News: Vadim Shipachyov retires (official 11/9/17)

[Holtbyisms]

I dont believe I still responding to you but are really aware of reality here? Its a basically labour contract. You are not good enough, they send you down. Only acceptable excuse for him is his age. If you even refuse to go down, your chances to make NHL are getting close to zero because of shown attitude, possibility of breach of contract and team morale.

They already saw him in KHL, thats why they picked him. They dont need to see him anymore in KHL.Once they still have some concerns with players they logically send them down to improve on small ice in most cases. Especially when its all about 5-10 games. Its good you speak about leverage. I hope these guys also understand it also closing their door to NHL. Dont know what is all that leverage about when most of these guys easily find contract in Europe if they fail in NHL. They are employers and professionals at first. No one wants to be in AHL, it just depends how you handle that situation.

I lol'ed

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Your analogy falls apart pretty early. It's not like Ship was signed and never given a chance to play in the NHL at all (like you're salesman analogy). He had more of a chance than most players do, he wasn't good enough. He could have spent time in the AHL to prove he was a league above them and belonged in the NHL or he could go home. And to your worst case point, it's possible they thought he was NHL ready, but since the KHL is a different league than the NHL; when they finally saw him play they realized he wasn't good enough/wasn't ready/whatever. The money they gave him kinda showed they thought he was ready, and if so, why would they willing give that money to him if they were just going to put him in the AHL anyways? Why spend all that money and then waste it by having him in the AHL? Makes no sense to pay someone that much to not play for your NHL team, UNLESS that player just wasn't actually ready to play in the NHL.

Problem is, Ship isn't just some bum who was in the K, and then was just noticed now.

He was a top line player on SKA, very good playmaking center, and was expected to be a great player for Vegas.

I'm unsure where 3 games with less than 15 minutes of ice time shows his true 'potential'. If some posters really think that, your reaching towards delusional. The guy was practically a star in Russia

 

[pheasant]

“This is a roster move that’s not about performance,” McPhee said. “The three guys we sent down have all earned the right to be here, and we’ll get them here at the right time or as soon as we can.”

Even McPhee said it wasn´t that he wasn´t good enough for the NHL. Therefore he as well admitted they let inferior players stay on the rooster because they messed up with overvaluing players they risk when sending threw waivers. Think what you want about how Shipachyov handled it. I, as noted above, think he should have shown more patience. Especially when dealing with a new franchise who won´t function as well as others for a few years. But I can understand when a 30 yo player comes over and is upset because he didn´t make the team because the front office made a mistake. Sending him down again after 3x10 just seems stupid old school proudness from Vegas side. A high profile signing 30 yo that´s ment to be your main PP weapon doesn´t need seasoning in the minors for gods sake. He needs to be given at least 10-20 games. It would be like the Canucks sending down Mats Sundin after his third game because he only got one goal, or after his 9 first games when he only had 1 goal and 2 assists. Instead they gave the old geezer time and after 1,5 month he found his game. During that PO:s he was the Canucks best player by far.

Summoning: Shipachyov could have had more patience. But in the end either Vegas front office or pro scouts messed up big time. Because you don´t follow a 30 yo for a whole season and sign him to a big contract just to then realise he doesn´t play the way or on the level you hoped. The level Vegas messed up is not on the same level Shipachyov did.

In case people missed it, this needs to be said again and again. Here's a link to an interview with GMGM just after Ship was assigned to the AHL the first time (McPhee Speaks About Vadim Shipachyov's Situation In Press Conference - SinBin.vegas)

When asked if the move was "a hockey decision or a numbers decision" he says "That’s a numbers decision. [...] to give us the room that we needed to carry what we are carrying" He goes on to say in the interview "This is a roster move that’s not about performance. The three guys we sent down [Ship, Tuch, and Theodore] have all earned the right to be here."

Keep reading, guys!

When asked "Do you expect he will play any games in Chicago?" McPhee replied "No."

Click the link. Come on! Read it. This was never about performance! He was never expected to prove himself, or sharpen his game in the AHL. The GM didn't send Shipachyov down because he thought it was good for the team or good for the player. It was to keep other players from hitting waivers.

