Confirmed with Link: [VAN/DET] Alex Biega for David Pope

[calnuck]

Prediction: mid-season as injuries hit, Benning will move a pick to get a replacement for Biega, & it will be a worse player on a worse contract.

All but guaranteed, isn't it? This happens every year

 

[Melvin]

But the results were not good and Hughes played 5 games and as a tandem started 84% of their shifts together in the offensive zone with the 1st line and still put up bad metrics.

The Luke Schenn love-fest that went on here last year was a perfect storm of eye test and just being happy it wasn't Gudbranson.

I Think it was almost entirely shock that he was so much better than Gudbranson, yeah.

 

[F A N]

The vast majority of drafted/signed prospects never see significant NHL time. That's just the way it is.

The point in spending time developing guys is getting the 1 guy in 10 who makes it. And the guys that don't allow you to fill up the numbers in Utica or maybe cover an emergency NHL callup at some point.

You don't 'have' to play guys just because you've developed them - you play them because they've earned it and can provide value to your team.

And we did give Brisebois games last year ... and he was way out of his depth in very soft minutes.

Sure and there are certainly players who are more deserving of NHL games and ice time but don't get the opportunity. That's just the way it is.

As for playing them, the goal in player development is to develop the player. Some players (although rare) develop into NHL players when they were nothing special at the AHL level. Some manage to take further strides after their cup of coffee at the NHL level.

 

[timw33]

Prediction: mid-season as injuries hit, Benning will move a pick to get a replacement for Biega, & it will be a worse player on a worse contract.

Just like how we were forced to reactively pay a 7th round pick just to get a warm body in net after trading Nilsson for a 6th lol.

 

[Hit the post]

Just like how we were forced to reactively pay a 7th round pick just to get a warm body in net after trading Nilsson for a 6th lol.

But Gillis!

 

[Bad Goalie]

Detroit sent kaski down today, so kept Biega on the big club..

What a boon that guy will be for the Griffins offensively. A 25-yr-0ld D-man who put up 51 pts in 59 games last year in the Liiga. It was good enough to lead his team in scoring and earn him league MVP honors. All that and he doesn't count as a veteran. Another team picking up an older, undrafted, experienced free agent out of Europe that doesn't meet veteran status. Been asking for years why the Canucks don't do this to help build a solid AHL roster without getting into veteran troubles. Toronto does it annually. Stevie Y did such with the Crunch as well. It only requires a good European scout or 2 to root them out.

They sent him back to the AHL and kept Biega in Detroit. Another case of keeping a guy in the AHL to grow his game. If he knocks it out of the park, Detroit might give him a call. However, that AHL roster is loaded and he's just one more to make it better. If he does such, look for the Wings to re-sign him next year to a better contract. Right now he is on the cheap with a 1-yr ELC contract. Real good farm management move.

This is the kind of experienced non vet d-man/center I was talking about this summer that the Comets could pick up. He played a year at NCAA Western Michigan so he Has played on the smaller NA rinks and Finland plays on a smaller ice surface than the rest of the European leagues.

 

[MS]

Sure and there are certainly players who are more deserving of NHL games and ice time but don't get the opportunity. That's just the way it is.

As for playing them, the goal in player development is to develop the player. Some players (although rare) develop into NHL players when they were nothing special at the AHL level. Some manage to take further strides after their cup of coffee at the NHL level.

As you say ... rare. Purging your proven depth and then hoping for a rare occurrence to happen to cover that depth is not good management.

 

[Shareefruck]

I'm just glad for Biega's sake that he gets to leave this cesspool of an organization. That guy will never be appreciated here by this group.

 

[RandV]

And I guess I'm saying, if you have a reasonable expectation that some are close (unsure whether they are completely ready) it is imperative for their development to test them at the next level.
Seems to me we've figured out our difference of opinion.

I pointed out on the main trade board already that this is the key point of distinction on whether you would think this is a bad move or not, whether the players in Utica are ready for NHL time or not.

