Speculation: Value of Tobias Enstrom

[KingBogo]

IMO Toby is not the guy you move.

 

[VictoriaJetsFan]

He has proven he can stay healthy?

He has been healthy this year, logs alot of minutes....I am prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt..

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

They are paying him about 2x his real value so they can't trade him without picking up a substantial portion of his salary through end of contract. Therefore they won't trade him.

 

[theamazingchris]

His value is that of any top pairing d-man; high. However his value on the jets is astronomically higher. Our LD depth without him is alarming.

 

[YetAnotherGM]

They are paying him about 2x his real value so they can't trade him without picking up a substantial portion of his salary through end of contract. Therefore they won't trade him.

[mod]

The least you can do show reasons/data points to support your arugments.

Who has been our steadiest D-man this season?

 

[hockeyarena]

Enstrom doesn't have a family here, I doubt he would veto a trade to stay.

His contract is awful. I think a top 6, 1st pick, and prospect is a massive stretch due to the contract. I bet we get a mid to late 1st rounder and a prospect for him. Think we'd move Buff first though.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Just my opinion. Small defenseman, has trouble with size in the corners. His plus / minus is not terrible at minus single digits but guys like ellerby / trouba / bogo aren't on the minus side. On pace for about a 25 or 30 point season. Based on this in my opinion His contract is too rich for other clubs. Sounds more like a 2.5 - 3.5m dman.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Oops. Missed the other question. I don't get all the jets games in so flo so I have only seen about 8 or 10 games. From what I saw I think bogo is steadiest in the games he has played.

 

[Romang67]

Just my opinion. Small defenseman, has trouble with size in the corners. His plus / minus is not terrible at minus single digits but guys like ellerby / trouba / bogo aren't on the minus side. On pace for about a 25 or 30 point season. Based on this in my opinion His contract is too rich for other clubs. Sounds more like a 2.5 - 3.5m dman.

Ugh...

 

[YetAnotherGM]

Oops. Missed the other question. I don't get all the jets games in so flo so I have only seen about 8 or 10 games

Then you might want to see what other posters have to say about his play this year. I realize some people cannot look beyond his size ....

. From what I saw I think bogo is steadiest in the games he has played.

I hope you are kidding.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

It's tough to be a newbie on this forum.

Note to self - don't express an opinion unless you have seen all the games. Instead, adopt the opinions of others.

Seriously though - I admit I am not a stats guy, but the post was about Toby and his trade value. Am I the only guy that believes that the jets can't deal Toby unless we are willing to pick up a portion of his contract? Is that opinion invalid without stats to back it up?

Tough crowd here.

Go Jets Go!

 

[Positive]

It's tough to be a newbie on this forum.

Note to self - don't express an opinion unless you have seen all the games. Instead, adopt the opinions of others.

Seriously though - I admit I am not a stats guy, but the post was about Toby and his trade value. Am I the only guy that believes that the jets can't deal Toby unless we are willing to pick up a portion of his contract? Is that opinion invalid without stats to back it up?

Tough crowd here.

Go Jets Go!

People are pretty surly when the Jets rollercoaster is heading down.

Anyways, Toby is an underrated defenseman IMHO. Cool under pressure, good skater, good puck mover. Rarely gives away free pizzas and despite his size makes forwards work to beat him; nothing is for free. That being said, I still wish there wasn't quite that much money tied up in him.

 

[JetsHomer]

Enstrom is probably top ~20-25 at his position in the league, having 5.75 tied up to him is not a problem. He's by far our best defensemen at actually playing defence.

 

[garret9]

I love doing this... let's compare pro-level d-men depth for handedness that rights are owned or signed past this year...

RHD:
Byfuglien
Bogosian
Trouba (only putting below Bogosian due to experience)
Postma
Redmond
Kichton

LHD:
Enstrom
Clitsome
Ellerby
Kulda
Melchiori
Chiarot
Sol


"One of these things is not like the others"

wow... I know you don't have a soft spot for Stuart, but he doesn't even make the list!

You missed an important part in the original post:

that rights are owned or signed past this year...

 

[wpgsilver]

It's tough to be a newbie on this forum.

Note to self - don't express an opinion unless you have seen all the games. Instead, adopt the opinions of others.

Seriously though - I admit I am not a stats guy, but the post was about Toby and his trade value. Am I the only guy that believes that the jets can't deal Toby unless we are willing to pick up a portion of his contract? Is that opinion invalid without stats to back it up?

Tough crowd here.

Go Jets Go!

I think even Toby haters would disagree with this.
There are FAR worse contracts out there. Hell even on this team. Enstroms deal currently looks better than Bogo's.
There are things not to like about Toby, but he IS a first pairing player, and his deal reflects that.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Seriously though - I admit I am not a stats guy, but the post was about Toby and his trade value. Am I the only guy that believes that the jets can't deal Toby unless we are willing to pick up a portion of his contract? Is that opinion invalid without stats to back it up?

Try this: create a "Value Of" thread on the Trade Board, and see what other fans outside of the Jets fanbase have to say. That'd be a bit more partial, and give you a non-biased opinion of him.

And welcome, BTW!

 

[Positive]

Maybe I should instead say I sort of wish there wasn't so much money tied up in anyone right now.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Thanks.

Just want to clarify that I am not advocating trading Enstrom. He is too valuable to the jets and a lot of teams would love to have him. Defense is thin and buff moving up.

My whole point is that he ain't the $6m man IMHO. Talking trade value - no one will pay him that now. Maybe next year if he goes on a tear for the last half of the season and into next year, but not near term.

