheels don't grow on trees.

Ok. Name a few “C who can skate” with Studnicka’s stats/offensive production who were traded for a premium? It’s not like Studnicka projected to be a big defensive C type. Could Studnicka play more like Lafferty? Sure but he naturally doesn’t and Lafferty was hardly ever traded for a premium.

And again, you can see what they were looking at in terms of the skillset there and the role they thought maybe he could reprofile into. But he seems to suffer from Kravtsov-itis in that he's just not an assertive player and seemed to be 'trying not to make mistakes' in the NHL instead of keeping his feet moving and trying to dictate play. He's have shifts where he did the right thing but just couldn't do it consistently.

And literally as I'm typing this he finishes a borderline check hard on Cogliano and Cogliano needs help off the ice. If he did more of that he'd still be here.

But the issue is that what the Canucks got from Studnicka and Kratvsov were exactly the players that were on display for their previous teams. And again it’s not like the Canucks gave Studnicka an opportunity at C either. They mostly played him on the wing which was a position he struggled in as a Bruin.

 

[MS]

Ok. Name a few “C who can skate” with Studnicka’s stats/offensive production who were traded for a premium? It’s not like Studnicka projected to be a big defensive C type. Could Studnicka play more like Lafferty? Sure but he naturally doesn’t and Lafferty was hardly ever traded for a premium.



But the issue is that what the Canucks got from Studnicka and Kratvsov were exactly the players that were on display for their previous teams. And again it’s not like the Canucks gave Studnicka an opportunity at C either. They mostly played him on the wing which was a position he struggled in as a Bruin.

I'm not really sure what you're taking issue with.

He plays a premium position, skates well, had good AHL production but was stuck in a pretty deep organization.

They took a shot on him, didn't work out, and then they still recouped most of the value in the end.

I think it was a worthwhile shot (and like I said above, I won't be surprised if he does figure it out and manage to stick in the NHL elsewhere) and the whole series of transactions was asset-managed well.

He played about 50% C and 50% wing here, for the record.

 

[F A N]

I'm not really sure what you're taking issue with.

He plays a premium position, skates well, had good AHL production but was stuck in a pretty deep organization.

Why avoid the question? Name a few “C who can skate” with Studnica’s stats/offensive production who were traded for a premium? The guy’s development was stalled for 2+ years. Usually you write these prospects off instead of thinking that they are worth a premium.

They took a shot on him, didn't work out, and then they still recouped most of the value in the end.

Getting an asset back is A+ but he was available to be picked up on waivers twice.

I think it was a worthwhile shot (and like I said above, I won't be surprised if he does figure it out and manage to stick in the NHL elsewhere) and the whole series of transactions was asset-managed well.

He played about 50% C and 50% wing here, for the record.

I thought it was a worthwhile shot too (but I am a sucker for prospects and reclamation projects) but didn’t like giving up Myrenberg.

Did he play 50% C here? Honestly didn’t notice him doing much.

 

[MS]

Why avoid the question? Name a few “C who can skate” with Studnica’s stats/offensive production who were traded for a premium? The guy’s development was stalled for 2+ years. Usually you write these prospects off instead of thinking that they are worth a premium.



Getting an asset back is A+ but he was available to be picked up on waivers twice.



I thought it was a worthwhile shot too (but I am a sucker for prospects and reclamation projects) but didn’t like giving up Myrenberg.

Did he play 50% C here? Honestly didn’t notice him doing much.

I mean, Lias Andersson for a 2nd recently stands out. Jimbo once paid a 2nd for Linden Vey at the same development point and Vey was small and couldn't skate.

But my point wasn't that they got some sort of bargain on him. I think they probably paid a fair price. My point is that the team had ZERO C depth at a high-value/hard to find talent position and when you look at Studnicka's age/skillset he was a reasonable target. And I think he's still a reasonable target for SJ, even now.

Not every move hits and works out. But I think this was a reasonable buy at a reasonable price to try adding some depth at a position of weakness, and they ended up managing the asset well. Just an incredible difference from Jim Benning who paid 2nd and 3rds for this type of asset and then doubled down on contract extensions before releasing them for nothing after years of crap play.

 

[VanJack]

We were winning before we traded Studnicka, and we lost after trading him away.

Bad trade, I hate it, boo Alvin, boo Rutherford, Cicek hasn't ridden in on a white horse and handed us a Cup.

Just realized that Studnicka had to clear waivers before being sent to Abbotsford. So he was available to any NHL team, including the Sharks, who passed.

Mystifyingly they traded another prospect and a sixth rounder for a guy they could have had for nothing. I guess they had their reasons.....but in retrospect the Canucks were lucky to get anything for Studnicka.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Can’t believe we traded a 3rd line C for a 6th and AHLer.

Also let a first pairing D hit free agency

 

[F A N]

I mean, Lias Andersson for a 2nd recently stands out. Jimbo once paid a 2nd for Linden Vey at the same development point and Vey was small and couldn't skate.

I think the "premium" paid for Andersson was the fact that he was a former top 10 pick. Like you said, Vey couldn't skate so that's not an example of a "C who could skate" being traded for a premium. Vey was also better than Studnica offensively at the AHL level at time of trade.

But my point wasn't that they got some sort of bargain on him. I think they probably paid a fair price. My point is that the team had ZERO C depth at a high-value/hard to find talent position and when you look at Studnicka's age/skillset he was a reasonable target.

Again, that wasn't what I disagreed with. But in response to your point, the Canucks also had ZERO RHD depth aside from Woo so it's not like the Canucks were trading from a position of strength.

 

[MS]

I think the "premium" paid for Andersson was the fact that he was a former top 10 pick. Like you said, Vey couldn't skate so that's not an example of a "C who could skate" being traded for a premium. Vey was also better than Studnica offensively at the AHL level at time of trade.


Again, that wasn't what I disagreed with. But in response to your point, the Canucks also had ZERO RHD depth aside from Woo so it's not like the Canucks were trading from a position of strength.

Jesus, who pissed in your cornflakes the past couple days?

Studnicka actually being in the NHL is a totally different sort of depth than a 19 year old 5th round pick who is years from even coming to NA.

You're moving the goalposts on Andersson and, again, nobody was even talking about 'paying premiums' in the first place.

 

[elitepete]

Whose complaining?

go to the first few pages