Raptors Discussion: v91 - NBA in restart plans

Discussion in 'Toronto Maple Leafs' started by Mess, Jun 24, 2020.

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  1. Mess Global Moderator

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    New thread to discuss the Raptors.

    Former thread: Raptors Discussion: - v90| Fighting through the injuries (but not Coronavirus. NBA Suspends season until further notice)

    ***********************MOD NOTE (as of Aug 27)***********************

    Note posted by The Nemesis

    The following Moderator Note was posted on the morning of August 27, 2020 in response to goings on in this thread resulting from discussion of NBA players' decision to boycott playoff games in the wake of ongoing social movements and protests.

    In the interest of not having a lengthy post at the top of each page, it has been put in spoiler tags.

    Please read it if you have not done so already.

    Every poster will be assumed to have read it if they continue to participate in this thread from the time this warning was posted and beyond.

    If you've visited this thread over the past few days and are doing so again right now you've no doubt noticed there are a lot of posts missing with regards to the boycotting of games.

    HF's rules are and have been for a long time that there is no political talk permitted except in instances where the subject matter has a hockey-related context to validate discussion (and only in the context of those hockey-related matters). While one could argue that "hockey-related" can be expanded to "basketball-related" in a permitted thread about basketball and not hockey, the contextual requirement remains.

    What started as a basic discussion on the nature of the boycotting of games and impact on the league quickly escalated into political screeds of a much broader and less sport-related scope.Value judgements of political movements and stances, calls to support/not support the league based on their chosen political ideology, comparative judgements of other sports leagues based on social response or responsibility, or outright and wholly political talk about political issues with basically only "it's what we're already talking about here" ties to even tether them to the concept of other sports. And that invited comments that violated other rules such as flaming or offensive content (which is why political talk has generally been forbidden across most/all of HF: because people can't handle it maturely enough to avoid it getting messy)

    In short, an inch was given and people took a mile. And in many cases a grossly inappropriate mile. And in some cases there seemed to be a belief that the existence of such content was tantamount to condoning it when the reality is more likely that the moderators have been distracted by other things and this thread flew under the radar over the last day or so.

    To that end, all political discussion over the last few days has been removed as disallowed, as per HF rules. Comments specifically about the boycott and how it might impact the remainder of the playoffs going forward have remained, but only if they had no political slant to them whatsoever. Yes this means some relatively benign posts that had mild political undertones have been removed, but leaving even a small amount which could restart discussion or invite "you deleted X but not Y" complaints wasn't an option.

    Moving forward there will have to be no tolerance for discussions of a political nature. Any further political posts will be removed. Anyone who violates the rules will also have to be removed from the thread. It's drastic and draconian, but the way things went over the last day or so kind of prove it's necessary if people aren't willing to stay in bounds. And HF, as a privately owned and operated business, is allowed to set whatever rules on conduct and content it wishes. If that includes disallowing political talk, then that's what the rules will be. I have to enforce them, and you have to abide by them.

    Sorry everyone. This is the way it has to be. I apologize for the long post and the aggressive restrictions. I don't generally like doing this sort of thing. But it reached a point where it was necessary. I hope it won't be any more necessary moving forward.

    Thank you for your understanding and cooperation.
     
    Last edited by moderator The Nemesis: Aug 27, 2020
  2. ACC1224 Keeping it real, someone has to.

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    Didn’t he throw games as well?
     
  3. sparxx87 Don Quixote

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    It’s crazy to imagine anyone who followed the team during this period has any time for Vince Carter.

    His highlight tape doesn’t really show his selfishness setting the organization back years. Doesn’t really talk about the Philly series where they had a real shot at the finals but he chose to leave the team and attend a superficial ceremony on the most important professional day of his life. They don’t show his final year where he was visibly dogging it, and the contrast to when he moved on to New Jersey.


    Vince has only ever cared about what’s best for Vince. That’s not a person that should be celebrated.
     
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  4. supermann_98 Registered User

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    I'd love to make the finals and hear LeBron and AD caught the rona and couldn't play. I'd laugh my ass off and celebrate the coronation of our second straight championship, and not give a DAMN what Steven A and Cowherd thought. I would revel in their tears and bathe in their distaste for all things Canada
     
  5. Kurtz Registered User

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    No.
     
