News: Vadim Shipachyov retires (official 11/9/17)

[Chet Manley]

OK I just read he paid back a portion of his signing bonus. Dude had to pay them to leave lol. Was he threatened by a guy with a shovel and bag of lye?

If the relationship was over for whatever reason him, the proper thing would have been to trade him as long as it didn't hurt the team. AKA negative value/max %50 retained. Any other 30 year old player would have gotten a chance to be picked up on waivers and extend his NHL career. Any way out the VGKs had via trade would have been better than paying a portion of the contract through the waiver rules. Totally classless from the outside looking in. If he wasn't behaving the way they wanted, terminate the SPC and move on.

 

[Martin Skoula]

Bashing GMGM for a player that wasn't will to pay the price to play in the NHL seems like a reach . As a GM you can not let a player dictate what you are doing . It is simply you aren't good enough for the NHL you go to the AHL . Don't want to go there get the f out of here and we won't be helping you do it

What you're suggesting is like running a big firm, hiring your biggest competitor's top salesman at top salesman's salary, then telling him to go work his way up from the mailroom in a different state.

And then you're shocked when he goes back to his old high paying job where his family lives.

Best case: GMGM made a fool of himself trying to make the most of his waiver situation.

Worst case: GMGM committed 4.5 million dollars a year to a guy he wasn't even confident was an NHL player.

There's no situation where GMGM doesn't look bad here.

 

[mouser]

Why didn't they terminate the SPC if that's the case?

Vegas would have had to put Shipachyov on unconditional waivers before terminating the contract. If any other team claimed Ship then Vegas is on the hook for his $2m signing bonus they already paid this season.

Ship refusing to play in the AHL opened the window for Vegas to reclaim most of that $2m signing bonus.

 

[mouser]

so they tried trading him, obviously no one wanted his contract, so he decided to retire?

did i get that right? what a massive failure by vegas

Frankly I'm amazed McPhee was able to pull this off. Obviously the Shipachyov signing didn't work out for Vegas. Escaping the contract and getting most of the $2m signing bonus paid back is impressive.

Echos of Dean Lombardi getting rid of a contract.

 

[Chet Manley]

Vegas would have had to put Shipachyov on unconditional waivers before terminating the contract. If any other team claimed Ship then Vegas is on the hook for his $2m signing bonus they already paid this season.

Ship refusing to play in the AHL opened the window for Vegas to reclaim most of that $2m signing bonus.

Refusing to report happens. Wavier claims happen. The remedy to these things is in the CBA. And it's not forced retirement and having to pay off the team or you can't play at home. Signing bonus, earned upon date. Classless if that's how they run a team.

 

[dracom]

What you're suggesting is like running a big firm, hiring your biggest competitor's top salesman at top salesman's salary, then telling him to go work his way up from the mailroom in a different state.

And then you're shocked when he goes back to his old high paying job where his family lives.

Best case: GMGM made a fool of himself trying to make the most of his waiver situation.

Worst case: GMGM committed 4.5 million dollars a year to a guy he wasn't even confident was an NHL player.

There's no situation where GMGM doesn't look bad here.

Your analogy falls apart pretty early. It's not like Ship was signed and never given a chance to play in the NHL at all (like you're salesman analogy). He had more of a chance than most players do, he wasn't good enough. He could have spent time in the AHL to prove he was a league above them and belonged in the NHL or he could go home. And to your worst case point, it's possible they thought he was NHL ready, but since the KHL is a different league than the NHL; when they finally saw him play they realized he wasn't good enough/wasn't ready/whatever. The money they gave him kinda showed they thought he was ready, and if so, why would they willing give that money to him if they were just going to put him in the AHL anyways? Why spend all that money and then waste it by having him in the AHL? Makes no sense to pay someone that much to not play for your NHL team, UNLESS that player just wasn't actually ready to play in the NHL.

 

[Ciao]

What you're suggesting is like running a big firm, hiring your biggest competitor's top salesman at top salesman's salary, then telling him to go work his way up from the mailroom in a different state.

And then you're shocked when he goes back to his old high paying job where his family lives.

Best case: GMGM made a fool of himself trying to make the most of his waiver situation.

Worst case: GMGM committed 4.5 million dollars a year to a guy he wasn't even confident was an NHL player.

There's no situation where GMGM doesn't look bad here.

Mmmmm . . . not really.

It's always a gamble as to whether a player in any sport will perform as advertised. They're players, not machines.

For one reason or another it just didn't work out, and I don't fault McPhie for that.

You can't fault him for trying this, whether or not it succeeded.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

The "he had a chance and wasn't good enough" narrative only convinces me that the people pushing it have never seen Ship play, be it in the K or in the NHL, not that there is any actual validity to it. Vegas screwed the pooch. Period.