McPhee treated Ship like a piece of paper, instead of 30 year old family man who just moved to the opposite side of the globe. Ship had every right to bail on that situation.

 

[Smirnov2Chistov]

Golden Knights’ McPhee on Shipachyov: ‘Sometimes it just doesn’t work’

Wow! McPhee didn't hold back.

I love how it's a 180 from when he first signed to now

 

[pheasant]

I haven't seen a player treated so badly since the Luongo trade standoff, and when Dan Boyle was forced into accepting a trade by Oren Koules and Len Barrie. This was legendary mismanagement by McPhee. Lucky for him the team has been winning, and the inaugural season creates other talking points. Lot's of things helped to keep this situation relatively unnoticed. Under different circumstances, this mess should end a GM's career.

Edit:

Golden Knights’ McPhee on Shipachyov: ‘Sometimes it just doesn’t work’

Wow! McPhee didn't hold back.

I love how it's a 180 from when he first signed to now

Insane backpedalling here! What a rotten thing to do. You blame the player for a situation you caused? Well this is going to cost you fans. Starting with me. I've been posting in VGK threads. I have them favourited on my theScore app. I've watched a bunch of their games. Traded for their players in fantasy. I was super pumped about a new team, and was hooked for the whole process.

But you are a tool, McPhee! I can't stand you. And it's enough to sour me on the Golden Knights completely.

 

[sdf]

What a great career

 

[pheasant]

What a great career

Ya, a 2 time KHL Champion, 3 time All-Star with 4 season over PPG. Plus a gold, silver, and 2x bronze medal in the World Championships. I agree completely. Great career, and it isn't over.

His NHL stint is a footnote.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Well that was short American career for Shipachyov, Looks like he just never caught on here in the States to bad.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Well that was short American career for Shipachyov, Looks like he just never caught on here in the States to bad.

Yeah, it's a shame that JFK's presidency just didn't quite work out.

 

[pheasant]

Yeah, it's a shame that JFK's presidency just didn't quite work out.

If I could "like" this post a thousand times, I would.

Post of the year.

 

[Burke the Legend]

In case people missed it, this needs to be said again and again. Here's a link to an interview with GMGM just after Ship was assigned to the AHL the first time (McPhee Speaks About Vadim Shipachyov's Situation In Press Conference - SinBin.vegas)

When asked if the move was "a hockey decision or a numbers decision" he says "That’s a numbers decision. [...] to give us the room that we needed to carry what we are carrying" He goes on to say in the interview "This is a roster move that’s not about performance. The three guys we sent down [Ship, Tuch, and Theodore] have all earned the right to be here."

Keep reading, guys!

When asked "Do you expect he will play any games in Chicago?" McPhee replied "No."

Click the link. Come on! Read it. This was never about performance! He was never expected to prove himself, or sharpen his game in the AHL. The GM didn't send Shipachyov down because he thought it was good for the team or good for the player. It was to keep other players from hitting waivers.

McPhee treated Ship like a piece of paper, instead of 30 year old family man who just moved to the opposite side of the globe. Ship had every right to bail on that situation.

Yeah it seems like McPhee operated in bad faith. I'm sure the contract was signed with the understanding he would be a part of Vegas' roster so that's a pretty shabby way to treat the guy. It's not like McPhee can claim a surprise situation came up, this was done AFTER the draft so he knew exactly what his roster would be like and what kind of surpluses there would be. Seems like McPhee intended all along to send Shipachyov down and keep him there until some injury issue opened a spot, which I doubt is what he was telling the man when they negotiated the contract. This all reflects very poorly on McPhee who looks like a weasel.

 

[mouser]

Yeah it seems like McPhee operated in bad faith. I'm sure the contract was signed with the understanding he would be a part of Vegas' roster so that's a pretty shabby way to treat the guy. It's not like McPhee can claim a surprise situation came up, this was done AFTER the draft so he knew exactly what his roster would be like and what kind of surpluses there would be. Seems like McPhee intended all along to send Shipachyov down and keep him there until some injury issue opened a spot, which I doubt is what he was telling the man when they negotiated the contract. This all reflects very poorly on McPhee who looks like a weasel.