(Yes, I know he only makes $5.75m. Please don't flame me. I rounded off for effect.)

 

[wpgsilver]

Thanks.

Just want to clarify that I am not advocating trading Enstrom. He is too valuable to the jets and a lot of teams would love to have him. Defense is thin and buff moving up.

My whole point is that he ain't the $6m man IMHO. Talking trade value - no one will pay him that now. Maybe next year if he goes on a tear for the last half of the season and into next year, but not near term.

(Yes, I know he only makes $5.75m. Please don't flame me. I rounded off for effect.)

I think everyone got your point, we just disagree.
But that's what makes this place interesting.
Welcome aboard

Also how do you become a Jets fan living in so. Florida? Transplant or something more interesting.

 

[JetsHomer]

Thanks.

Just want to clarify that I am not advocating trading Enstrom. He is too valuable to the jets and a lot of teams would love to have him. Defense is thin and buff moving up.

My whole point is that he ain't the $6m man IMHO. Talking trade value - no one will pay him that now. Maybe next year if he goes on a tear for the last half of the season and into next year, but not near term.

(Yes, I know he only makes $5.75m. Please don't flame me. I rounded off for effect.)

In a world where Phaneuf makes 7m, PK Subban is about to be signed for 8m+, Braind Campbell makes 7m+, Enstrom really is a 6m dollar guy. His deal is not a steal by any means, but I would not be surprised to see Enstrom get a 6.5+ deal if he hit the open market. It's just the state of the NHL right now.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

I think everyone got your point, we just disagree.
But that's what makes this place interesting.
Welcome aboard

Also how do you become a Jets fan living in so. Florida? Transplant or something more interesting.

Thanks for the welcomes, guys. Transplant - nothing more interesting. Grew up in the peg during jets 1.0. Loved the hawerchuck years. In grade school, I used to listen to the jets post game shows on the radio turned down real low so mom wouldn't hear and make me turn it off - talking about school nights. Was living in fla when the jets moved to Phoenix - it still hurt even though I was here.

Maybe I'm not giving Enstrom enough credit. But I hate phaneuf and I think I would rather have him at 7 than Toby at 5 and change. I don't know.

 

[wpgsilver]

Thanks for the welcomes, guys. Transplant - nothing more interesting. Grew up in the peg during jets 1.0. Loved the hawerchuck years. In grade school, I used to listen to the jets post game shows on the radio turned down real low so mom wouldn't hear and make me turn it off - talking about school nights. Was living in fla when the jets moved to Phoenix - it still hurt even though I was here.

Maybe I'm not giving Enstrom enough credit. But I hate phaneuf and I think I would rather have him at 7 than Toby at 5 and change. I don't know.

Booooo
I was hoping for something more interesting!
Next time lie.
Something along the lines of.. .
During the Jets Florida road trip I was hanging out on the beach when a giant squid grabbed me and pulled me into the ocean. As I struggled to stay above water I silently uttered a plea to god to save me. In that moment a speedo clad Anthony Peluso freed me from the clutches of the wild sea beast. From that moment forward I devoted myself to the jets.

Doesn't that sound better?

Also that's a true story that happened to one of our MODS, Holden. You'll notice his avatar is Peluso with the caption of "saviour" for that reason.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Booooo
I was hoping for something more interesting!
Next time lie.
Something along the lines of.. .
During the Jets Florida road trip I was hanging out on the beach when a giant squid grabbed me and pulled me into the ocean. As I struggled to stay above water I silently uttered a plea to god to save me. In that moment a speedo clad Anthony Peluso freed me from the clutches of the wild sea beast. From that moment forward I devoted myself to the jets.

Doesn't that sound better?

Also that's a true story that happened to one of our MODS, Holden. You'll notice his avatar is Peluso with the caption of "saviour" for that reason.

Wtf? Are you kidding me? This actually happened? At least there is someone interesting on this board!

 

[Gm0ney]

Thanks.

Just want to clarify that I am not advocating trading Enstrom. He is too valuable to the jets and a lot of teams would love to have him. Defense is thin and buff moving up.

My whole point is that he ain't the $6m man IMHO. Talking trade value - no one will pay him that now. Maybe next year if he goes on a tear for the last half of the season and into next year, but not near term.

(Yes, I know he only makes $5.75m. Please don't flame me. I rounded off for effect.)

Well, the cap is going up to $71 million next year - I think a $5.75 million hit (8%) for a top pairing D is pretty reasonable. Yeah, he's maybe not built ideally for the game in the West, but there are lots of teams that would take him on at full value, just probably not this season because of the current cap.

Welcome, btw. Pardon our surliness! There's a bit of forum consensus on some topics that have been discussed a lot over the years - so there's sometimes a "not this again!" reaction when the consensus feels the matter has been settled. But hey, it's a fluid game and nothing stands still, so nothing is ever really settled...

 

[garret9]

For fun here's some info on our D and how they've performed with our forwards for this season...

View attachment 69861

The first image is the performance of that forward with that defenseman. 50% being the tipping point of bad to good.

The second image is the difference between the performance of that forward with that defenseman and without that defenseman...

Please note, usage effects apply and you'll have to keep them in mind for yourself when viewing results...
For example:
Avg QoC (high to low): Byfuglien, Enstrom, Clitsome, Ellerby, Trouba, Stuart, Pardy
So, although Pardy is mostly in the green, I wouldn't expect him to be if he started getting tough minutes like Enstrom (see how Ellerby fell when he went from soft to tougher minutes).