 

[vorky]

Do people not realize that Ship had more of a chance in the NHL than countless other players in the world? People can keep bringing up the 30 minutes in the NHL (completely ignoring preseason and practices), but that’s still 30 more minutes than most players ever get. He had his chance, if he REALLY wanted to play in the NHL he would do what other players do and report to whenever management sends you.

He’s completely in his right to not do it and go home, but need to stop putting complete blame on GMGM and none on the player who doesn’t want to do whatever he can to play in the NHL.

He came accross the pond, to be in Vegas and the NHL, not in Chicago and the AHL. KHL players, who come to North America, are not interested in the AHL. Why should they?

 

[dracom]

He came accross the pond, to be in Vegas and the NHL, not in Chicago and the AHL. KHL players, who come to North America, are not interested in the AHL. Why should they?

So they get to be the exception to the rule? Just because they wanted to come to the NHL. I don't understand why you want to give KHL players special privilege.

 

[vorky]

So they get to be the exception to the rule? Just because they wanted to come to the NHL. I don't understand why you want to give KHL players special privilege.

Because they have leverage, they know the NHL wants them and will do everything to get them (big $). The problem is that they are good paid at home (which can not be said about Swedes, Finns or Czechs), so not interested in the AHL (not only money, but riding the bus, prestige etc). Some of them still play a game or two in the AHL, look at Bereglazov, not happy in the AHL, coming back within a few weeks.

 

[Sol]

Regardless of who is at fault, McPhee hindered his chances with future international players. As a new organization, he should have been more accommodating. This does not look good on Vegas, and I'm sure international players would probably be a bit more hesitant on them.

 

[vanarchy]

 

[chokei]

It's just sad how this ended.

I don't understand McPhee. Why do you value the potential loss of an insignificant defender more than the service of a 2nd-line center or even potential 1st-line center? Especially when you invested over $4m per year in him you would want to test it extensively before you throw it away, wouldn't you?

But I also don't understand Shipachyov. Why does he retire and cripple his chances to get a chance with another NHL team that could need his services? When all it needed to make him wanting to go home was an incompetent manager in Las Vegas then his desire to succeed in the NHL cannot have been very strong in the first place.

This sheds a bad light on the practices in the NHL from the perspective of older foreign players who want to prove themselves later on in their career. It also sheds a bad light on these older foreign players because both the players and the GMs know that the players have it good at home and thus are more likely to bolt than young, unproven players when difficulties arise.

 

[vorky]

It's just sad how this ended.

I don't understand McPhee. Why do you value the potential loss of an insignificant defender more than the service of a 2nd-line center or even potential 1st-line center? Especially when you invested over $4m per year in him you would want to test it extensively before you throw it away, wouldn't you?

But I also don't understand Shipachyov. Why does he retire and cripple his chances to get a chance with another NHL team that could need his services? When all it needed to make him wanting to go home was an incompetent manager in Las Vegas then his desire to succeed in the NHL cannot have been very strong in the first place.

This sheds a bad light on the practices in the NHL from the perspective of older foreign players who want to prove themselves later on in their career. It also sheds a bad light on these older foreign players because both the players and the GMs know that the players have it good at home and thus are more likely to bolt than young, unproven players when difficulties arise.

Because the NHL does not have a mechanism how to terminate contract by a player (of course, if he does not want to pay money to a NHL club as buyout). This retirement was invented by Kuperman. If the NHL had international transfers to other leagues with money compensation (as in soccer), there would not be no problem.

The NHL does not care about European hockey, they are only interesting in one thing – the players. But can you imagine that if there was a transfer of leading FC Barcelona´s player to Mancherster United, the MU would pay a sum which is equal to the player´s one month salary? You even dont buy a player from Eastern Europe for such a marginal sum (in soccer – vorky). In hockey nobody has ever wanted to establish transfer rules. We have always heard only one thing – the NHL is the best and greatest league and nothing can be done. Have anybody tried to understand how it works in NBA or MLB? How much money they pay for European, Asian or Latin American players?

But paying for future stars of Kuznetsov´s or Laine´s calibre a sum which is two times lower than NHL player´s minimal salary or even leaving a player (to NHL club) for „thank you“ is normal?
KHL leadership asked me a few years ago how it is possible to make a transfer of a player with valid NHL contract to Russian club. Radulov´s way of „transfer“ from Nashville to Salavat Yulaev was unacceptable of course. I was sadden then, but I studied NHL-NHL CBA for next couple of months, it is 600 pages. Then I got an idea that if a player retires from the NHL, he is free to sign in his Motherland. I called to several influential agents to consult the situation. They said me that they heard about such a scenario for the first time. I said to the KHL leadership what I found out and a half o year later, SKA signed Ilya Kovalchuk. If the people want to do something, they will do it. If they don´t want, they will not.