  6. supermann_98 Registered User

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    If I'm a non-playoff team player I wouldn't even consider going back unless I was a bubble G-league player. Imagine a guy like Trae Young tearing his ACL for that crap? If I was a team president of one of those teams I would straight up tell the league my squad will not participate
     
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  7. Kurtz Registered User

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    Well, that's one side of the story, but it should also be noted that that year Vince was playing for an idiot coach who tried to fight him in the locker room, and was also playing with a garbage PG who held a grudge and refused to pass VC the ball during the game.

    I don't see the point of holding on to a grudge over a bad half-season. For example - at one point, Kobe had asked for a trade from the Lakers. MJ asked for a trade from the Bulls. Obviously, Vince didn't bring us a ring - but he might have saved our franchise from suffering the same fate as the Grizzlies.

    VC's numbers did improve significantly after the trade - but bears noting that he went from playing with Rafer Alson (who again, literally refused to pass him the ball) to Jason Kidd - one of the best pgs in the history of the game.
     
  8. LaPlante94 Registered User

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    Bad management set our team back, not Vince. You talk like you know the full story from both sides and act like Vince was the only problem back then when that's not the case at all.
     
  9. TheBeastCoast Registered User

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    I don't think there should really be any bad feelings about Vince at this point. It has been a long time and everyone has moved on. I do not think he should be lifted up on a pedestal and for people to gloss over what happened on his way out. It is incredibly easy to shift all the blame on bad management but he handled the situation like a child not a professional athlete.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  10. sparxx87 Don Quixote

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    Debatable. While he may not have actively tried to lose games, when the leader and best player of a basketball team starts coasting, it’s almost assuredly going to create a toxic environment and result in a lot of losing.

    Remember, Kawhi didn’t want to be a Raptor, nor did Kyle Lowry... but as professionals they came to work and played to win.


    No other franchise would be having this debate. The Raptors are just a young team who haven’t really had any superstars stick around... but now they have a title so there’s really no need to be giving participation ribbons.

    Kyle Lowry’s #7 will be the first retired jersey, and deservedly so.
     
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  11. ACC1224 Keeping it real, someone has to.

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  12. sparxx87 Don Quixote

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    Exactly.

    I’m indifferent about Carter. It was kind of cool seeing him play so long, I just reject the idea that he should be celebrated as a Raptor or have his jersey retired.
     
  13. sparxx87 Don Quixote

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    Jalen Rose tells the story a little differently. He said Mitchell came into the room and made a comment about how Carter spends more time on the trainers table than in practice. Vince got up in his face and apparently body slammed him onto the trainers table. Both individuals were in the wrong but saying ‘coach tried to fight him’ isn’t really a fair representation.

    Jalen Rose is a pretty credible and level headed individual with very little reason to misrepresent the situation.
     
  14. Kurtz Registered User

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    Oh, I agree during that stretch he probably didn't give it 100%, but the question was - "did he throw games?", and that's definitely a no.
     
  15. Kurtz Registered User

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    I do believe Rose, but I think you're misremembering his story a little bit: Jalen Rose details how Vince Carter bodyslammed Sam Mitchell in 2004
     
  16. sparxx87 Don Quixote

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  17. Suntouchable13 Registered User

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    Home court advantage out of the equation makes things more interesting. Teams can just go mano e mano.
     
  18. Cor I am a bot

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    Hey, now the refs can not call blatant fouls committed against us without worrying about our home crowd shitting on them.
     
  19. Bjindaho Registered User

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    Except that Alston was the backup. Jalen Rose was our PG.
     
  20. Kurtz Registered User

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  21. Bjindaho Registered User

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  22. Kurtz Registered User

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    No, I think you're thinking of the year before - where we didn't really have a pg and Jalen did a lot of the ball-handling.

    The year we're talking about, Alston was the pg and the primary offense initiator. You can easily check this by looking at the assist numbers for that year - Alston averaged 6.4 assists and Jalen 2.6.
     
  23. theaub 34-38-61-10-13-15

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    Scrimmage against Houston at 7:30 tonight
     
  24. thewave Fire Dubas

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    Toronto will have home court advantage wherever they are. There are a lot of Canadians down there
     
  25. hockeywiz542 Registered User

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  26. donghabs98 Moderator

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    Hopefully Fred didnt get banged up too much.
     
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