Thing is though in recent years we've had a lot of examples with our forward group of guys pushing the limit and needing NHL ice time to show if they can make it or not like Goldobin or Gaunce, or more veteran players who've gotten their chance but shown their just top line AHL talent like Boucher or Kero. So on a scale how do our defensemen fit in here? Seems like they're somewhere between a Zack MacEwan at best but more Lind/Gadjovich guys at the AHL level. And it would be absurd if we had 12 NHL forwards and then the next 13-15 guys for call up were MacEwan/Lind/Gadjovich and management thought that was okay.

 

[Hit the post]

Prediction: mid-season as injuries hit, Benning will move a pick to get a replacement for Biega, & it will be a worse player on a worse contract.

How can I not take the word of Canada's greatest athlete.

 

[Get North]

People are acting like Benning isn't the person who brought Biega to the organization and then re-signed him. Benning actually drafted him too. The fact is, Benning had to ask a GM to take Biega because he was available for free on waivers. It doesn't matter what the stats say, he literally has no value to GMs. I don't know why, he is a decent player, but I bet they felt comfortable with the defencemen on their roster. Maybe they have younger players who have potential, unlike a 31 year old Biega.

I just think people are reaching a little here, this isn't a McCann for Guddy trade. Value wasn't a significant factor, it was from a purely human perspective. The paper was examining David Pope as if management care about this player. Detroit wasn't going to trade a player they like for Biega, when they could have claimed for free.

It doesn't matter if Biega is a better player than Brisebois, Juolevi, etc. They are still seen as potential NHL defencemen in management's eyes, and NHL playing time is beneficial for their development to progress.

 

[iceburg]

But the risk of not developing younger players currently doesn't exist. There are no young players that have demonstrated that they are at a point where their development is being hampered by only getting AHL time. Far from it. They all have significant room to grow in the AHL yet. Nor does having Biega on the roster even prevent them from playing in the NHL...carry two extra D and only one extra useless forward. If someone is truly deserving of a look then you still sit Biega when a d-man gets put on the LTIR. If they perform you move Biega. As said by MS (I think) it is all putting the horse before the cart. Which is a trend with this management group. They judge their acquisitions to be far better than they actually are.

Clearly there are players that they believe are ready to make a move. Whether we agree or not is a little irrelevant. Biega was excised because they believe that Rafferty, brisboise, teves, and Juolevi need a chance. The debate over whether they are right is a separate question and analysis.

 

[iceburg]

I don't think you understand, that's why people keep responding.

Two guys still have to go down to get any of these "prospects" into the lineup.....the team knows that Biega can move up in a pinch. Like I said, if they hadn't signed a 32 year old #6 and Fantenberg this summer your argument might hold water, but it doesn't.

To develop those young players, like you're talking about, wouldn't they have to play? They're still not going to play until 2 dmen go down at the same time. And like people have said, it makes tons more sense to park the 31 year old in the presser than 23-25 year old Sautner/Brisebois/Rafferty.

I think where others also disagree is that you're calling Biega a veteran who can fill in for short stints....to me he's a bonafide bottom pairing guy, outproduced everyone but Edler per game last season, and should've been used as the #5 all season....heck, all they needed was 7 or 8 more points to get in...they might've actually had a shot if they hadn't type cast Biega and handed opportunity after opportunity to Gudbranson and Pouliot.

First, please don’t tell me whether or not I understand. It’s $$@$ condescending and it’s well beneath worthy of a response. Learn to discuss without disparaging.
Second, the team used like 10 or 11 D men last year. Biega was clearly limiting nhl time for the players beneath him in the depth chart.

 

[tantalum]

Clearly there are players that they believe are ready to make a move. Whether we agree or not is a little irrelevant. Biega was excised because they believe that Rafferty, brisboise, teves, and Juolevi need a chance. The debate over whether they are right is a separate question and analysis.

Whether we agree or not is the purpose of a discussion board. Otherwise every discussion would end with “well clearly they think it’s a good move so what we think is irrelevant”

I’m not sure what question you think people are answering if not the question of whether or not they are correct.

