Confirmed with Link: [VAN/MTL] Zack Kassian + 5th round pick for Brandon Prust | Pt. 2

[Reign Nateo]

I am one of Kassian's biggest supporters, he cracks me up, but I can see why they made this deal, still not a big fan of it though. Kassian's back is quite obviously not good and I think that's a big part of this trade. Also, he just doesn't seem into the games most of the time and can be invisible for long periods of time. He's had stretches where he looked great, then disappears and makes mistakes. I think he back had a lot to do with it. Prust is a great guy to have on your team and will be a fan favorite.

However, I still don't think this trade is the right move, even though it's grown on me a bit. The team needs to be realistic about where they stand in the Western Conference. Which is not among the elite. If they are "re-tooling" or "rebuilding" or whatever they are doing, sitting on a guy like Kassian and accumulating draft picks seems like the more prudent move to me. Prust is a great guy to have around and will have a positive impact on the team, but doesn't accomplish anything long term for the team. Unless of course he's flipped for a pick at the deadline which is far from a lock to happen.

The business about not wanting to trade him within the West is ridiculous too. If there was a better return to be had in the West he should have been dealt there. Again, the team needs to think long-term here. We're not competing any time soon and if you're trading him because he has a bad back what are you afraid of? If you're afraid of trading a young player, you should no be trading that player for veteran 4th liners.

 

[arsmaster*]

I am one of Kassian's biggest supporters, he cracks me up, but I can see why they made this deal, still not a big fan of it though. Kassian's back is quite obviously not good and I think that's a big part of this trade. Also, he just doesn't seem into the games most of the time and can be invisible for long periods of time. He's had stretches where he looked great, then disappears and makes mistakes. I think he back had a lot to do with it. Prust is a great guy to have on your team and will be a fan favorite.

However, I still don't think this trade is the right move, even though it's grown on me a bit. The team needs to be realistic about where they stand in the Western Conference. Which is not among the elite. If they are "re-tooling" or "rebuilding" or whatever they are doing, sitting on a guy like Kassian and accumulating draft picks seems like the more prudent move to me. Prust is a great guy to have around and will have a positive impact on the team, but doesn't accomplish anything long term for the team. Unless of course he's flipped for a pick at the deadline which is far from a lock to happen.

The business about not wanting to trade him within the West is ridiculous too. If there was a better return to be had in the West he should have been dealt there. Again, the team needs to think long-term here. We're not competing any time soon and if you're trading him because he has a bad back what are you afraid of? If you're afraid of trading a young player, you should no be trading that player for veteran 4th liners.

They're afraid they'd have to play him 6 times a year and he'd beat the piss out of their tough guys.

 

[tantalum]

They're afraid they'd have to play him 6 times a year and he'd beat the piss out of their tough guys.

There is simply no consistency of applied logic with this management team. This is a case of GMing like a fan.

"ooo I like that guy. He plays with energy! He completes his checks! let's get him!"

"Well he's 30 some odd years old sir, only a 4th line player who will not be a deciding factor in any game. I'm not saying we don't look to acquire him but to me he'd be a replacement for the other winger we have penciled in on the 4th line."

"You're fired Lawrence."

 

[arsmaster*]

There is simply no consistency of applied logic with this management team. This is a case of GMing like a fan.

"ooo I like that guy. He plays with energy! He completes his checks! let's get him!"

"Well he's 30 some odd years old sir, only a 4th line player who will not be a deciding factor in any game. I'm not saying we don't look to acquire him but to me he'd be a replacement for the other winger we have penciled in on the 4th line."

"You're fired Lawrence."

It's likely why Kassian got moved East as well. I can't see Chiarelli not being all over him with the Oilers.

But Jim Benning wants to hide these guys from the market, assuming we don't watch highlights. If Kassian and Lack only play in our barn once next year, we'll just forget about them.

 

[Canadienna]

just got back from vacation so i'm a bit out of the loop.

wow, surprised they found any takers at all for kassian. thank-you montreal.

prust is a good pick-up. giving up a fifth sucks but zack apparently had little to no value throughout the league. time to wake up and smell the coffee zack...you're not as good as you think you are.

i'm afraid to read the thread. gonna guess it's filled with how can they trade youth for an older player posts

No, thank YOU!

Kassian has his problems, but he had over twice the goals in half the games of Prust. And he's a great character.

