Proposal: Unsigned Erik Karlsson to Edmonton

Discussion in 'Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk' started by HailMcJesus, Apr 16, 2018.

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Is this trade fair?

  1. Yes

    28.0%
  2. No

    72.0%
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  1. cgf

    cgf FireBednarsSuccessor

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    "value of _____ unsigned" doesn't exist in star player trades. You don't make a big enough offer to have the high bid for a star unless you're expecting to sign them. Whether that means asking the other team for permission to talk to the player before ante'ing up your bid, or whatever. If you don't think he's going to sign with you, someone else will out bid you. Even if they have deluded themselves into thinking it's a sure thing he'll re-sign for them.

    So EK will be traded for a return commensurate with what a signed-EK would get...minus the value that Ryan takes out of the deal, since you just know Melnyk is going to tank EK's value by stapling Ryan to him.

    As for this trade, I think it's fair if EDM gets a third team to take on Ryan & Dorion believes in Pulju. 3 near-bluechip pieces & a sweetener is about what I expect them to get if they insist that they dump Ryan in the trade as well. The question is whether they'd want to go the multiple futures to rebuild with route or seek out more of a 1-for-1 for a young star like Leon who they could market.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  2. t0nedeff

    t0nedeff Registered User

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    Nobody is giving that much up for a UFA. Pronger didn't even come close to returning that and he was actually signed for multiple years.
     
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  3. t0nedeff

    t0nedeff Registered User

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    Oh look a Toronto fan making a dumb post color me surprised.
     
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  4. Hoverhand

    Hoverhand Leafs in 7

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    oh look another person thinking theyre going to get a generational defenceman for a #2 dman, a probably top 6 winger, and draft picks.
     
  5. Mr Positive

    Mr Positive Cap Crunch Incoming

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    if Karlsson agrees to waive his NMC for here, that is a good indication that he would re-sign (not a guarantee though)
     
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  6. Mr Positive

    Mr Positive Cap Crunch Incoming

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    no one will offer you the equivalent of Draisaitl, so we sure as hell won't
     
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  7. PatrikOverAuston

    PatrikOverAuston Laine > Matthews

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    Okay, if it’s that easy an offer to beat, do it.
     
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  8. ivanlwan

    ivanlwan Registered User

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    Only way Karlsson comes to Edmonton is if there is a contract extension in place and Drai goes the other way. Can't fit Mcdavid, Drai and Karlsson while building a good team around them. Not happening unless Sens take ALL 3 of take Sekera, Russel and Lucic which they obviously wouldn't.
     
  9. FightingIrish17

    FightingIrish17 Registered User

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    An unsigned deal for EK actually makes the most sense for Edmonton depending on how confident they feel on re-signing him. If they have some pre-contact with Karlsson to gauge interest in signing (not actually agreeing to terms) they can race other teams looking for a sign and trade and can do so without depleting the team of resources. It's a risk/reward thing for Edmonton but if they have confidence in keeping him, they should absolutely move for him at a lower cost. At full cost (Draisaitl+), it's not worth trading for.
     
  10. FightingIrish17

    FightingIrish17 Registered User

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    1) By the time his contract hits in, the cap will have jumped again... could be 84M+ at that point
    2) Edmonton would have a whole year to make him fit. There's no need to dump all 3 contracts at once. Sekera probably has value in a trade if he'd waive, and I'm betting Russell has value around the league, 4M x 3 isn't that bad to team not in cap hell.

    So, no, Draisaitl does not need to be in any deal. If push comes to shove, RNH has significant trade value and can clear cap space. If there's a Karlsson deal that makes sense for you, take it. You can figure out the cap afterwards (and I'm usually a huge proponent of pre-planning your cap situation way in advance).
     
  11. FightingIrish17

    FightingIrish17 Registered User

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    This. Oilers fans should feel confident in re-signing him, especially if he waives. Money, McDavid, hockey town, and a Cup contender are all factors Edmonton would have for him. If Edmonton is willing to pay him what he wants, I see no reason why he wouldn't re-sign. He lived in Ottawa so the cold doesn't scare him.
     
  12. ivanlwan

    ivanlwan Registered User

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    (1) Sure, it could be but who knows.
    (2) Maybe not all at once but outside of Sekera assuming he returns to form from last year, none of these players have value around the league. Russel is a good player but an overpaid #5. Lucic still has maybe 2 decent years left, not very attractive to other teams to have that anchor of a contract beyond that. We don't have the pieces to interest teams in taking these contracts. Our prospect pool is weak as it is so dealing draft picks and prospects wouldn't be smart.