Uhm, Vegas signed Shipachyov seven weeks before the draft.

 

[Curufinwe]

Vegas got out of a mistake pretty much scot free in the end.

 

[belair]

I haven't seen a player treated so badly since the Luongo trade standoff, and when Dan Boyle was forced into accepting a trade by Oren Koules and Len Barrie. This was legendary mismanagement by McPhee. Lucky for him the team has been winning, and the inaugural season creates other talking points. Lot's of things helped to keep this situation relatively unnoticed. Under different circumstances, this mess should end a GM's career.

Edit:



Insane backpedalling here! What a rotten thing to do. You blame the player for a situation you caused? Well this is going to cost you fans. Starting with me. I've been posting in VGK threads. I have them favourited on my theScore app. I've watched a bunch of their games. Traded for their players in fantasy. I was super pumped about a new team, and was hooked for the whole process.

But you are a tool, McPhee! I can't stand you. And it's enough to sour me on the Golden Knights completely.

This is all that needs to be read from that article.

Shipachyov made it clear he didn’t want to play in the AHL, but there are plenty of NHL-caliber players who have to pay their dues in the minors before getting their break.

Alex Tuch and Shea Theodore are two of the most talented players on the Golden Knights roster, and both had to start the season in the AHL for the same waiver exempt reason Shipachyov was there.

Tuch went to Chicago and racked up four goals and an assist in three games. Theodore dominated with five goals and six assists in eight games with the Wolves.

Shipachyov pouted.

Scratching my head why people are still laying the blame on McPhee here.

 

[Bluesman]

This is all that needs to be read from that article.



Scratching my head why people are still laying the blame on McPhee here.

That's because you're missing/ignoring the part (as demonstrated earlier on this page) where McPhee said that:

1. It was not performance related, but roster related.
2. Ship was not going to be playing in the AHL.

Furthermore, comparing a 30 year old who has played (and excelled) against men for years in one of the better pro leagues to 20 year olds with minimal pro experience who went the traditional Junior/NCAA->AHL->NHL route is being disingenuous.

 

[Jablkon]

“This is a roster move that’s not about performance,” McPhee said. “The three guys we sent down have all earned the right to be here, and we’ll get them here at the right time or as soon as we can.”

Even McPhee said it wasn´t that he wasn´t good enough for the NHL. Therefore he as well admitted they let inferior players stay on the rooster because they messed up with overvaluing players they risk when sending threw waivers. Think what you want about how Shipachyov handled it. I, as noted above, think he should have shown more patience. Especially when dealing with a new franchise who won´t function as well as others for a few years. But I can understand when a 30 yo player comes over and is upset because he didn´t make the team because the front office made a mistake. Sending him down again after 3x10 just seems stupid old school proudness from Vegas side. A high profile signing 30 yo that´s ment to be your main PP weapon doesn´t need seasoning in the minors for gods sake. He needs to be given at least 10-20 games. It would be like the Canucks sending down Mats Sundin after his third game because he only got one goal, or after his 9 first games when he only had 1 goal and 2 assists. Instead they gave the old geezer time and after 1,5 month he found his game. During that PO:s he was the Canucks best player by far.

Summoning: Shipachyov could have had more patience. But in the end either Vegas front office or pro scouts messed up big time. Because you don´t follow a 30 yo for a whole season and sign him to a big contract just to then realise he doesn´t play the way or on the level you hoped. The level Vegas messed up is not on the same level Shipachyov did.

I dont oppose that. there might be even something personal in it, dont know. Some people just make general conlusion from this case in a way that russian or KHL guys going to NHL are not being interested in playing in AHL and thats probably how you should treat them etc. Thats in fact in complete contradiction to what I read or hear from for example present or past czech NHL players and to what I see in NHL. Once you come there with that atitude, you are ussually done when first problems appear.

Btw.Sundin was longtime respected NHLer when he played in Vancouver. Shipachov is no name in NHL. I agree you should treat these guys differently and gave them a chance to adapt. Same will go if BLues aquire Zaripov who is even older. On the other hand he is not first and not last guy comming to new enviroment as euro superstar and not being able to make it or start from the beginning.