 

[iceburg]

Whether we agree or not is the purpose of a discussion board. Otherwise every discussion would end with “well clearly they think it’s a good move so what we think is irrelevant”

I’m not sure what question you think people are answering if not the question of whether or not they are correct.

I was pointing out whether we agree or not with management, not between posters. Apologies for the lack of clarity.

 

[4Twenty]

First, please don’t tell me whether or not I understand. It’s $$@$ condescending and it’s well beneath worthy of a response. Learn to discuss without disparaging.
Second, the team used like 10 or 11 D men last year. Biega was clearly limiting nhl time for the players beneath him in the depth chart.

Probably time to put me on ignore. You can’t read my posts without insinuating my tone.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with suggesting you weren’t understanding something . That’s why people kept discussing it with you. I didn’t say you were in capable.

Biega didn’t block anybody last year. He didn’t get into the lineup regularly until the whole blue line was banged up and others were traded.

Again Biega as your 7 blocks absolutely nobody. An injury to the top 6 and you call up a kid and play him ahead of Biega. The spot he would hold on this roster is press box seat warmer and that’s oodles better than an echler.

 

[Megaterio Llamas]

Clearly there are players that they believe are ready to make a move. Whether we agree or not is a little irrelevant. Biega was excised because they believe that Rafferty, brisboise, teves, and Juolevi need a chance. The debate over whether they are right is a separate question and analysis.

The problem is that none of the four are ready for regular NHL deployment. Fact is, absent Biega, Ashton Sautner is the only available defenceman in Utica able to be summoned to replace injured Canuck D and sort of handle NHL level play. This is not to say the young kids don't have that potential, just not now. Raffery and Breezy might be getting there, but they aren't there yet.

This trade will necessitate the surrendering of assets to find adequate help when injuries hit the blueline as they surely will. Alex should have been told to stay put, or even better,retained as the eighth D from the start. It's another case of Jim Benning being too nice a guy for management.

 

[RobertKron]

First, please don’t tell me whether or not I understand. It’s $$@$ condescending and it’s well beneath worthy of a response. Learn to discuss without disparaging.
Second, the team used like 10 or 11 D men last year. Biega was clearly limiting nhl time for the players beneath him in the depth chart.

You realize that management is allowed to just play other players instead of Biega if they determine that those guys are ready, right?

 

[VanJack]

So Biega has already been recalled by the Wings. I really hope it makes it impossible for them to take him out of the lineup.

When you grasp the fact that this guy actually played behind Del Zotto, Hutton, Gudbranson and Pouliot last season and couldn't get out of the pressbox, it doesn't reflect well on the Canucks coaching staff.

 

[megatron]

People are acting like Benning isn't the person who brought Biega to the organization and then re-signed him. Benning actually drafted him too.

I dont see how this is too relevant. To me its inconsequential if Benning/Burke/Nonis/Gillis had drafted him or not.

The fact is, Benning had to ask a GM to take Biega because he was available for free on waivers. It doesn't matter what the stats say, he literally has no value to GMs. I don't know why, he is a decent player, but I bet they felt comfortable with the defencemen on their roster. Maybe they have younger players who have potential, unlike a 31 year old Biega.

Benning did not *have* to ask a GM to take Biega. He could have kept him and use him when the inevitable injuries start. If Beiega doesnt slot in for some reason, no problem he is a UFA at the end of the season. Let him go where he wants at that point.
Also Im not sure if you are aware of the nuances, but Biega's value actually increased marginally when he cleared waivers. He doesnt have to clear waivers if he gets sent down again. Granted its a marginal benefit, but these are the type of shrewd moves a GM like Yzerman would navigate. Plus he got rid of a useless contract* (as opposed to lets say giving up a 4th rounder for him before he hits waivers *wink *wink)

It doesn't matter if Biega is a better player than Brisebois, Juolevi, etc. They are still seen as potential NHL defencemen in management's eyes, and NHL playing time is beneficial for their development to progress.