This was a skill for leadership trade, and I genuinely hope it works out for both teams. I don't think anyone got hosed.

 

[carolinacanuck]

No, thank YOU!

Kassian has his problems, but he had over twice the goals in half the games of Prust. And he's a great character.

This was a skill for leadership trade, and I genuinely hope it works out for both teams. I don't think anyone got hosed.

if this was a skill for leadership trade, why are you referencing the amount of goals kass had versus prust?

i might as well reference how much leadership prust showed in relation to kassian.

kassian has character alright, i believe the name of his character is beaky buzzard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mKIuZ4tIzk

 

[Eddy Punch Clock]

I haven't logged on in a few days here and have pretty much put everything off my mind.

Then I see this thread title as I log on and I'm furious all over again.

I think I am going to have to put the majority of threads on ignore if I'm going to continue to come here.

 

[canucksfan]

It's likely why Kassian got moved East as well. I can't see Chiarelli not being all over him with the Oilers.

But Jim Benning wants to hide these guys from the market, assuming we don't watch highlights. If Kassian and Lack only play in our barn once next year, we'll just forget about them.

Not sure if they even shopped Kassian around near the draft though. They wanted Prust and whatever their original offer was, it was too low so they then offered Kassian and the Habs accepted.

 

[Ho Borvat]

Not sure if they even shopped Kassian around near the draft though. They wanted Prust and whatever their original offer was, it was too low so they then offered Kassian and the Habs accepted.

Its funny, I remember when the Baertschi trade happened, people assumed Kassian was going the other way... and fans on twitter were getting mad because they thought we were giving up Kassian.

Im really surprised they weren't able to recoupe a 2nd in a Kassian trade (considering thats what Baertschi went for and I would say they are two comparable prospects at this stage).

 

[canucksfan]

Its funny, I remember when the Baertschi trade happened, people assumed Kassian was going the other way... and fans on twitter were getting mad because they thought we were giving up Kassian.

Im really surprised they weren't able to recoupe a 2nd in a Kassian trade (considering thats what Baertschi went for and I would say they are two comparable prospects at this stage).

I would say Kassian has more value unless his back is screwed. Kassian has a rare blend of size and skill. He also has shown that he can be a good third line player at the NHL level something Baertschi has not shown.

There was nothing wrong with trading Kassian. If the Nucks cold have got back a high 2nd round pick or a fairly decent prospect then sure. However, taking on Prust makes no sense.

 

[VanJack]

Seems that a lot of posters on these boards have over-estimated Kassian's trade-value around the league....apparently he was shopped around the NHL universe, with no takers....I guess other teams have pro scouts too, who seem to have the book on this player....fact that all Benning could get was an injury-prone 31-year old banger on an expiring contract, and had to throw in a fifth rounder to boot, speaks volumes imo....really hope the guy figures it out in Montreal, but if Kassian was a polarizing figure in the Vancouver market, can only see it getting worse for him in the hockey-mad Montreal market....frankly I'm looking forward to seeing what guys like Virtanen, Grenier and Gaunce can do auditioning for his spot anyway.

 

[canucksfan]

Seems that a lot of posters on these boards have over-estimated Kassian's trade-value around the league....apparently he was shopped around the NHL universe, with no takers....I guess other teams have pro scouts too, who seem to have the book on this player....fact that all Benning could get was an injury-prone 31-year old banger on an expiring contract, and had to throw in a fifth rounder to boot, speaks volumes imo....really hope the guy figures it out in Montreal, but if Kassian was a polarizing figure in the Vancouver market, can only see it getting worse for him in the hockey-mad Montreal market....frankly I'm looking forward to seeing what guys like Virtanen, Grenier and Gaunce can do auditioning for his spot anyway.

First of all we don't know if Kassian was shopped around at the draft. We do know that the Nucks targeted Prust. Their original offer was not good enough so they then offered Kassian and the Habs accepted. If this was the best we could get from Kassian due to low value then keep him and don't get rid of him.

Second, Kassian's spot will be given to Prust. Younger players are not competing for his spot. As it stands right now, the only young player making this team is Baertschi.