Are NHL clubs willing to pay for transfers?
If there are proper rules, they will. In early 90´s, when horrible things happened in Russia, the NHL clubs directly contacted Dynamo Moscow to pay solid sums, at the time, to Dynamo for their players. I remember how Ottawa paid 700 000 USD for Alexei Yashin in 1992. It was a very good sum at the time. Average NHL salary was two times lower at the time. So, NHL clubs paid money for Dynamo´s players, but CSKA´s players simply run away. How much money did NHL clubs pay to Russian clubs for Tarasenko, Panarin or Bobrovsky? I am sure, in better case, it was „thank you.“

Igor Kuperman
Former Winnipeg Jets and Phoenix Coyotes official

 

[Jussi]

I've said it before but Kuperman is out to lunch on the realities of the player market in hockey. It's controlled by the players, not by the clubs. Clubs can't restrict palyer movement due to labour laws, both domestic and EU. Laws that weren't in place in the early 90's which is the timeperiod the clueless people often like to bring up. For example, Bosman hadn't happened then yet.

 

[feffan]

“He’s a skilled playmaker who we think can help us on the power play,” Golden Knights general manager George McPhee said Thursday. “He has been successful from a team standpoint, and individually, and our pro scouts had watched him throughout the year and he played well.”

Shipachyov, who was assigned to the AHL’s Chicago Wolves on Tuesday, has not reported to the Wolves since being sent down from the big club. McPhee said Monday that the designation of Shipachyov, Shea Theodore and Alex Tuch was more of a numbers issue, rather than personnel. McPhee said all three are NHL-caliber players and should be with the Golden Knights.

“I do not have a specific date when that will change,” McPhee said, “but we are working on things.”

“This is a roster move that’s not about performance,” McPhee said. “The three guys we sent down have all earned the right to be here, and we’ll get them here at the right time or as soon as we can.”

McPhee was asked about the report from KHL insider Alvis Kalnins, stating Shipachyov is upset with the organization and how he plans to go back to the KHL. McPhee said this is false because, “he’s under contract with us.”

Well, McPhee was clearly hoping to move a defenseman before game time, and he was clearly aware the Knights’ AHL affiliate was battling the Texas Stars, meaning the farm players would be close by with Vegas visiting Dallas for Game 1 of their season. But the plan appears to have backfired. Theodore, Shipachyov and Tuch are three of the Golden Knights’

These are actual quotes from when this problem started. So the guys in here saying Shipachyov had to prove himself and wasn´t good enough for the NHL are wrong. McPhee touhgt he was NHL-player when the season started, but messed up beacuse of "numbers issue".

And of course Shipachyov was more or less promised a spot to show himself off. It´s not like 30 yo players with a wife and three children just look around for the biggest number on a contract. The decision is made with the family. And the promise from Vegas most certainly was that they could get a house in Vegas and build a life there.

On that, I think Shipachyov should have had a bit more patience. Theres nothing else to be said about that. But I don´t blame him not being up for being traded to another team or riding the bus from a completley different part of the continent when his big family is trying to adjust to their new life. That´s not entitlement, as some are saying. That´s just not what he signed up for. He and his family had choosen to build a new life in Vegas. Schools for the kids had been found I would assume. I would guess most posters who think Shipachyov should have taken his time in the AHL are youngsters. There´s quite the difference coming over at age 19-25 with probably only yourself or maybe a girlfriend to think about or a family of four after 30. And the GM:s knows this. Vegas should have known this. Quite the difference for 21-22 yo Tuch and Theodore, who both where in the AHL last year, than a seasoned pro player that´s been playing pro since before the KHL was founded...

In the end, McPhee and his organistaion screwed up big time. They didn´t read the rule book good enoug. They overvalued the trade value for a bunch of their assetts. They seemingly didn´t have the same program in place to take care of players family when the players are sent down or on big road trips. And most imporant from an organisation point of view - they lost what could have been their biggest assett because they messed up with the rules and didn´t communicate enough with what should have been one of their biggest star. Nothing else to it. Because that energy of being the new team and showing everyone that they are better than everyone tought is already worn out in Vegas. The Vegas that lost 5/6 last games are closer to the truth of how good that team is. And now and forward a pattern breaker and great PP-player like Shipachyov is just what would have been needed to win a few extra games. And then trade by a deadline if the value is high. A player like Dadonov is a clearly inferior player to Shipachyov - and look how well he is doing when a NHL team acts like a NHL team.