I have no problems with this line of thinking **IF** the canucks were rebuilding. Sure no problem you want to trial rafferty during the regular season sure, you want to play goldobin 20 minutes a game on the first line and give him PP time-sure... ***IF they were rebuilding. But please pay attention to the details Benning just gave up a lucrative first rounder and his team is cap maxed, they are in a win now mode. So given this context it makes no sense to get rid of Biega in favour of the vastly inferior projects in Utica.

 

[F A N]

As you say ... rare. Purging your proven depth and then hoping for a rare occurrence to happen to cover that depth is not good management.

You're missing the point. Like I said, you can fill that depth role in a number of ways. It doesn't have to type of proven depth you're talking here. It can be young players that the team wants to get more looks at. Just because you disagree doesn't mean it's bad management.

 

[PuckMunchkin]

You're missing the point. Like I said, you can fill that depth role in a number of ways. It doesn't have to type of proven depth you're talking here. It can be young players that the team wants to get more looks at. Just because you disagree doesn't mean it's bad management.

They cant look at the players with Biega around, and if they fail, Biega gets the call?

 

[Get North]

I dont see how this is too relevant. To me its inconsequential if Benning/Burke/Nonis/Gillis had drafted him or not.

Benning did not *have* to ask a GM to take Biega. He could have kept him and use him when the inevitable injuries start. If Beiega doesnt slot in for some reason, no problem he is a UFA at the end of the season. Let him go where he wants at that point.
Also Im not sure if you are aware of the nuances, but Biega's value actually increased marginally when he cleared waivers. He doesnt have to clear waivers if he gets sent down again. Granted its a marginal benefit, but these are the type of shrewd moves a GM like Yzerman would navigate. Plus he got rid of a useless contract* (as opposed to lets say giving up a 4th rounder for him before he hits waivers *wink *wink)



I have no problems with this line of thinking **IF** the canucks were rebuilding. Sure no problem you want to trial rafferty during the regular season sure, you want to play goldobin 20 minutes a game on the first line and give him PP time-sure... ***IF they were rebuilding. But please pay attention to the details Benning just gave up a lucrative first rounder and his team is cap maxed, they are in a win now mode. So given this context it makes no sense to get rid of Biega in favour of the vastly inferior projects in Utica.

The whole point of the trade was so Biega could play on a NHL roster immediately not wait for injuries otherwise he would still be here. Detroit has Biega on their NHL roster according to capfriendly, so the fact that Biega cleared waivers is not evidence of his value increasing.

It's naive to think that the Canucks should be solely focused on making the playoffs while sacrificing the prospects development. Our young defencemen aren't going to become better NHL players with more and more Utica games. There comes a point where they need playing time in the NHL regardless if they are worse players than Biega right now.

Rafferty and Brisebois are actually not far off relative to prospects in the same draft range as them. Look around the league and they aren't tracking far off from prospects like Tucker Poolman, Connor Clifton. We should look at these guys as legitimate prospects ready to break in.

 

[CanucksMJL]

I always thought Biega was underutilized. I think he is an incredibly versatile player that can play D and F. I hope he is happy with his new team.

As for the Canucks and this trade? Stevey Y owes us a solid. I hope that pandering to the old boys club with moves like this and not making a big stink about the Luongo cap bullshit somehow pays dividends down the line.

 

[Peter10]

The whole point of the trade was so Biega could play on a NHL roster immediately not wait for injuries otherwise he would still be here. Detroit has Biega on their NHL roster according to capfriendly, so the fact that Biega cleared waivers is not evidence of his value increasing.

It's naive to think that the Canucks should be solely focused on making the playoffs while sacrificing the prospects development. Our young defencemen aren't going to become better NHL players with more and more Utica games. There comes a point where they need playing time in the NHL regardless if they are worse players than Biega right now.

Rafferty and Brisebois are actually not far off relative to prospects in the same draft range as them. Look around the league and they aren't tracking far off from prospects like Tucker Poolman, Connor Clifton. We should look at these guys as legitimate prospects ready to break in.

Calling 24 year olds like Rafferty and Clifton prospects is already a stretch but Tucker Poolman is 26 years old. By that definition guys like Baertschi and Gudbranson just left prospect status last year.