 

[Pip]

Seems that a lot of posters on these boards have over-estimated Kassian's trade-value around the league....apparently he was shopped around the NHL universe, with no takers....I guess other teams have pro scouts too, who seem to have the book on this player....fact that all Benning could get was an injury-prone 31-year old banger on an expiring contract, and had to throw in a fifth rounder to boot, speaks volumes imo....really hope the guy figures it out in Montreal, but if Kassian was a polarizing figure in the Vancouver market, can only see it getting worse for him in the hockey-mad Montreal market....frankly I'm looking forward to seeing what guys like Virtanen, Grenier and Gaunce can do auditioning for his spot anyway.

I take issue with the bolded. I do not believe that this was the most that Kassian could have retuned and I attribute the low return to the poor showcase this year of Kassian, Benning's poor negotiating skills, and the overvaluing of a player like Prust by this management.

 

[Ho Borvat]

I would say Kassian has more value unless his back is screwed. Kassian has a rare blend of size and skill. He also has shown that he can be a good third line player at the NHL level something Baertschi has not shown.

There was nothing wrong with trading Kassian. If the Nucks cold have got back a high 2nd round pick or a fairly decent prospect then sure. However, taking on Prust makes no sense.

Exactly, Kassian produced like a high end 3rd liner these past 2 seasons, while providing a lot of size/toughness to the lineup. He obviously had his warts, but he was a 24 year old who has averaged 27 points/82 games... whereas Prust has averaged 20 points/82 in his career.

Kassians last 2 years were both better PPG than Prusts career best year.

If Kassian needed to be traded.. thats fine. But the return is very suspect. Brett Connolly (worse start to his career) fetched 2x 2nd round picks at the deadline last year.

They really could have pimped out Kassian a bit better.

 

[Jyrki21]

apparently he was shopped around the NHL universe, with no takers....I guess other teams have pro scouts too, who seem to have the book on this player....

Then waive him. Or trade him for a pick. Don't pay another team to take on a better, younger, cheaper player from you.

For the record, the "book" on this player was a self-fulfilling prophecy from a coach who refused to play him. Pro scouts would have been wise to take note of the fact that he was productive when he was given offensive minutes.

 

[VanJack]

I take issue with the bolded. I do not believe that this was the most that Kassian could have retuned and I attribute the low return to the poor showcase this year of Kassian, Benning's poor negotiating skills, and the overvaluing of a player like Prust by this management.

Poor showcasing?....guy was given every opportunity by three different coaches...played with the Sedins where he had a bit of a run...but to quote Forrest Gump, guy was like a box of chocolates..you never knew what you were going to get...frankly I'm surprised the guy survived past last year's trade deadline, and so was he, to hear him interviewed at the time....no doubt the 'Nucks talked to everybody..and I agree that maybe that was the problem...everybody knew he was on the block...but the fact the guy was a former first rounder, was on an affordable entry-level contract, and an RFA to boot and still couldn't generate a decent return, is hard to rationalize or excuse, no matter who the GM was.

 

[skywarp75]

There is simply no consistency of applied logic with this management team. This is a case of GMing like a fan.

"ooo I like that guy. He plays with energy! He completes his checks! let's get him!"

"Well he's 30 some odd years old sir, only a 4th line player who will not be a deciding factor in any game. I'm not saying we don't look to acquire him but to me he'd be a replacement for the other winger we have penciled in on the 4th line."

"You're fired Lawrence."

this is amazing. someone needs to do a Benning Comic strip with these kind of conversations for each of his dumb moves.

 

[MS]

People still repeating this 'three coaches' garbage, as if Tortorella's time here didn't exist.

Again :

“Everybody wanted him on the top line, give him this, give him that. Not going to happen, at least with this coach,†said Tortorella.

“He has learned. He’s much better away from the puck, especially the past few weeks. I think he’s taken a huge step. Not just because of the numbers but just the way he’s handled himself as we’ve gone through here.â€

http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/...feel-i-can-be-a-lot-better-says-zack-kassian/

Under one of those coaches, he started slowly, saw improved performance and production and icetime through the season, and received substantial praise from that coach at the end of the season.

But that doesn't fit the narrative ... so yeah, 3 coaches hated him!

Kassian's career looked perfectly on track until the coaches/management here decided they didn't like how he played and tried turning him into Lucic.