On that, it´s quite a gamble to go to a team it´s first 2-3 seasons. The organisation is not yet set in it´s foundations. So Shipachyov choosing Vegas is his own fault. This sitatuion would most probable not have occured on the leauges other 30 teams. Or at least escalated this quickly.

In the end: One of the worst run situations of a GM/teams in years. Shades of Milburys Islanders days and the Gillis goalie-tandem.

 

[Jablkon]

He came accross the pond, to be in Vegas and the NHL, not in Chicago and the AHL. KHL players, who come to North America, are not interested in the AHL. Why should they?

I dont believe I still responding to you but are really aware of reality here? Its a basically labour contract. You are not good enough, they send you down. Only acceptable excuse for him is his age. If you even refuse to go down, your chances to make NHL are getting close to zero because of shown attitude, possibility of breach of contract and team morale.

They already saw him in KHL, thats why they picked him. They dont need to see him anymore in KHL.Once they still have some concerns with players they logically send them down to improve on small ice in most cases. Especially when its all about 5-10 games. Its good you speak about leverage. I hope these guys also understand it also closing their door to NHL. Dont know what is all that leverage about when most of these guys easily find contract in Europe if they fail in NHL. They are employers and professionals at first. No one wants to be in AHL, it just depends how you handle that situation.

 

[Ivan13]

McPhee is still a clown. Good luck signing KHLers in the future.

 

[elmaco]

Why not give him time to adapt to the nhl game instead of sending him down immediately? GMGM reeks if stupidity and ego, what a massive loss.

 

[bennitez7]

Hopefully this whole Shipachyov fiasco doesn't effect Gusev coming to the NHL. I am really interested in what he could do in the NHL.

 

[tmg]

Hopefully this whole Shipachyov fiasco doesn't effect Gusev coming to the NHL. I am really interested in what he could do in the NHL.

He might actually play ten minutes FOUR times before being forced to retire.

 

[LeHab]

First his agent requests seeking a trade but when a supposed trade is possible shipa says no?

Wont try to understand this any longer. Glad everyone is moving on.

 

[feffan]

I dont believe I still responding to you but are really aware of reality here? Its a basically labour contract. You are not good enough, they send you down. Only acceptable excuse for him is his age. If you even refuse to go down, your chances to make NHL are getting close to zero because of shown attitude, possibility of breach of contract and team morale.

They already saw him in KHL, thats why they picked him. They dont need to see him anymore in KHL.Once they still have some concerns with players they logically send them down to improve on small ice in most cases. Especially when its all about 5-10 games. Its good you speak about leverage. I hope these guys also understand it also closing their door to NHL. Dont know what is all that leverage about when most of these guys easily find contract in Europe if they fail in NHL. They are employers and professionals at first. No one wants to be in AHL, it just depends how you handle that situation.

“This is a roster move that’s not about performance,” McPhee said. “The three guys we sent down have all earned the right to be here, and we’ll get them here at the right time or as soon as we can.”

Even McPhee said it wasn´t that he wasn´t good enough for the NHL. Therefore he as well admitted they let inferior players stay on the rooster because they messed up with overvaluing players they risk when sending threw waivers. Think what you want about how Shipachyov handled it. I, as noted above, think he should have shown more patience. Especially when dealing with a new franchise who won´t function as well as others for a few years. But I can understand when a 30 yo player comes over and is upset because he didn´t make the team because the front office made a mistake. Sending him down again after 3x10 just seems stupid old school proudness from Vegas side. A high profile signing 30 yo that´s ment to be your main PP weapon doesn´t need seasoning in the minors for gods sake. He needs to be given at least 10-20 games. It would be like the Canucks sending down Mats Sundin after his third game because he only got one goal, or after his 9 first games when he only had 1 goal and 2 assists. Instead they gave the old geezer time and after 1,5 month he found his game. During that PO:s he was the Canucks best player by far.

Summoning: Shipachyov could have had more patience. But in the end either Vegas front office or pro scouts messed up big time. Because you don´t follow a 30 yo for a whole season and sign him to a big contract just to then realise he doesn´t play the way or on the level you hoped. The level Vegas messed up is not on the same level Shipachyov did.

 

[Holtbyisms]

McPhee has a history of bad relations with Russian players...He treated Alex Semin bad, year to year contracts even when he deserved more. Semin in his limited time is one of the greatest goal scorers in franchise history and I feel confident had he been treated better in DC, the place he wanted to be with buddy Ovechkin...he still be playing at a high level in DC.

McPhee Played bullshit games with Orlov and his contract and tried to keep him in the minors so his contract didn't kick in when he was way more than ready to be a full time NHL player.

McPhee is a joke, sorry Vegas that you ended up with him. He knows how to stockpile draft picks but blows the vast majority of the picks he makes. Good luck!