They messed it more than he did. But thats still individual case from which you can not make some general statements whether players should go to AHL or not. You sign contract which clearly says what can happen. Michalek ended up in that league in 34?

It just doesnt look he knew everything he should know before he came. Might be his decision, I understand its different when you are 30, but he gave up on NHL after two issues. He might recognize neither manager nor coach liked him, maybe not, I dont know. Anyway maybe most people were wrong before the season.If VGK manager appeared to be right nad VGK keeps its pace to playoff then I would understand they even dont want to give him 30 games to adapt,not as 1st line center.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Vegas got out of a mistake pretty much scot free in the end.

Probably not truly scot free ultimately, though. They will lose opportunities to acquire talent for their team as a result of this. Starting with Shipachyov and Gusev. But they'll probably be counted out of the running on other such opportunities in the future as well. No idea why they thought keeping those extra minor league D around was a worthwhile tradeoff against that.

 

[Scott Stevens]

The guy was practically a star in Russia

Big fish, small pond.

B league success don’t mean beans in the A league.

 

[dracom]

Problem is, Ship isn't just some bum who was in the K, and then was just noticed now.

He was a top line player on SKA, very good playmaking center, and was expected to be a great player for Vegas.

I'm unsure where 3 games with less than 15 minutes of ice time shows his true 'potential'. If some posters really think that, your reaching towards delusional. The guy was practically a star in Russia

You're assuming that his star status in the KHL will equally translate into the NHL. Just look at some of the top point producers in the KHL, Lindey Vey, Dawes Nigel, Philip Larsen all are top point prodcuers in the KHL who couldn't make it here. He most likely was expected to be #1C for Vegas, the money they gave him shows that. But, he got here and didn't stand out compared to the other players.

As stated before, it's more than just the 30 minutes of ice time (more than some players ever get but whatever...) it's preseason and practices. There's zero reason for McPhee to sign this guy just in the hopes to keep him in the AHL and waste all that money. All I see from this is Ship not being good enough for the NHL, but no one wants to accept that.

 

[Albatros]

His 30 minutes he scored a goal and was +3, so the narrative about him playing abysmally bad is foolish anyway.

In fact his even strength GF/60 and GA/60 are both by far the best in the team.

 

[dracom]

His 30 minutes he scored a goal and was +3, so the narrative about him playing abysmally bad is foolish anyway.

In fact his even strength GF/60 and GA/60 are both by far the best in the team.

So it's unfair to judge a player based on just 30 minutes of ice time when he's bad, but it's totally fair to say he was great based on just 30 minutes of ice time. and a very scewed advanced stats. Got it.

When did we all agreed that +/- was a reliable way to judge a player and not a completely useless stat? Must have missed that memo.

 

[Senor Catface]

To early to talk about the Hall?

 

[KarmaPolice]

To me, this speaks of something personal. Either some issue he has (or the GM has with him). Whether it's attitude, or some other things maybe he imbibes in. I'm not going to speculate when I don't know, but it feels that way to me. You don't just send off a very skilled player because he had 3 bad (or good, or average, or great -- whatever) games in the NHL -- especially when they went after him hard to sign him in the first place (correct me if I'm wrong there). Makes no sense to me. Or maybe he just missed Russia too much, and wanted to go home.

 

[Soundgarden]

His 30 minutes he scored a goal and was +3, so the narrative about him playing abysmally bad is foolish anyway.

In fact his even strength GF/60 and GA/60 are both by far the best in the team.

Is it though? I actually watched him in the games he played and the pre-season, and while he made some nice moves he wasn't incredibly impressive.

Again, I think if Vegas had just one other Russian player in their organization it could have been better. I don't think Gallant was comfortable playing him due to the language barrier, IMO.

 

[Alessandro Seren Rosso]

All I see from this is Ship not being good enough for the NHL

He was better than Dadonov, or at least at the same level of Dadonov (I think Shipachyov was slightly better) and look at the season Dadonov is having.