    Our gm has been doing the whole figure out cap later approach and look where we are at lol. So we should absolutely be looking at future cap considerations in a deal like this where we would be adding most likely a minimum of $10m aav. Chia has already shown that he can't make good trades. Can you imagine when we're strapped for cap space and every GM around the league knows it? He would get ****ing reemed. Nuge and Russel wouldn't cut it because that would just cancel out money at best. And then we'd have to add 2 top 6 left wingers? Yeah not happening.
     
  13. t0nedeff

    t0nedeff Registered User

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    You're out of your mind dude. Why doesn't Toronto give up Reilly, Gardiner, a potential top 3 pick plus your best ****ing prospect for 1 year of Karlsson. I feel like idiots like you are just predisposed to turn into an idiot whenever you see anything Edmonton related.
     
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  14. Hoverhand

    Hoverhand Leafs in 7

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    Nobody is making a trade for Karlsson unless he's resigning this thread inherently is dumb.
     
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  15. Hoverhand

    Hoverhand Leafs in 7

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    this guy gets it
     
  16. BlueBaron

    BlueBaron Registered User

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    You felt left out and had to join them?
     
  17. cgf

    cgf FireBednarsSuccessor

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    Forgive this Avs fan if I've heard this too many times to put any value in this "argument". 'Nobody would give up a huge potential top pairing LHD ++ for a UFA O'Reilly.' 'Nobody would ever give up a young LHD stud +++ for a two-year-rental of Duchene.' etc.

    I've heard this song and dance before and it's bull**** with the kind of players that teams only trade for to sign long term. I think aking for Larsson as the NHL piece is too much, but Klefblom after this injury-ravaged season? That package is pretty fair with Klef involved as long as the Oilers get someone to take Ryan's contract from the Sens.

    E:
    Now the avs shouldn't be making a big move for someone EK's age at this point unless it's to use him as bait for someone who's a better fit for our core age-wise (like Draisaitl); but I think a fair offer for EK would be something like:

    Barrie (50% retained) + OTT 1st + Kerfoot / Andrighetto / Compher / Kamenev / Bowers for EK & Ryan; or Timmins + OTT 1st + conditional COL 1st + OTT 3rd + Kerfoot / Andrighetto / Compher / Kamenev / Bowers for EK & Ryan.

    And the OP feels like a similar package. OTT 1st > EDM 1st, Barrie > Klefblom, Pulju > Kerfoot + OTT 3rd; or OTT 1st > EDM 1st, Timmins + COL 1st > Klefblom, Pulju > Kerfoot + OTT 3rd. With similar overall value.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  18. t0nedeff

    t0nedeff Registered User

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    Thats great and all but you must have missed where buddy said it would take Klefbom and Larsson. Even without that dumb post no one will ever pay that much for a single player.
     
  19. cgf

    cgf FireBednarsSuccessor

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    I did indeed. Klef & Larsson is excessive, but the OP is Klefblom/Larsson; which is around what they should get for EK given that Melnyk is anchoring Ryan to him.
     
  20. yababy

    yababy Registered User

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    Wait until he experiences living in Edmonton for a winter.. he could go "Pronger"
     
  21. Hoverhand

    Hoverhand Leafs in 7

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    with the Ryan anchor its 1 or the other.
    Without the Ryan anchor, which is what the OP proposed it'd be Larsson +Klef.

    Best defenceman since Lidstrom.
     
  22. McJesusSaves97

    McJesusSaves97 Registered User

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    Don't even want to trade for an unsigned Karlsson, the cost would be too great to justify it. I don't trust a regular Chiarelli...a desperate one is terrifying :skeptic:
     
  23. AvatarAang

    AvatarAang Registered User

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    yea lets compare trade returns from a player who played like 10 years ago great logic man.

    and again, no one is trading for Karlsson without re-signing him on the spot or having an extension in place. so stop it with that UFA nonsense, as if any team is going to give up high end assets for him and then let him walk give me a break.
     
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  24. LucicDestroyedHaley

    LucicDestroyedHaley Registered User

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    JMO, but if Melnyk doesn't want Karlsson because he is going to make too much dough, I cannot see him wanting Draisaitl at 8.5, which isn't bad, but still probably too rich for Ottawa.

    I could definitely see a package from Edmonton involving some of the following: RNH, Klefbom, Puljujarvi, 2018 1st, Yamamoto, Nurse, Bear. I don't see us moving Drai tho.

    I actually do think we make good trading partners, and could seriously see something happening.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  25. branch

    branch Registered User

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    What are you basing this on. Melnyk will pay for a good player. He's paying Bobby Ryan at 7.5. Little chance a deal gets done without Draisaitl. It's a deal breaker. How can EDM fans expect to get the best D in the league without someone like Draisaitl coming back. It makes no sense.
     

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