 

[Pip]

Poor showcasing?....guy was given every opportunity by three different coaches...played with the Sedins where he had a bit of a run...but to quote Forrest Gump, guy was like a box of chocolates..you never knew what you were going to get...frankly I'm surprised the guy survived past last year's trade deadline, and so was he, to hear him interviewed at the time....no doubt the 'Nucks talked to everybody..and I agree that maybe that was the problem...everybody knew he was on the block...but the fact the guy was a former first rounder, was on an affordable entry-level contract, and an RFA to boot and still couldn't generate a decent return, is hard to rationalize or excuse, no matter who the GM was.

They did showcase him poorly. He saw minimal PP time despite having a good skillset for it. Proven PP duds like Higgins and even Dorsett saw ample PP time.

Kassian played primarily bottom 6 minutes, was not really sheltered and during his best stretch of hockey he randomly got scratched for Brandon McMillan.

He was not put in a position to up his value.

 

[MS]

They did showcase him poorly. He saw minimal PP time despite having a good skillset for it. Proven PP duds like Higgins and even Dorsett saw ample PP time.

Kassian played primarily bottom 6 minutes, was not really sheltered and during his best stretch of hockey he randomly got scratched for Brandon McMillan.

He was not put in a position to up his value.

Yeah, the notion that he was 'given opportunity' by Willie is one of the most bizarre things I've ever read.

 

[Barney Gumble]

but the fact the guy was a former first rounder, was on an affordable entry-level contract, and an RFA to boot and still couldn't generate a decent return, is hard to rationalize or excuse, no matter who the GM was.

Yes it's hard to rationalize the move of Benning to *PAY* another team to take Kassian off our hands *AND* throw in a late draft pick - when he could've just put Kassian on waivers. (worst case scenario, Canucks KEEP the draft pick they gave up).

 

[topheavyhookjaw]

People still repeating this 'three coaches' garbage, as if Tortorella's time here didn't exist.

Again :



http://metronews.ca/news/vancouver/...feel-i-can-be-a-lot-better-says-zack-kassian/

Under one of those coaches, he started slowly, saw improved performance and production and icetime through the season, and received substantial praise from that coach at the end of the season.

But that doesn't fit the narrative ... so yeah, 3 coaches hated him!

Kassian's career looked perfectly on track until the coaches/management here decided they didn't like how he played and tried turning him into Lucic.

I see a player whose spurts of good play have often been de-railed by things outside of his control. Strong finish to a season, coach is fired and new management/regime tries to change his play. Start to play well with twins, suffer back injury.

I don't think Kassian will ever be a star, but I can see a productive middle six winger there for Montreal next year.

 

[Barney Gumble]

I don't think Kassian will ever be a star, but I can see a productive middle six winger there for Montreal next year.

Probably but even in that case he'll be a more productive player than Prust will be for the next few years (note: I'm not referring to the Prust that WAS a very effective player for the Habs before age/injuries/physical play which took it's toll on his body caught up with him).

 

[MS]

I see a player whose spurts of good play have often been de-railed by things outside of his control. Strong finish to a season, coach is fired and new management/regime tries to change his play. Start to play well with twins, suffer back injury.

I don't think Kassian will ever be a star, but I can see a productive middle six winger there for Montreal next year.

Yeah, he's been incredibly unlucky.

His suspension in 2013 set him back to start the season and left him playing catch-up.

Then he seems to click with a coach and that coach is fired.

Then he gets hurt 3 times in quick succession to start the 14-15 season.

Then his back problems flare up just as he's lighting it up with the Sedins.

 

[arsmaster*]

Yeah, he's been incredibly unlucky.

His suspension in 2013 set him back to start the season and left him playing catch-up.

Then he seems to click with a coach and that coach is fired.

Then he gets hurt 3 times in quick succession to start the 14-15 season.

Then his back problems flare up just as he's lighting it up with the Sedins.

He was lighting it up with Matthias before he even got the Sedin look.

Even this "given every opportunity" thing seems strange.

When the Canucks put him with the Twins coming out of the lockout he got to play with the twins, scored 5 goals and an assist over 8 games and got knocked off the line unceremoniously.

The kid has been yoyo'd around here for years. PP opportunities, sometimes on the Point.

When given the opportunity to play with skilled players he's produced. He produced without them too.

When played on the 1st unit PP it produced.

The idea that Linden Vey was more suited and had earned that 1st unit role is a steaming pile of BS. Having Kass there basically made it a 4 on 3 while Kass planted out front.

Benning was even pleased with this (see his direct quotes that I in the Eye has posted numerous times).